Breakfast Topic: Scam or service?
by Robin Torres 
Apr 30th 2008 at 8:00AM
A couple months ago, Daniel Whitcomb wrote a great post about maximizing your bag space which included how to get a 20 slot bag from Budd Nedreck (pictured above). In it he explained exactly where to go in a cleared Zul'Aman to complete Budd's Promises, Promises quest.
Zzmorriss wrote in to say that he was offering in the Trade Channel to run people through his guild's cleared ZA instance in order to complete that quest. He charged 10 gold to join the raid and be guided to the place to get the item for Budd. He then charged another 10 gold a person to run them through again to do Budd's follow up quest. He made a total of 180 gold for 15 minutes of work and then ran through 6 or 7 more groups before the reset.
Zzmorriss wrote in to say that he was offering in the Trade Channel to run people through his guild's cleared ZA instance in order to complete that quest. He charged 10 gold to join the raid and be guided to the place to get the item for Budd. He then charged another 10 gold a person to run them through again to do Budd's follow up quest. He made a total of 180 gold for 15 minutes of work and then ran through 6 or 7 more groups before the reset.
Zzmorriss calls this an exploit and thinks that Blizzard will stop this at some point to prevent someone making so much money off of these guided tours of an empty instance. I disagree. I think that Zzmorriss is actually performing a service for casual players -- and a cheap one at that. There are many, many World of Warcraft players who are unable to participate in content like ZA. Zzmorriss is allowing these people to see a zone and obtain a really great item for only 10 gold and for another 10 gold, they can make their money back on the follow up quest.
Of course, friends and guildies will offer this service to you for free. And even strangers might do the same to help the underprivileged player without charging a fee. Also, if you have access to a ZA instance that is cleared past the first boss, you can find all the information from Daniel's post. But I think access is the real key here and not all players are on friendly terms with guilds who clear Zul'Aman regularly.
Now you know my thoughts. I want to hear yours. Do you think charging for access to a cleared ZA is taking advantage of people? Or do you think it is providing a service?
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Breakfast Topics, Instances, Making money
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
VSUReaper Apr 30th 2008 8:10AM
While I think it is a "service" to the casual player, it is also a disservice. I am a firm believer of working hard to get your rewards, and I feel that if people start to do this "service" then those people that pay will begin to think that they can buy thier way through anything.
Liel Apr 30th 2008 9:44AM
"working hard" in a game, not everyone can or wants to "work hard". I pay somebody to fertilize my lawn, I pay somebody to paint the interior of my house, guess i don't work hard enough. Oh wait I had to work in order to earn that money. Same thing, this guy was smart and found a way to earn money for his guild for their hard work, smart imo.
Jagoex Apr 30th 2008 1:21PM
Liel, I think you got your analogy a little mixed up. This isn't like paying someone simply for a service like lawn work or painting. It's like paying others to do work you are supposed to do.
A better analogy would be to pay someone else to do your homework for you. Sure, it gets the job done and you worked to have the money to spend it however you wish, but there is something inherently wrong with relieving oneself of such responsibility... especially when that responsibility is FUN and makes you a better player too.
Now don't get me wrong. I do not think less of people who take this individual up on his offer. However, I do believe that they are selling themselves short.
If Bliz agrees, they'll nerf it like they did the Chess event loot chest in Karazhan.
Algorithm Apr 30th 2008 2:29PM
I don't know if "earn" is really accurate for this. Especially because of the nature of this quest.
I've considered doing this on my OWN cleared instance for my herb/ore alts that have no business being in ZA. Does that make me a cheater?
VSUReaper Apr 30th 2008 6:11PM
Jagoex got what I was trying to say, but I think Liel missed the point. Its one thing to buy a piece of crafted gear because you have the money to do something. But this is a quest. The bag is a perk for at least clearing the first boss.
@Algorithm: I dont think there is any issue with bringing YOUR alts into the place to farm the ore/plant nodes because it was you that cleared the raid in the first place.
All I was trying to make a point of was that doing this is telling people that they can buy anything: quest rewards, arena points, raid drops, literally anything. And at least on my server, tier 4 raid gear is being sold easy by the upper lvl guilds. I personally have an issue with this, and have said so. People need to earn their gear, not get by easy.
Chais Apr 30th 2008 8:11AM
10g for a 20 slot bag?
definately a service
:D
pudds Apr 30th 2008 9:02AM
Even better, its actually -8G for a 20 slot bag. I was there with Zz the other day....he charged 10g for entrance to the raid, but the quest rewards the bag and 18g.
I ran it on 2 characters, and I'd have no qualms about doing it again.
Nick S Apr 30th 2008 3:55PM
if this is wrong, i don't want to be right. who, exactly, is losing here?
not a scam.
thatquietgamerdude Apr 30th 2008 8:34AM
Well, as long as they get the item they paid for, then it's not a scam. Some people aren't lucky enough to be in good guilds who are able to organize raids.
Thakgor Apr 30th 2008 8:27AM
I had a guy take me and several others into ZA to do this exact thing. He didn't charge us (although 10g is cheap for a 20 slot bag). I think this is akin to a higher level running a lower level through an instance to finish quests and get loot without any work. Since Blizzard isn't changing that anytime soon, I don't see them changing this. Nice racket the guy's got going, might have to try that out.
zchang Apr 30th 2008 8:27AM
It's pure unadulterated capitalism and I applaud him for it. He's discovered a win-win scenario where both parties benefit from the exchange. VSUReaper believes that it's a "disservice" to casual players? Get off your high horse. It's simply bag space, a peak at an instance, and a little bit of gold. If Blizzard feels that selling arena team points is fair then the ability to offer a tour of a cleared instance pales by comparison. There's no reason to punish folks for playing smarter.
vildand Apr 30th 2008 8:28AM
It's not a scam because there is no fraud, people who get involved are getting exactly what they paid for. "Service or ripoff" would be a much more appropriate title, but then 10g for a 20 slot bag is hardly a ripoff.
makabak Apr 30th 2008 9:40PM
If anyone's getting ripped off here, it's the entire guild that cleared ZA. One guild member is getting 70-90g a day, from the sound of it. I hope he's spread that around his guild.
ThorinII Apr 30th 2008 8:34AM
Hey, if you aren't lucky enough to know someone who will help you for free, 10g is a very fair price. He's a paid guide, nothing more, nothing less. This is not an exploit, this is capitalism at its best.
Lodz Apr 30th 2008 8:35AM
primal mooncloth bags (also 20 slotters) used to cost 350g each..
Zali Apr 30th 2008 12:47PM
They still do. In fact, as soon as I get home today I will take the six pieces of mooncloth that I made over the last few weeks, and the 2 that I made this morning before work, and I will create another mooncloth bag and toss it up on the AH for 350G. If it is anything like every other mooncloth bag I have ever made, it will be gone in an hour.
10G for a 20 slot bag isn't a service OR a ripoff. It's a blinking steal and anyone who doesn't jump on that deal is a fool and a sucker for letting it pass.
Balius Apr 30th 2008 8:38AM
It's not a scam. People are getting exactly what they are paying for, and if they're willing to pay 10G for the bag good deal. An extra two slots of bag space on a few people isn't hurting anyone else, either, and certainly doesn't give them any sort of advantage (unless you count not returning to town a few extra minutes while farming an advantage). It's a slight thing to the people at large, and benefits both parties. Good job.
Harlequinné Apr 30th 2008 9:52AM
Good job on reading the actual article...
Anyway, I'm ambivalent about it.
It has all the airs of an "exploit", it's using a game mechanic in a unintended way.
Then again, so is killing a boss and waiting till the trash despawns to do the quests in Karazhan.
And it's just a bag, come on.
Tenchan Apr 30th 2008 8:47AM
I think it's awesome that he does this. I boggle that this still needs to be said again and again, but there are players in WoW that cannot partake in high level raids because of simple time constraints. That does not mean they are not putting effort into the game. It's not their fault that 20 slot bags are only available through high level/high number raids or extremely expensive tailoring services, nor that there is no way for them to see raid zones unless they actually raid.
And it is hardly a scam, nor an exploit, as it does not use a bug, gives an unfair advantage or frauds people.
Sinthar Apr 30th 2008 8:49AM
This is so obviously not a scam i dont know what the author is thinking of. Its a clever way of making money, and helping causal players get hold of a decent bag. Im just surprised he doesnt offer a 30g service to do all the q's leading upto Hex Lord....Ha, which is the first one to actually require killing someone. Very clever - i applaud his lateral thinking, and am probably (with my guilds knowledge and permission) gonna knick the idea and run it myself. (And sort my guild out with a cut). The only thing i can think of, is does he give a cut to his guild, as he certainly did not clear it all by himself, so a contribution to his guild from his profits would be, imho, the right thing to do