Officers' Quarters: We love you, but L2P
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.Hot off my month-long, four-feature dissertation on casual raiding, I've decided to answer some e-mails that relate to it. This week's e-mail is about a subject that comes up quite often in casual raiding guilds: When someone is generous, helpful, and an all-around great member, but who just isn't getting the job done in raids, what do you do about it?
Hi Scott,
I'm an officer/co-GM of a humble, little raiding guild, looking to have fun, grow and progress with our members. [. . .] We take raiding seriously enough that we're not wasting our time (everyone is on time and comes prepared), but we also have a lot of giggling and laughing in vent during raids, even when we wipe.
All would be fantastical and perfect . . . except my guild is in sort of a predicament with a certain guild member. He's been with us for a while now -- long enough to not be considered a new member. He's a friend of mine, as well as a friend of our other co-GM. He's a healer and quite well geared. Probably the best geared in the guild. [. . .] Along with all the effort he's put into improving his character, he's also a decent guy. Whenever someone in the guild needs help, whether it be for a quest or for an empty raid spot, he won't hesitate to stop what he's doing to come help out. [. . .]
So, he seems like a top notch guild member. Well geared, puts effort into his character, and is a nice guy. Problem? He knows he's well geared, but he doesn't know he SUCKS at healing.
All of our core raiders have come to recognize this on their own. Most of them approached the officers about this, without any prompting from anybody else. We try to do new content with him, but every time we do, we never get anywhere. We always wipe because of his healing incompetence. [. . .]
How do you tell someone they suck at healing? Especially if they're not arrogant or obnoxious about it. I've talked to our officers about this, and nobody is quite sure how to handle this. The guy is not rude or mean, he's just naively overconfident about his own skills. He's also got the gear -- nobody else in the guild is as well geared as he is (I was the guild's main healer for a while, but I've since switched to dps and his gear has surpassed even mine), so it's seems a little bit awkward for someone less well geared to be giving advice to him.
How can we tell him that he sucks without being jerks about it? Also, who would be the best person to talk to him?
Sincerely,
Unsure and Concerned Officer
Gear does not equal skill.
It's been said before, but it bears repeating. I'll never forget the day, a long time ago, when my guild was running Molten Core and a friend from one of the server's top raiding guilds came with us. For some reason he had two 60 rogues: one in this very successful hardcore guild, and another in our guild that he leveled up just for fun. He brought the "fun" rogue along on this run, and that character's gear was pretty terrible. He was still using the Thrash Blade from that Maraudon quest. Yet, with that mid-40s quest sword, he out DPS'ed just about everyone in our raid. Sure the Thrash has a great proc, but we had plenty of people wielding epics, and he beat nearly all of us. He was just that good at stabbing stuff. It was certainly eye-opening!
The good news for you here, UACO, is that the player you're dealing with is in fact a nice person. That may seem like bad news, but it's not. If he were a jerk, he probably wouldn't accept advice from anyone. But if your healer is as nice as you say, he will want to do what's best for the guild (and, in this case, himself). Sure, he's probably going to be a bit hurt, but you can minimize the damage with a little bit of preparation.
First, I highly recommend using a site like WoW Web Stats to start tracking everyone's performance. I've spoken about it before in this column. It will tell you not only how much everyone is healing, but how much they are overhealing, exactly what they are casting in each encounter, and how many times they're casting it. Post the results on your forums so everyone can see where they stand. Do this for a few raids before you say anything. By then, the numbers should speak for themselves.
In fact, other people might find out they aren't particularly excelling at their role, either. If any of your officers is posting ugly numbers, urge them to post publicly about how they're disappointed with their performance and what they plan to do to improve. Have them ask for advice. Doing so will establish an environment of requesting and following through on feedback that sets a good example for other members and a good precedent for the conversation to come.
It's one thing to tell someone that they need to improve their play. That's basically just an opinion, so imagine how that will sound: "Hello, friend! I'm pretty sure that you suck and should L2P." It's another thing entirely to show them exactly what everyone is doing and make a factual comparison of effectiveness. Bad healing is a lot harder to diagnose with raw stats than bad DPS. However, if your healer is getting outhealed 2 : 1 by people in dungeon rares, if he never casts healing-over-time spells or multi-target heals when everyone else is, it will be pretty obvious. It's possible after reviewing the logs that he'll reach this conclusion on his own and make some adjustments. But in all likelihood you won't be able to avoid this awkward conversation.
Choose the timing of the conversation carefully. Doing it beforehand is distracting and potentially upsetting. Doing it after a long night of wipes is just rubbing salt in the wound.
I highly recommend that you have this talk one-on-one in private. If there's more than one person on your side of the discussion, your healer may feel ganged up on. Having it in public is humiliating and will immediately put him on the defensive.
Who should be the one to do it? They need several qualifications:
- They should know the class just as well as your healer, even if they don't have equivalent gear. If they make a mistake about a class mechanic, they could undo the desired outcome. If you don't have anyone who fits that role, then it should at least be a very experienced healer.
- They should be adept at dealing with people. You need someone with a soft touch.
- They should know this person relatively well. The discussion may not go over well coming from a stranger.
- They must be willing to have the conversation. If someone is bullied or guilted into it, they may simply keep putting it off.
The actual criticism must be as constructive as possible and based on facts. It will be up to the person you've chosen how best to phrase his points. Avoid phrases like "The officers think . . ." or "Everybody knows . . ." You don't want your healer to feel like there's been a vast conspiracy involved in this talk (even though it sounds like there has been!). Throughout the conversation, your spokesperson might want to emphasize the value of the healer to the guild, praising the many contributions and sacrifices he has made. I'm not suggesting flattery -- just truthful statements about his worth and popularity.
Later, your healer may approach an officer, possibly concerned, or confused, or a little angry. So make sure your officers know that the conversation is happening. Whatever officer he approaches, he or she must gently back up the criticisms provided to reinforce the message.
If he still doesn't believe you, you may need to cite some experts. The Elitist Jerks forums are an excellent resource of class information and raiding strategies. Sites such as WoWWiki and BossKillers often recommend specific healing strategies against certain bosses. There's also WoWInsider.com's very own Raid Rx column.
It's human nature to fall into a rut doing a task a certain way if you've had success with that method in the past. Every now and then we all need to step back and reevaluate what we're really doing -- even (or should I say "especially"?) officers!
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Andy May 5th 2008 11:15AM
Anyone in a raiding guild, no matter the level of content, should expect to be evaluated on their performance in a raid environment. It's tough when someone is a real nice person, but just can't effectively do their job in 25man content - but this is the sort of thing that can be remedied with some Ventrilo discussion and plenty of links to Elitist Jerks and testimony from other players on spec, gear, and gem choices, as well as ability rotations.
You can build a better player, but you can't build a nicer player. Keep the nice guy, and just teach him the ways of 25man healing.
Harmun May 5th 2008 2:01PM
Luckily, this guy's a healer and healing is one of those roles that can be made so simple a dunderhead like me can do it. Tell your friend to download healbot and ready up how to configure it for his class on the elitistjerks site. Healbot will improve his game considerably. It shows a separate frame for the entire raid and allows you to single click to cast.
If he's one of those players who has trouble with the default UI, this alone could solve his problem.
If he needs some more strategic help, then you might want to have a experienced healer go over some of the basics with him to make sure that there's no silly gotchya he has been missing all this time.
It might help if we knew exactly what was making him a bad healer... if it's his position on the overheals table versus him not being able to keep a single assigned target up, these are two different problems with different solutions.
Quisling May 5th 2008 6:58PM
I fully agree with both the above post and this excellent comment, though I have a question related to both:
What if more than one person is like this in a guild? Perhaps more relevant to my situation: What if 15/25 of a guild is like this?
I know it seems like a lot, but we've been compiling our 25 man team recently and as we pull away from our 10 man content I'm beginning to see that the way my 10 man team performs (quite well) and the way the other two teams perform is not only on the same level, but I'm surprised the other two teams can even complete a karazhan post-nerf. Our 10-man clears ZA with a third timer chest almost bi-weekly, but the remainder of the guild just ISN'T up to that level.
We have actually had the opportunity to run with the MT of the top progression guild on our server (2/5 SWP currently) in Gruul's lately (He wants the DPS trinket, so it's mutually beneficial). He actually said to our GM last weekend:
"Who's casting Holy Fire?"
"Uhh... that was me"
"Please don't ever do that again, ok?"
"Well sometimes I get tired of healing"
This was on Gruul.
Mir May 7th 2008 7:25AM
What if more than one person is like this in a guild? Perhaps more relevant to my situation: What if 15/25 of a guild is like this?
Then you're in the wrong guild. Seriously.
brittwilson May 5th 2008 11:19AM
Its a tough place to be, we are having the same problem with a handful of members that are trying to be part of our raiding group, but just cant cut it. And its totally true, healing is one of the most annoying things to analyze, numbers can be thrown off my healing assignments, early deaths, too many of a class that does your assigned job better than you, all kinds of stuff.
biglou May 5th 2008 11:22AM
I used to be that guy. Honestly though until someone pointed out my flaws....I really didnt know what I was doing wrong and thought that my lousy healing was great as I didnt have a point of comparison. Ya it pissed me off for a bit ("Who the f*&k is this douche bag warrior telling me how to heal....little effin pr&*k"). I got sent to boot camp, literally and was told to hit AV and heal there for a spell and I was told not to come out until I could catch a fly with chopsticks. At first I sucked in there...kept getting pounded...kept dying..kept healing the dying pets. Then I started getting better and then I leading for healing in most BG's I went into (pretty good for a pally). Now my game is better, I have awesome gear (not tier 6 but 2k+healing aint bad), I have better situational awareness, my layout is cleaner, my keys are mapped, and because someone called me out on my shitty healing Im a much better player.
West May 5th 2008 12:31PM
I 100% agree about AV being healing boot camp.
Don't come back until you are #1 by at least 2x the closest other healer.
Merri May 5th 2008 1:54PM
This is a great suggestion and since I always question my healing ability I am going to start doing this.
I'm a casual player but, honestly, if I wasn't healing well and no one told me I'd be horrified. I want to know! I want to be as effective as possible even if I'm not raiding five times a week.
I've also been accused of being 'too nice' so I live in fear of being 'that guy' (girl, in my case)...the guy this article is about.
Zan May 6th 2008 7:09AM
I never thought about AV being boot camp.
I used to heal it extensively on my priest long before BC came out.
When I was leveling my Pally up, I actually kinda did send myself to AV boot camp. I was level 65, specced 20 holy (reduced chance of healing knockback & illumination) and the rest in ret. I was wearing healing gear I'd got from low level instances (the robe from blood furnace, for instance, the blue cenarion expedition healing mace, etc), I hit top of the healing meter consistantly over 70s in epics.
I spent time turning 70 in AV grinding rep for gear before switching mains. I ground the bracers/boots/belt/necklace before S2 ended and got the healing chest and gloves shortly after S3 started.
Good training. I try and bring fresh 70 alts and all of my healing core into AV to mess around. We get 2-3 healers and a few of our DPS and just descemate the place over and over again.
Blackhorn May 5th 2008 11:23AM
I know a similar healer whose main problem is complete and devastating tunnel-vision. Very good at keeping the tank alive (we're talking 5-mans here), but very poor at healing anyone else in the group.
A lot of avoidable deaths simply because he didn't notice that anyone else was being chewed on. I basically have to do just enough DPS in a pull to threat once in a while just to help snap him out of it and throw a heal to someone else.
But like this officer here, I don't know quite how to bring it up. I did this thing at work once about how to get along with coworkers that have different personality types... long story short, I'd describe our healer as "Emotional Emotional" which is, as it looks, about as emotionally-based as you can get.
I can't speak for your healers personality, but with our healer, I can expect him to feel very victimized no matter how small of an issue it is I need to bring up.
He's gonna get defensive, and red-faced, and think he's being attacked. Like he's being chastised. And it's a real pain in my ass because I am most certainly not an "emo-emo" personality. I'm what you'd call a "Mental Emotional", which means logic and rationality are on my side.
Either way, you might want to expect it to go like an argument with a girlfriend (or boyfriend, whatever) in that initially it could be very bad. But stay calm, avoid anything sharp-tongued. Sugar coat as much as you can, and eventually you'll be able to break through the outer layer of defensiveness and emotional stuff and have a real conversation. Two hours later, you'll be joking around again and hopefully on a better track to phat loots.
biglou May 5th 2008 11:24AM
I meant to say that I became a much better raid/instance healer from my experiences in BG's after being called out as a mediocre healer. There was a point to my rant...that was it =D
Riktopher May 5th 2008 11:33AM
I still remember 6 - 7 manning Kara up to Shade with an entire group wearing blues and mostly greens (some scattered Season 1 gear here and there) with no wipes till then, and only one person along had ever done it before. They were all in little alt/leveling/5-man guilds, and still to this day I don't know why we didn't start our own regular group or guild.
Roboticus May 5th 2008 11:49AM
Great column. My guild has not dealt with this as well as you describe. Perhaps it's just because some of our players are SEVERELY underperforming, and might be beyond remedy.
In a recent kara run, we had two hunters, me and Mr. Underperformer. I was able to put out decent DPS at 600-700 from me and 200-300 from my BM pet. What amazed me, though, is our other hunter CONSISTENTLY put out less DPS than my pet (sometimes as low as 150 dps). Puzzled, I put him on focus and watched his castbar for a few fights, and realized he was Aimed Shotting every time it was up, and stringing steady shots together in a way that he never got off a single autoshot. And of course, using such a mana inefficient shot rotation, he ran himself OOM very early in the fight. But to make matters worse, when he went oom, he somehow turned off his autoshot, and didn't get it back on for a full 30 seconds.
When confronted with the issue, he argues strongly that Aimed-Steady-Steady-Steady is the best shot rotation possible, and comes up with some bizarre theorycrafting to support it.
How the freaking heck do you talk sense into somebody like that?
darian May 5th 2008 1:41PM
If you do not already run WWS, start doing so. It's very difficult to argue as to the accuracy of WWS, so consistent bad performance should be a wake up call.
If he continues to persist in the face of that, suspend him from raiding. Whether as Raid Leader or as Officer, you are the higher authority. He should prove to you that his DPS is decent, not the other way around.
rick gregory May 5th 2008 2:45PM
Numbers. DPS issues are much easier to deal with. He can argue for his rotation all he wants... but when you show him his dps is 150 and yours is 600 he's going to have to work VERY hard to justify that. It's basically 'if you're so right, why do I have 4x the damage you do?'
Nick S May 5th 2008 3:02PM
we have a meter-loving culture in our guild. we run meters obsessively (too obsessively for some) and constantly discuss them.
sure, meters have their problems, but intelligent use of them can show a member of your raid a lot about what's working and what isn't.
Silverrealm May 5th 2008 11:50AM
"Gear does not equal skill. "
I can't say how many times I have gone into an instance with a tank with uber-armor and they were rank!
I can't say how many times a mage in PVP gear pulled aggro!
I can't say how many times my hunter friend has saved my ass and worked with all his tools to be an unstoppable force! Honestly!
I can't say how many times my friend has joked about my PvE greens/blues and we went in and instance and I was able to keep everyone alive working the heals.
It really comes down to skill.
Your gear will only get you so far... essentially hiding your short comings for so long before someone notices.
I agree if he is a nice guy... then he should be able to accept a little bit of constructive criticism.
Where I wouldn't worry so much at tletting the numbers speak for themselves... (that is maybe a slap in the face)... try it a different way.
Start actively discussing 'What happened?' after a wipe. Allow people to openly come forward. Then give your advice.
If the MT went down because of spike damage, and the healer wasn't on top of it... try suggesting that XX heal needed to be cast in that case.
If this guy is eager to help, maybe he will come to you and ask for advice on being more efficient.
If you constantly harp on him for not healing then things will go horribly... but try to work it in and take suggestions from all around on how it should have been dealt with on DPS, Tank and healing sides.
Try it out and see if he can recognize that he may be less then adequate.
After a wipe I always ask 'What happened?' and am courteous, offer encouragement and say 'Hey it's ok, wipes happen'... but when the same trend happens over and over again and no one learns from it and puts that into practice, getting no where fast is inevitable.
D May 5th 2008 11:54AM
This column and the comments are full of great advice. I think the biggest reason it will be tough is that he'll probably be more hurt that you didn't come to him earlier. Letting him suck for this long is like not telling a friend he has food stuck in his teeth...like for a whole day...and then letting him go out on a date with the food stuck in his teeth. Seriously.
So as nice as he is, expect a little backlash. We have plenty of those "nice" people in our guild as well. Then I'll go to WWS and see that one of them is using Flash Heal 80% of the time and Greater Heal less than 20%. /boggle
I'm so glad I'm not an officer.
Cheers and again, good luck to you.
Iskur May 5th 2008 11:54AM
As an officer I had the same situation only this epiced out yet total aweful healer was the GM. Unbelievably bad and totally full of himself. In the end I had to leave that guild because he would not change.
Angus May 5th 2008 12:01PM
I've dealt with "that guy."
In my case it was a very sweet woman who was being out-DPSed by an Enhancement shaman in worse gear (me) when she was a Warlock.
We talked about her personal DPS. She felt she was letting people down. That was all the opening I needed for going over things with her and it was an amazing difference. She had no issues with honest discussions involving how she could work on rotation, talents, and tricks. I don't play 'Locks, but in the end with just what I had done for research on them we were able to increase her damage by a good 15-20%.
If this guy's as helpful as characterized, it will be easy if you set it up to be.
Have someone approach him with questions on healing. Best person is someone working on a healing alt, a DPS that can heal, or a newbie healer working their way up. Especially if it is someone in the same class.
Get a frank discussion out of him as to how overhealing works, when is spamming group heals appropriate (or if no group heals, when applying HoTs or flash of light spam on multiple targets) and how does downranking help.
If he doesn't know these things, his helpful nature will kick in.
He will do his best to get that information for the person asking and he will have to research it. Eyes open when you see something you thought was good is being discussed by experts as inefficient. (I now have chain heal 4 on my bar instead of 5.)
I find that if you work with THEIR good nature and get them to help THEMSELVES while helping someone else, you get better results. No need to accuse someone of sucking eggs. When you ask em how it should be done and they find out, they will fix it themselves.
Now if he isn't willing to turn the microscope internally, it might be time for a chat involving someone getting him to redo things.