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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsForum post of the day: Keep your E-sport out of the Battlegrounds
by Amanda Dean 
Apr 23rd 2008 at 8:46PM
Drysc's announcement of new gear requirements for season four has not been entirely well received. Doorf of Maelstrom is downright upset with the addition of arena point requirements to battleground honor gear. In a thread entitled "Keep your E-sport out of the Battlegrounds" feels that this new mechanic is unfair and forces people to play in the arena in order to truly enjoy the battlegrounds.
Several posters, like Evennia of Feathermoon agree that arena and battleground are separate PvP systems. The forums have many threads today expressing outrage at this change. Dottie of Sargeras believes that this change will be the subject of a lawsuit since it is limiting people's access further to certain aspects of the game. This is an extreme extension of the argument that all players should have access to all game content. Still others, such as Oded of Draenor are once again calling for a separation between traditional WoW and the arena Esport.
Don't get me wrong, I love to play in the arenas, but I agree that the arena and battlegrounds should be treated as separate systems. I suppose the change could be an attempt to refocus folks on their PvE goals. By making battlegrounds less fun and requiring arena participation, many casual PvP players may pursue the PvE environment.
Filed under: Items, Blizzard, PvP, Forums, Battlegrounds, Arena
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 6)
Badger Apr 24th 2008 9:45AM
Jago: That was very well said. When I replied earlier, I wasn't really thinking in terms of Blizzard's attempts to "blur the lines" between gameplay mechanics, but that does make sense as a major source of frustration.
wyrd Apr 24th 2008 1:22PM
Finally someone doing talking sense. Just because the best gear requires arena, doesnt mean you have to participate in arena.
Stan Apr 24th 2008 12:15AM
All this complaining is silly. Want your voice heard? Leave the game.
However, I've noticed one point seems rather ironic: "WoW is not PVP."
Okay, no, that's not ironic, it's borderline stupid. It's most certainly ignorant.
Warcraft was an RTS. Forget the lore for a moment. To many, the best part of playing Warcraft were the satisfying, yet fleeting, moments of celebratory mocking after having beaten the hell out of friends in battle. Some radicals in our society have the temerity to even suggest this style of gameplay as "player vs player." SHOCKING!
WoW is based on this RTS that these crazies have aged happily enjoying. Sure there are legions who get a fantasy boner over the obscenely ret-conned "lore" of the game. But, as previously stated, there are those who just want to beat the hell out of their friends in battle.
Neither is wrong, and sometimes, they can co-exist.
What is definitely wrong is being an elitist douche-bag and whining about how people who haven't sacrificed a social life and proper hygiene are getting epics.
If this is the sort of thing that matters to you. I beg you, for your sake and the sake of your potential progeny, reconsider your priorities.
Druid dude Apr 24th 2008 12:16AM
Standing in between lazy players and their nearly free loots is a dangerous and scary place to be! The Welfare Epic thing has been a severely broken reward system for a long time, and Blizzard is finally taking steps to bring it in line with a much more reasonable effort and skill to reward ratio.
gareth Apr 24th 2008 5:47AM
Nope, that is not the problem.
The problem has been sneaking up for a long time now since arena gear first appeared - unless you have arena gear you cannot compete in battlegrounds. And even worse now you must do arena to get that gear, since I think arena is about as exciting as fighting in a small box with 1/2 your abilities disabled it means that people like me cannot do battlegrounds any more.
Although to be honest I don't think I could go through another BG grind to get enough resilience gear again - I did it once but trying it again on my warlock and getting 2 shotted by everything out there was just too painful and boring.
shermon15 Apr 24th 2008 12:28AM
Personally I think the rating system for certain weapons and armor really hurts many players. I play BGs, raid, and do arena. The personal rating system is equivalent to telling a raiding guild they cannot wear a piece of tier 6 because they cannot kill some boss fast enough or were the 25th guild on the server to down the boss, so they dont qualify.
Just get rid of the rating system. If someone has the dedication to accumulate the points for some of the gear, let them have it!
Diabla Apr 24th 2008 12:33AM
That argument about "accesible to everyone" is complete and absolute BullS.
When attuments got removed and now "all the scrubs" can get in.... People bitch.
on the other hand..
Somethings put up where people that *actually* pvp are the ones are going to be able to access the pvp gear and pve'ers can't completely afk their way to wearing the same gear... People bitch.
I think folks need to make up their minds.. is the game supposed to be "accessible" or not?
As it's been argued to me, this won't stop Afk'ing in BG's but with the new season, you can afk to Honor cap and still not get all the items available, you'll have to do *something* (arena) to earn wearing that pvp item and it can't be called "welfare" anymore. Folks are all up in arms but you know what? Arena and BGs are both PvP-focused so connecting them in some way is not at all out of line by Blizz. I, as someone who has only PvP'd if there was absolutely nothing else to do shouldn't *ever* expect to basically be handed items just for showing up.
No one else should either...
Daryl Apr 24th 2008 10:43AM
I don't pvp and I object to spell/talent changes for pvp balance purposes.
For example, the mage's Ice Block will impose a 30 second Hypothermia debuff. Why?
You can use Cold Snap to zero the CD of Ice Block so you can reuse it again, but then there's a 8 min CD on Cold Snap. Therefore why introduce the Hypothermia debuff?
ANyway that's one example, other classes can come up with lots of other examples.
Rydo.
Melenor Apr 24th 2008 12:41AM
I hate hate HATE arenas but am on speaking terms with battlegrounds. It sucks not being able to get S3 or (soon) S4 gear unless I bite the bullet and get those minimal 10 games in. It's easier said than done for people like me - there's just something very un-fun about the whole process. I really wish they'd make the gear honor- and arena-point based somehow. I have full S1 on two characters, perhaps some S2 pieces coming up - but thanks to those arena requirements, I'm afraid I'll never live the high life of PvP gear.
roguedubb Apr 24th 2008 1:20AM
Then maybe you're not meant to.
Dro Apr 24th 2008 2:39AM
I gotta agree with the poster.
There are other ways to deal with this, you know.
How about NOT rolling over the gear that requires ratings?
Eh? Eh?
People can BG is season 2.
Hardcore Arena people can stop crying.
BG people can stop crying.
Everyone can go on their merry way and play the way they want to.
I'm personally not irritated that gear has requirements, I'm irritated that to get BG gear, you have to do ARENA. If I wanted Arena gear, I would do Arena.
Seriously, just keep said gear arena gear and be done with it.
Problem solved.
Jarsyl Apr 24th 2008 12:43AM
Sorry, but top-level arena gear is not meant for the player that complains about the personal rating requirements for it. If having to play to 1700 sounds too difficult to you, then you don't deserve the most powerful pvp equipment in the game.
LAWL Apr 24th 2008 12:52AM
Whos said anything about arena gear?
These is about honor gear.
Badger Apr 24th 2008 9:50AM
LAWL is right. Again, this isn't a problem with the Arena system. This is a problem with the unnecessary fusion of the Arena and Battlegrounds systems.
wyrd Apr 24th 2008 1:29PM
Simple solution. Stop making arena gear purchasable by honor points at all. Seperate the systems entirely. Let BG players go back to just getting a nice set of blues and being stuck with that. All this bitching about not being able to get the best ARENA gear thro a simple BG is fucking stupid. If you want areana gear, guess what, you have to play in arena. You still have it better than ever before when it comes to BG honor rewards. Any idiot can play enough bgs and end up with full epic gear.
roguedubb Apr 24th 2008 1:19AM
Bunk, the lot of it.
Smokin Apr 24th 2008 3:38AM
LAWL said it best...it's not about arena gear...it's about requiring a rating for honor gear. At best this paints Blizz as a bunch of incoherent monkeys. But...
A history lesson. When WoW came out, they didn't access the MMO player base that pays for an MMO to PvP. The whole course of PvP history in WoW has been nothing more than an attempt by the devs to access a portion of the player base they hadn't before, starting w/ the introduction of battlegrounds all the way up to this ridiculous notion that it makes sense to change gear that people have been able to buy with honor since it was introduced to gear that not only do you have to farm honor for, you have a REQUIRED arena rating.
Now, I do BGs and Arena, and I'll be brutally honest with you, I suck at Arena. I could bandy about all the usual arguments, that class imbalance make doing arenas successfully impossible for some, or that WoW has shifted focus, pulling the rug out from under those of us that started the game for the PvE content, but that's all bull. All these things people bitch about, class balancing, the introduction of mechanics that detract from fairness mean nothing. Blizz is looking at the bottom line, not just here and now with this Honor gear rating req debacle, but into the future, when they're going to have to compete with games that have infinitely better PvP systems.
In plain english, Blizz is doing anything and everything they can to retain the player base they've gotten with the advent of arenas. Being a crappy arena player, ill never see a personal rating outside of 1600, unless I buy points, which is just as bad as any other exploitation of game mechanics. So there is honor gear that I'll never be able to get because I can't climb into a higher bracket. Does this upset me? Perhaps a little, but you know what...those of us that started playing the game for PvE content will not be affected in the slightest. Those of us that play for PvP content will not be affected either, as is evidenced above by all those who cry "QQ some more, lazy players". This will affect the socalled 'casuals', and I'm hazarding a guess here, which make up a substantial part of WoW's customers. So really, in the end, who does this hurt but Blizzard?
My grandfather often says "Don't shit where you live", which is something I think Blizz may need to keep in mind...This game, when it started DIDN'T HAVE PvP, at least not in its current incarnation. And the advent of PvP, and the changes to it in the years following, have substantially changed game mechanics. I'm not going to wax nostalgic about old world raids on faction cities and constant war in Hillsbrad, because frankly, it was kind of annoying at times. But it fit the game, didn't it? In a way that arenas never will. But the fact remains is that Blizz got 10 millions subscribers ONLY after they implemented the current PvP system, and whatever we say, do, or want doesn't make a bit of difference.
Badger Apr 24th 2008 10:06AM
"[T]he fact remains is that Blizz got 10 millions subscribers ONLY after they implemented the current PvP system, and whatever we say, do, or want doesn't make a bit of difference."
This is true, but it's also simply a question of chronology. Yes, their subscriber base continued to grow as new PvP features were introduced and tweaked, but there were also a great many *other* things that have taken place in-game since then.
Some hardcore fans of the Warcraft series may have been drawn to the game when they learned they would have a chance to complete Illidan's storyline with the "Black Temple" patch. Some more literary-minded players may have liked the fusion of science fiction and classic fantasy that began with the introduction of the Draenei in "Burning Crusade." Some more open-minded RTS fans and "Warcraft" classicists might have been drawn to the strategic feel of Battlegrounds like Alterac Valley.
There's a mile-long grocery list of new, freshly introduced game features that might have drawn players to the game, and the Arena system is just one of them. Thus, the line of reasoning that you're questioning here - that is, the assumption that PvP mechanics were the big selling points of the game - is inherently flawed. (I think you were suggesting that this was Blizzard's thought process, and not your own - and even then, I hope you're wrong. I also hope you don't take offense or think I was singling out your particular feelings on the game as "weak.")
At the same time ... Try not to feel too down-hearted, dude. There are still Blizzard staffers who actually do listen to the Community (when they're not laughing their asses off at the idea of a lawsuit, flying in the face of the TOS and the EULA, that is).
Badger Apr 24th 2008 10:08AM
By the way: If your grandfather came up with that saying on his own, he's a damned comedic genius.
"Don't shit where you live" ... I gotta write that one down.
Treima Apr 24th 2008 4:11AM
Lawsuit over this? I can understand being angry and raising hell, but a lawsuit? I'd love to see you get laughed out of court.
I swear, the absurd sense of entitlement some players in this game have would be almost comical if it wasn't so disgusting.