Mania on the Growl change
by Mike Schramm 
Apr 28th 2008 at 1:30PM
Mania is quickly becoming the voice of choice for analysis on Hunter changes, and her latest take on the Growl changes recently released in the patch 2.4.2 notes is no exception. From what Mania can see, Growl's threat isn't scaling with Hunter Attack Power at all, but Blizzard claims it is, so she's chalking her findings in that direction up to faulty data. What she does determine, from both her research and Blizzard's posts on the subject, is that the change here has nothing to do with Hunter's RAP or AP values -- it only has to do with the pet's AP values. Before, if pet AP got a bonus, so did Growl's threat. After 2.4.2, any bonus to pet AP won't affect Growl's threat.So Hunters who routinely get their pet buffed are probably going to feel this change a little bit (though in most situations where pets get group buffs, I'd imagine Growl would be turned off anyway, in order for the tank to control threat). And Hunters who use boars, of course -- as Daniel explained, that extra AP from Charge doesn't work for Growl any more. Mania doesn't stop there, however -- since we know now that the only thing affecting Growl is the Hunter's Attack Power, she's determined to figure out just how much AP can scale Growl up (she's guessing it starts at 1955, we'll see what she comes up with).
Of course, some players have found that this works pretty well -- especially MM Hunters, who generally have more attack power (thanks to talents which increase it), have no problems with drawing aggro away from their growling pets. Blizzard's reasoning on this may have been solid -- to make the abilities of the pet rely on Hunter stats, not any temporary pet buffs. Hunters with Boars won't get that nice burst any more, but Hunters with a high RAP will do just fine.
Filed under: Hunter, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Buffs
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
brittwilson Apr 28th 2008 2:03PM
I still really don't understand this change, to boars, or pets growl in general. Who was this hurting? Where was this imbalanced? Where in PvP were people mad about pet growl values? You don't even use it in PvE.....
Please, someone enlighten me.....
Blackhorn Apr 28th 2008 2:23PM
Beast Mastery hunters use growl in every situation outside of instances/raiding and PvP.
Rep grinds? Growl.
Farming? Growl.
Questing? Growl.
Leveling? Growl.
Boars were godly. Their Charge attack basically double the AP of their next attack (or some such). Prior to this change, that doubled AP from Charge would apply to Growl, giving your pet piggy a MegaTaunt that would pretty much lock down that particular target for the duration of the fight.
The last time I used it, that little pig could charge in and generate 2.8-3.2K threat on its initial attack. Fun times were had.
This change undoes that, and it changes "everything". Now hunters have to do the equivalent of waiting for sunders while they're out just doing quests.
Balasan Apr 28th 2008 2:23PM
Before 2.4, growl, which is a high aggro spell used by hunter's pet to tank for the hunter, scaled, using pet AP, which is in itself scaled using the hunter's AP. Based on personal experience as a hunter, this was fine, except that boars have the spell boar's charge increased the AP of the next attack, which pre-2.4 was growl, making boars quite imba in solo play.
Blizz changed this in 2.4, first by nerfing growl not casting immediately after charge, and another by somehow nerfing growl itself (I don't know how, but again, on personal experience, my hunter's pet loses aggro easier after 2.4, no other changes done).
Apparently to compensate, growl will now use the hunter's AP as a modifier, which is definitely higher than pet AP, so in theory growl will be improved or return to pre-2.4 state in it's power.
According to Mania, this is not the case, or there is inconclusive evidence that growl has been affected.
As a hunter, it's quite a concern, but I guess I just adapted to the condition. I use FD more often in solo play now.
brittwilson Apr 28th 2008 3:03PM
Im sorry guys, I guess I wasnt clear. I get how it works, I had a boar for that exact reason when my hunter was still my main. I get how awesome it generated threat, and how growl works.
What I was trying to ask is:
Why was this change needed? Who felt threatened by boar growl superiority, or growl in general enough that they totally flip everything around on it?
Naix Apr 28th 2008 5:04PM
After the hunter buff to scare Druids they need a nerf.
Lars Apr 28th 2008 7:10PM
"Why was this change needed?"
Well, it was needed because previously only Beastmastery Hunters were able to keep aggro on their pets before.
It would be sooo much better if it actually works as intended, then finally Marksman Hunter pets will actually be worth a damn for more than 5 seconds of mob distraction.
brittwilson Apr 28th 2008 8:17PM
Lars, I don't agree with your comment, not only based on the fact that I was specifically a MM hunter, and never had a problem before with my trusty boar Charles, but that what you are saying is that this change was a buff to all hunter pets to help with holding threat, and that is simply not the case currently on the live realms.
But, each is entitled to think what they want.
bonse Apr 29th 2008 4:48AM
i think whats trying to be said is that boars were godly for all other specs. so if i wanted to get a pet for a marksman hunter for some grinding, what are my choices, boar, boar, boar or boar
despite the fact that i might not actually like boars, this is the kind of situation blizz has gone to lengths to avoid with pet normalization and so on
they are trying to get rid of the fact that BM have a choice of pets for grinding solo with, everyone else has to have a boar worryingly low AP or really like kiting
brittwilson Apr 29th 2008 11:01AM
Thank you Bonse, I get what you are saying. That makes a bit more sense now.
.....though Id rather see them buff the other pets (which it seems they will be with the 2.4.2 change) without destroying the best part of having a boar.....
darian Apr 28th 2008 2:38PM
Quoth the Hortus:
"The only change to pet threat in 2.4.2 is that growl no longer gets bonus threat from buffs to your pets AP (such as charge or blessing of might)."
This doesn't imply that the Pet's AP has no affect on growl. It only means that AP from buffs on the pet won't affect the ability.
It may be the case that Pet AP has nothing to do with growl's threat, but that's not something you can conclude from what has been said.
Mania Apr 28th 2008 2:53PM
To be clear, I'm pretty sure that portions of my data are faulty. However, having said that, there is still evidence that something is -- for lack of a better work -- wonky with Growl.
Myself, Nimizar and Ashraf have been coordinating on the WoW forums with our testing, and although we've had to throw out portions of our data, what we have left still seems to indicate that Growl is scaling with pet AP on the PTR. But investigations are ongoing, and anyone who would like to help gathering data is welcome to join us. :>
I tell you -- setting everything else aside, this would be alot easier if Blizzard was a bit more forthcoming about how things are supposed to work.
darian Apr 28th 2008 3:33PM
It's true it would be nice if Blizzard could be more forthcoming, but at the same time I can understand why they aren't.
The sheer number of mechanics, and how frequently they're tweaked behind the scenes, would require a cadre of full time staff to keep updated properly. To boot, the vast majority of populace doesn't delve far enough into the game mechanics to make use of more than [/roll]% of the information.
I'm okay with them looking at that situation and deciding it isn't worth their time, but it'd be nice if when the CMs answered game mechanics questions they were a lot more specific with their language. Half of forum explosions seem to come from CM posts where it's easy to misread, and hard to figure what interpretation is correct.
Kevin Apr 28th 2008 3:02PM
They would have to understand how it works for this to be the case. It's fairly clear to me that they unexpectedly broke Growl with 2.4.0 and since they can't figure out how they decided that it used to be bugged and now it's fixed. The old "It's not a bug, it's a feature." line.
tripp Apr 28th 2008 3:24PM
Most hunters are so stupid they don't even understand this change, just complain anyway.
guesswho? Apr 28th 2008 4:31PM
so true growl is useless in world of arenacraft amirite?
Druid dude Apr 28th 2008 3:27PM
I have a Hunter alt that I use for skinning and mining. And of course a Boar Pet. I am actually specced... MM. Geared pretty poorly, half Kara purples, some quest blues, etc.
Pre 2.4, I could send in Bacon (my pig) on a mob, Serpent Sting, and start a SS/Autoshot rotation with an occasional Arcane Shot. Mob would stay glued to Bacon nearly all the time.
With 2.4, its like I can't even look at a mob without pulling him off Bacon. About 1/3 of the time, the first Autoshot pulls aggro. Now I have to wind up an Aimed Shot, when it fires hit as Arcnae Shot and send Bacon, then do whatever I can to nuke the mob down before the stun wears off and he comes bolting for me. Don't even get me started about mana either lol!
I really hope this improves with the next patch. Maybe I will hit the PTR to see how it is there. But right now, grinding mobs for leather is much slower, with many breaks to drink, and rather aggravating overall. Needless to say, not much leather flowing from my Hunter to my Leatherworking main these days.
Scott Apr 28th 2008 4:52PM
Aww, hunters have to deal with getting hit sometimes. QQ
Try playing a shaman where your only aggro reduction ability is on a 40, 50, or 60 minute timer and you lose all your buffs.
foxkreig Apr 28th 2008 5:12PM
in responce to your inane commentary. When hunters are in melee range our dps is non-existant. Which is why we have pets in the first place. If the pet cant hold aggro we have to kite everything. Which is time consuming and/or problematic in a densely populated area.
The Shaman who has no aggro dump can still do loads of damage while something is slapping it in the face. If you are that worried about your aggro. drop tranquil air and quit petty commentary that has nothing to do with the class the article is about.
and yes i play a 70 raiding shaman and a 70 raiding hunter.
brucimus Apr 28th 2008 4:56PM
Hunters are ez mode and they like it that way
esumiwa Apr 28th 2008 7:28PM
LOL..I am so enjoying this when the druid lover David posted this as a BUFF just a day or two ago, yall jumped on me for being rude.
And now, its as clear as day ITS A F* NERF you blooging morons.
And this proves once again bloggers ARE NOT JOURNALISTS.
So we geta NERF on a major component for being a hunter.
And a measly, pathetic, 1 sec buff on an ability whose utility can only be found on the arena, against ONE class.
This is what wowinsider calls hunter love.
What bile, what puke.
Thankfully, unlike otehr readers, I love this site for its humor, bad jokes and blatant stupidity and sad ignorance.