Bornakk speaks on the whole esports thing
by Daniel Whitcomb 
May 6th 2008 at 4:00PM
So a while back, Tom Chilton talked about turning WoW into a "viable Esports platform" in an interview with Gamespy, and lots of players did not take it well. Some time later, the fire has still not died down. Darqchild of the Perenolde server posted another complaint about this the other day, expressing a belief that the creation of a 2nd rule set and the domination of the esports concept had already gone with the implementation of a Tournament server.
Bornakk replied with his own defense of Blizzard and Tom Chilton over a series of posts in the thread. First, he said that the implementation of the Isle of Queldanas in 2.4 with all its PvE quests and dungeons was proof that Blizzard still considers the PvE game. On the focus on the 3v3 Arena tournament, he said that just because they're running it doesn't mean they're neglecting other things, and said that information would be put out on new PvE content when it was available.
Finally, and here's the two comments where one really wishes he would have elaborated, he said both that they do take PvE and PvP into consideration when making class changes, and that Chilton's Esports comments have been widely misinterpreted.
On the first comment, I have to say that 2.4's testing both supports and conflicts with this idea. In their original forms, the Life Tap nerf and the water drinking change, while obvious arena-oriented, also created incredible problems for certain classes in PvE. Likewise, the Lifebloom nerf devastated PvE-oriented Tree of Life Druids while doing little to affect Restoration druid play in the arenas at all. So from a certain point of view, it's hard to believe Bornakk's comment.
From another point of view, we should remember that 2.4 was all about the progressive testing, and all of these changes were eventually either removed completely, or adjusted so that only affected Arenas. Whether they did this because of testing results on the PTR or because of community outcry is a whole other can of worms, however, so I suppose people will believe what they want to believe on Bornakk's comments.
Still, I think the biggest thing to take away from this is that once again, a blue poster is promising information on WoTLK in the near future, or at least teasing us with the prospect. Here's hoping that the rain really is coming!
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, News items, PvP, Classes, Buffs, Arena
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
TotalBiscuit May 6th 2008 4:06PM
E-sports has no place in WoW, nor is the arena game remotely entertaining to watch. PvP is a tacked-on mini-game and shouldn't be interfering with PvE.
Introit May 6th 2008 4:16PM
I think that sums it up right there. PvP is a distraction for me, nothing more.
pudds May 6th 2008 4:22PM
I disagree; for many of us, PvP is the primary motivation, not a distraction.
That said, if their intent is to make WoW a viable eSport, they're not even pointed in the right direction when it comes to arenas and BGs.
Ametrine May 6th 2008 4:37PM
For once, Biscuit, you say something that I can 100% wholeheartedly agree with.
Even setting the Tournament/Arena detailings aside, PVP has caused more entirely unneccesary nerfs to the PVE game than vice-versa - after all, how much has PVE nerfing caused problems with PVP? ...None, I believe.
Personally, I say that arenas be mercilessly excised from the normal realms and leave PVP on the non-Tournament realms to BGs and the occasional random world encounter and/or lowbie-ganking. But that's just me.
Good to see one of the bigger names in the WoW media circus agrees with me about the pointlessness of specialized PVP in a PVE-centralized game.
ninjasuperspy May 6th 2008 4:39PM
Agreed. Without the PvE game, PvP cannot happen. The reverse cannot be said. PvP should not drive PvE nerfs. I can (and do) play the game without ever setting foot in an Arena or a Battleground. Largely thanks to level 19 rogues with 2000+ HP any PvP before 70 for a character you plan to level is pointless anyway.
Kaljin May 6th 2008 5:07PM
Its my main game, but PvP and PvE should be, in no way, interacting with each other on a gear or skills based level.
Psychosis May 6th 2008 6:41PM
Whenever you've said this i can't help but agree.
I like the idea of giving decent items to the casuals (arguable) however when they are on-par and in alot of cases of S3 items better then their PvE "Counterparts" is when Blizzard is going wrong. when you can use PvP weapons in a PvE environment and hold your own against PvE-geared classes, thats where the line needs (should of) been drawn
Also i'm pretty much against any change made to change the PvP side of the game and majorly nerfs the PvE side. Any changes to a class in an originally PvE orientated game need to be made with PvE in mind FIRST.
If you want an mmo with pure PvP go pick up an Age of conan or warhammer CD when they get released. We won't miss you.
Freehugz May 6th 2008 11:48PM
To summarize "People who enjoy all aspect of this game are hurting the enjoyment of people who only enjoy grinding/raiding"
Wowgamer May 6th 2008 4:18PM
Sorry totalbiscuit, but that is just your opinion. your "mini-game" is my only game.
gnoop May 6th 2008 5:38PM
Which means you're only making use of a very limited subset of the game. Further, it's one that didn't exist in its current form until the expansion came out.
While WoW has pvp, WoW isn't pvp. It's a sideshow to pve's main show. Fortunately, there are games out and games coming out which seem to have a heavier focus on pvp than WoW does.
Vladius May 6th 2008 4:17PM
Arena has now place in WoW lore and is detrimental to the game as a whole. It needs to be removed for the long term health of the game.
Matt May 6th 2008 4:22PM
Care to elaborate? How is it against lore? and how is it detrimental?
Roxton May 6th 2008 6:02PM
@Matt:
The threat of the Burning Legion is greater than ever; the very fabric of time itself is under attack; Illidan schemes within his black temple, and we go and play a game of gladiators under the watchful gaze of a goblin in a tuxedo for the benefit of the empty stadium. At least with battlegrounds they made a half-hearted attempt to patch up Unreal Tournament with some lore. Arenas are a joke. Having said that, I hear that the new comic book with the King of Stormwind in it involves arena tournaments, so maybe Blizzard is belatedly attempting to make it fit.
Either way, it's still detrimental to the game. When classes and abilities are balanced around very specific 5v5 combos then the whole game suffers, because what balances a lock in a team of pally warrior mage and shaman against an identical team is not necessarily balanced for anything else in the game. We've seen this time and time again, and I really hope that the expansion is going to wipe the slate clean and return PvE to its rightful place at the heart of game design once more. By all means have arenas and tournaments, but don't make the game revolve around them. They are, after all, an addition to the game, not the game itself.
Freehugz May 6th 2008 11:51PM
I like how every comment on this blog that even has a hint of PvP support gets modded down. Even a legitimate question 2 comments up lol.
Eh? May 7th 2008 2:59AM
The arenas DO have a small place in the lore, more of a little side story than anything. If you don't believe me, just go talk to the old arenamaster in nagrand.
Here is basically in a nutshell, the lore that gave birth to the arenas as is known at this point:
According to the old arena master in Nagrand, when the Dark Portal was reopened and the people of azeroth rediscovered Outland, the goblins stumbled upon the brown orcs participating in a time-honored ritual of hand-to-hand combat in an arena setting. The matches were conducted with honor, reverence and in a small not-so-public arena.
When the goblins saw this they saw instead a gold mine. They then did what goblins do best: "Moichendizing! Moichendizing! Moichendizing!" They took the tradition and ritual, greatly twisted and distorted it, and turned it into a gaudy, massive commercial affair that makes lots of gold. it proved to be so popular that they then brought it back to Azeroth with them where it exploded.
That's basically where the comic can fit in. Remember, that the story of the kidnapped King of Stormwind is not an old story, it's supposedly happening right now as the current in-game story ends in Dustwallow Marsh with hints that the Defias were transporting the king to some undisclosed location but escaped. That he became an arena fighter is basically possible because of the rapid growth of the arenas the goblins brought back through the Dark Portal.
Due to how recent this has happened, it's understandable that there isn't a lot of lore to support it and Blizz can easily build on it from here.
That being said however, I agree that the current implementation of Arenas needs to have it's own set of rules apart from the PvE game. I don't think Blizz needs to excise them from the whole game though, variety is a good thing. Blizzard has shown that they are able and willing to learn from experience and this is no different. No one knows what Wrath will bring.
thethirdmoose May 6th 2008 4:28PM
PvE is only a way to get up to lvl 70 so that you can have really good PvP
Dan May 6th 2008 4:44PM
Which kind of suggests that the two should be separated doesn't it? Make arena (not BGs) a separate game entirely, so if you want to do arena with a certain class, you don't have to spend weeks and weeks getting a toon leveled up to be able to use it. Also, people that prefer PvE wouldn't be subjected to the continual buffs/nerfs by Blizzard in their vain attempt to balance arena out.
Eh? May 7th 2008 3:12AM
"Which kind of suggests that the two should be separated doesn't it? Make arena (not BGs) a separate game entirely, so if you want to do arena with a certain class, you don't have to spend weeks and weeks getting a toon leveled up to be able to use it. Also, people that prefer PvE wouldn't be subjected to the continual buffs/nerfs by Blizzard in their vain attempt to balance arena out."
Actually Dan, no it doesn't. While in this game PvE is needed to get to the levels where you would like to PvP, they do not need to be mutually exclusive. Each on their own can be frightfully dull. To get a better picture of the whole, look at it this way:
Tired of PvE? go PvP some. Tired of PvP? go PvE questing/instance/raid some. Gear doesn't have to be and shouldn't be mutually exclusive either. Cool items and gadgets from both play types should be able to be used everywhere you go, they add flavor and make the game more enjoyable. To remove one or the other entirely from the game shortchanges what otherwise would be a complete game experience, whether you *choose* to participate in it or not. (the choice is always there at least if you ever decide to try it out)
Dakira May 6th 2008 4:33PM
I do think the e-sport aspect needs work, but I do think that both the PVE and PVP aspects of the game are very watchable. After all I seem to waste hours on youTube watching it..
slayerboy May 6th 2008 4:49PM
PVE and PVP needs to be seperate realms. Sure, keep the BG's because those are pretty fun. Arena's on the other hand serve no purpose. Maybe lore-wise you can say it's "training", but PvP is completely different from PvE. The focus on PvP needs to be tweaked. People playing on PvE servers are on there for a reason.