Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrysc reveals new arena season 4 rating requirements and rules
by Daniel Whitcomb 
Apr 22nd 2008 at 1:40PM
Drysc has just posted what may soon be known as the death knell of "welfare epics," announcing new arena season 4 rating requirements for the brutal gladiator gear that extend not only to the shoulders and weapon, but to many other pieces of gear as well, even to honor-purchased gear. We've seen some of the gear leaked recently, and some of the ratings requirements leaked a bit earlier than that, but now we have the official whole picture. Check out the word of Drysc after the jump.
When Season 4 begins, Season 3 items will be reduced in personal and team arena rating requirement to:
Shoulders: 1950
Weapon: 1800
The new Season 4 items will have the below personal and team arena rating requirements:
Shoulders: 2200
Weapon: 2050
Head: 1700
Chest: 1600
Legs: 1550
Gloves: none
Off-hand: none
In addition, some of the Season 4 quality items that will be purchasable with honor will also carry a personal and team arena rating requirement:
Boots: 1700
Ring: 1650
Bracers: 1575
Belt: none
Necklace: none
Trinket: none
The Season 2 items, which will move to the honor system when Season 4 begins, will continue to have no rating requirement.
Drysc also announced some new arena rules for the upcoming season:
1. If a character's personal rating is more than 150 points below the team rating, they will earn points based on their personal rating instead of the team rating.
2. If the average personal rating of the players queuing for a game is more than 150 points below the team's rating, the team will be queued against an opponent matching or similar to the average personal rating.
Together, these rules (which Tom Chilton alluded to but did not reveal in a recent interview) should mean that a person cannot simply ride a high rating team to victory, but will instead need to fight their way up the ladder to gain points regardless of what team they join.
It looks like the era of "welfare epics" may well be over now. With these new requirements, teams will have to genuinely work hard to get the gear they desire, and it should hopefully lead to a bit less resentment between the PvE and PvP factions. These new rating requirements, combined with the new rules meant to prevent people from buying points, should also hopefully lead to fairer arena games between equally geared teams, at least within another season or two.
With the revelation of these rules, the speculation of the start of the new arena season can probably begin in earnest as well. Saving your points (or even your honor) for Season 4 may not be as effective anymore though, if you can't also muster up the ratings to purchase the gear.
Filed under: Items, Blizzard, News items, PvP, Battlegrounds, Arena
Reader Comments (Page 6 of 7)
Rinor Apr 22nd 2008 9:32PM
This seems like a death knell not for casual epics, but for casual players. This is the first time since I've been playing that I've felt inspired to Stop playing. I regularly play PVP and Arena, because I know, even if I'm not good, I can get some reward for it. I am NOT a good player, but I enjoy playing. And so, while I approve of the changes to stop team-buying, the ratings seem excessive for a casual build who plays for fun, not to win. If I wanted to obsess over my build, and my friends builds, I'm sure I could raise our rating, but this change to the arena gear will likely just make me stop playing arena period, and likely stop playing my main until WotLK.
Bob Apr 22nd 2008 10:56PM
Blizzard is really screwing themselves. PvP BGs and arena are the casual Endgame. They will lose a lot of players. Making BG gear require arena ratings? What kind of crap is that?
jtrain Apr 22nd 2008 10:42PM
I've read every post in this thread, and responded to some. Let me summarize the feelings of those that are upset over this change. They fall into a few categories:
1.) This requirement creates a gear gap that is insurmountable. Those starting out don't have a snowball's chance in hell of competing.
Answer: Since when are those starting out SUPPOSED to compete with those that have been at it a while? You're supposed to lose! Otherwise the players that have made it a priority to improve their ranking would have absolutely no incentive to keep playing. It's not impossible people. Get your s2 gear, a few pieces of s4 that have no rating requirement, and work at it! You'll get better, and eventually your rating will go up.
2.) This change means I can't go in w/ my friends, or I can't go in with non-traditional groups, etc. It kills the casual.
Answer: So by this logic, I should expect to bring my newb friends to a 25 man and pwn, or I should expect to spec any way I damn well please for a raid and pwn. Sorry folks, doesn't work that way. Get your casual friends to practice, and get in a group that works. This is no different than the sacrifices that pve'ers make to succeed in end game raiding.
3.) I'm a casual with X amount of time to play, and this kills any incentive I had to play arenas, even though I was losing. If I can't get the best gear with my limited play time/skills, why bother?
Answer: Ahh, welcome to life. You can't simply show up and expect the best of the best. It takes sacrifice, practice and willingness to learn from your mistakes and improve. Just as everyone isn't "special", not everyone can win just by being present. To the victor go the spoils.
Let's make this simple: The majority of players will be able to get decent pvp gear by doing what they always done, regardless of skill. To get the BEST pvp gear, you have to be at the top. I'm still at a loss why this is a bad thing, unless everyone that is qq'ing about it expects the best in life to be handed to them simply for being there.
JD Apr 22nd 2008 11:45PM
"Let's make this simple: The majority of players will be able to get decent pvp gear by doing what they always done, regardless of skill. To get the BEST pvp gear, you have to be at the top. I'm still at a loss why this is a bad thing, unless everyone that is qq'ing about it expects the best in life to be handed to them simply for being there."
Which is basically saying, it doesn't matter how skilled you are in playing in arenas. If you don't outgear your opponents, you DO NOT DESERVE A HIGH RATING. Is it seriously like, THAT tough to realize how much of a stupid thing that is to do, to make something the most accessible to the people who have simply been at it the longest, rather than, I dunno, making it most accessible to people with actual skill and talent? I see all this talk about welfare epix yet the people that get the good loot don't need the skill to get it because they had their 70s long enough to get an edge on doing more arenas and already outgear everyone in their battlegroup. That is why it is a bad thing.
And not for nothin', if arenas were all about simply getting the best rating by being dicks and going with the easiest PvP combo in the book, why even bother making arena gear for other classes? I don't think it's a coincidence that warriors appear to be the most common class in full S3 gear, all the while I've never run across a single clothie, or a shaman or hunter with a comparable set.
So, I apologize for feeling that for having a better idea at how to play than most teams me and my friend run into, I deserve more than getting stunlocked an entire fight with mace procs and having my gear absorb a smidgen of damage because of getting beat on by two people who decided they were bored and wanted to remake their 2000+ rated team and see how nice it would be to coast all the way back up. Because yeah, someone sure would have a chance in hell of beating a team like THAT.
jtrain Apr 23rd 2008 9:04AM
The only thing I agree about in your post is the part about a 2000+ team remaking itself just to take advantage of 1500 rated teams. Other than that, you're bitching about not being competitive with the top of the pvp "progression", which is teams decked out all in s4.
Again, if you want to take gear checks out of the equation, you need to find another game. WoW is about gear, plain and simple. Its the only way people really have to advance their characters. If you want to make pvp about skill only and not gear, go play Guild Wars. Otherwise you're going to have to accept the fact that those who are both good at pvp and have been at it a while will outgear you, and thus most likely beat you regularly.
It's mind boggling how people expect to instantly be competitive with s4 geared teams right out of the gate, and qq when it appears that gearing up to challenge them will be a long, hard road. It's like dinging 70 and expecting to waltz into BT and down Illidan, and bitching about how unfair his gear is.
Lachlan Apr 22nd 2008 11:06PM
People need to put this in perspective.
Yes, I will never get any S4 other than the gloves and the offhand. I just hit 70 2 weeks ago, I'm still working on getting S1 gear, no way given the requirements + the gearing that others will do that I can "catch up" in S4.
But S4 will run into WotLK. I'll be leveling to 80 before I could have gotten more than a few pieces of S4 by losing regularly. The next time I'm likely to be doing arena to pick up my easy epics is when I hit 80, and none of this gear is interesting anymore. It would be cool if I could leapfrog into competitive gearing this season, but apparently not possible.
Also, not the end of the world, we'll have better things to do soon :)
Bob Apr 22nd 2008 11:13PM
Not really.
Because S5 will keep the high rating requirements and you won't be able to get it.
fLUx Apr 22nd 2008 11:13PM
No way I can get a 2200 rating...
matt Apr 23rd 2008 12:05AM
S5 will get high requirements, S4's will decrease, S3's will be removed, and so on. So there'll always be a season you can buy without rating.
For "casuals", this will actually put you on a more even footing with people who can afford to grind BGs forever. Now they can't fill out their set the instant S4 comes with all their saved up honor. You'll also have fewer point buyers in full S3 gear to worry about.
Once you DO hit 1550, 1575, etc., it'll be easier for you to stay at that rating, since you'll get the new gear.
(Conversely, of course, it'll be quite hard to break into 2050, since everyone above you will have a better weapon than you. Oops.)
bdew Apr 23rd 2008 2:54AM
From TFA: "It looks like the era of "welfare epics" may well be over now. With these new requirements, teams will have to genuinely work hard to get the gear they desire"
And also it looks like, unless you are an sl/sl warlock, resto druid, ms warior, {insert 2-3 other class-specs here} you will have to reroll, level to 70 AND ONLY THEN genuinely work hard to get the gear you desire.
gg bliz, fuckin stupid.
Unicron Apr 23rd 2008 4:00AM
Hunters can no way get those high ratings...
So fix the classes first B4 you up the ratings.
Again one of those stupid Blizz moves
bumble Apr 23rd 2008 5:19AM
Arena fails as an esport given the emphasize being on class composition and gear, and only secondary on a players abilities.
These changes make me sad in regards to Battlegrounds where I fear the situation will again quickly deteriorate to how it was at 60 when players with AQ40 items and thus vastly outgearing the average player would have a guaranted win.
I'd be happy if Arenas are taken out of the game entirely and restricted to arena-only realms.
PJ Apr 23rd 2008 10:39AM
God, I'm so tired of all you idiot children how post here and on the official boards about "welfare epics" just because you have no life and all day to play doesn't mean its the same for adults with lives - as it is it can take MONTHS to get something. Now I know many are idiots with low IQs who are unable to understand that and think everybody can get it in a few hours because they can do so, I just wish they would shut up and leave the damn game.
tyler Apr 23rd 2008 12:15PM
I would only say that I think the rating total is a bit steep. In my Battlegroup this means that roughly 0.4% of 2v2 players can qualify for shoulders, and a whopping 1.3% for weapons. It would actually be possible to achieve a Gladiator title and not qualify for shoulders. That seems a bit ridiculous.
I think qualification for certain gear has merit, but let's at least put it somewhere in the realm of possibility!
Maybe rather than having to qualify for gear they should have +stam tokens that you can get with various ratings these would give your gear a specific and recognizable aura (and would add +stam to the item, meaning it would not cancel enchants, glyphs, etc). This would accomplish what they are trying to do without giving such a small percentage of the PvP populus the only chance at the gear.
Sinthar Apr 24th 2008 4:17AM
Hi folks - 1st time ive ever posted here.
For my contribution, why doesnt Blizz introduce 'league' tables, based on equipment. The newbies to arena, S1 geared, S2 geared etc can compete against ppl in the same league, which will eliminate the problems with highly geared people cruising to victory every time in a new team. The fights would be (more) even, and more enjoyable all round.
BTW please note i AM a mage - so terrible at PVP in arena. The wow insider article had it right. I enter the arena, i cast Frostbolt, i die. I will never see the upper end gear, but dont begrudge others with the skill to do so. I DO wish blizz would level the playing field, but tbh i dont see how that is possible to do for every class and race. They are intriniscally uneven, as they perform different 'jobs', in different ways, some suited better to pvp than others. I also am a 'casual' rather than a hardcore, (yes i am adult with some real life commitments). I play the game for fun, and the social aspects, i enjoy PVE mostly, but like some PVP to get the blood really pumping. I dont expect to compete seriously with hardcore pvp'ers, but neither do i like going into the arena with my two hunter mates (so yes we know were gonna be in the low end ratings wise) and being unable to do ANYTHING to the full S3 ppl who just made a new team up. - Oh and i also think ppl who win trade should have all their PVP gear deleted - at least!
Now tbh from what i have seen im expecting a load of flaming coming my way. All i ask is ppl just to think about my 'league' systems - after all it works in RL with most major sports - why cant it work here? In my humble opinion this MAY help redress SOME of the problems. Your opinion may differ, and you are entitled to it, like i am entitled to mine. Critisise me, advise me - all comments welcome. Comments like l2p, idiot, etc will not bear any weight with me thou, as as far as im concerned if you have to resort to insults, then you have already lost the arguement. Give me logical reasoned arguements, and ill respect your position (and you), and consider it, and may well reconsider my stance too.
pudds Apr 23rd 2008 12:44PM
Blizzard released PR requirements on S3 items and I hoped they'd realize their mistake.
Drysic posted that S3 would probably retain a lower PR when S4 hit and I hoped it would change before release.
Leaked reports showed S4 with higher PR requirements than before, and I hoped they were fake.
These new PR requirements are yet again moving in the opposite direction of PvP balance, but while I once again hope they'll reconsider, I'm firmly expected to be disappointed.
Wrong move Blizzard, yet again. You say you want the arena's to be an e-sport? Stop tying balance to performance. Whether its 1 HP or 1000 HP, 1 resilience or 100, teams should not be at a gear disadvantage when entering the arenas.
Truncheon Apr 23rd 2008 5:12PM
In response to the people claiming that this is a return to the old PvP grind, and that it hurts Mr. I have a Job so I can't play 24/7.
That is nonsense. You can play 10 arenas a week and get more points or higher rating than someone who plays considerably more. The arena rating system is one that factors in the fact that not everyone can play as regularly as others, you gain or lose points based on performance. The old system required nothing else but participating in BG's all day. You could not become a Grand Marshal or High Warlord even with exceptional skill as a more casual gamer.
In fact I would say that the requirement of rating on honor gear will actually protect the skilled casual player since they will not see themselves utterly outgeared by someone who has just Afk'd all day in AV.
Regarding gear balance in arenas, the bottom line is people should not be geared the same/equally. The Arena tournament realms serve this purpose. Collecting/choosing equipment is an important feature of the game throughout, in providing variation, advantage and disadvantage. This can be seen not just in PVP, but in PVE and even the leveling process. You succeed in completing a quest you gain a reward that someone who didn't do it doesn't get.
I'm glad to see this change and I think its right that players PvP accomplishments will be fairly reflected in the gear they get. It works at all levels of arena, just as not every player should be able to get Gladiator title at the highest rank, not everyplayer should be able to get say S4 chest that is a mark of mid-achievement.
By extending the ratings requirements for the new gear from 1550-2220, it gives an incentive and gear reward for more ppl playing arena at lower ratings not just the elite high rated 1850+
kataklinski Apr 24th 2008 1:42AM
I don't understand whats the big fuss is all about?
When S4 hits:
1/5 S4-Brutal Armor Set can be obtained with arena pts and no PR restriction
3/6 S4-Brutal Belt/Neck/Trinket can be obtained with honor and no PR restriction..
4/5 S3-Vengeful Armor set can be obtained with arena points and no PR restriction.
6/6 S3-Vindicator Belt/Ring/Bracer/Neck/Trinket/Boots can be obtained with honor and no PR restriction
5/5 S2-Merciless can be obtained with Honor and no PR restriction.
And you can have the S2 Weapons of your choice with Honor and no PR restriction.
If you have the top line of all these "Welfare Epix" available you will be in the 420+ resilience bracket if properly gemmed and enchanted -
You will be:
100% Superior to T5-T6 geared raiders going into PvP.
Only 5% of the entire battlegroup in full S4 will clearly outgear you and how often will you meet them?(and even if they do, they only beat you by some attackpower/spelldamage and stamina - not in terms of resilience which evens out even in full S1)
You will be competitive with approx 45-65% of the battlegroup with mixed gear ranging from S1 to S4.
And clearly superior to > 30% of those who do not have full PvP gear sets.
In what way are these new Blizzard requirements the end of the PvP world?
The same mode applies when S5 hits town. The casuals will still be competitive from the previous season items still available.
Twigs Apr 24th 2008 1:55AM
Arena is ruining WoW. I don't mind the end of welfare epics, but this change is basically the return of the old honor grinds: Ranks have just been replaced by arbitrary Rankings.
If they want to enhance the PvP experience, there should be more Battlegrounds, or world events that pit each faction AGAINST each other, not working WITH each other, ie. the new Shattered Sun dailies.
biglou Apr 24th 2008 9:33AM
I dont see what the big deal is. I hate doing Arenas but I love doing the BG's. Now Ill be able to trade in my S1 for S2 as there will be no arena requirement for that. That will make me more competative in BG's and I still wont have to do arena. And then all the hardcore raiders will start QQ'ing about how the new S2 "welfare" epics give an unfair advantage to PVE'ers because they're pissed off that some obscure loot rule kept said PVE'er from getting the epic whatchamacallit from Kara even though that boss was wasted for the 32nd time even quicker than the 31 times before that (ill bet you that when that boss says he is going to cast a and you all are going to ).
Sorry...a moment of tourettes. Anyway, S2 will be an upgrade for me. If I want the S3 or S4, Ill have to enter the Arena. The whole concept of a lawsuit is rediculous. "Having to do arena to get gear...im suing" is about as rediculous as "Im suing because statistically Prince should have dropped by now and he didnt...you are depriving me of my gear".