Has Growl been changed or not?
by Mike Schramm 
May 7th 2008 at 8:00PM
Ever since it was reported that in 2.4.2, threat generated by Growl would no longer scale with pet attack power, Hunters have been trying to figure out what that means. Will it only scale with Hunter attack power? Is there any way to get Growl's threat up? Just what is the relationship between the threat generated by Growl and the stats listed on both Hunter and pet? The Mystic Hunter has been working to try and figure things out, but the stats he's found have actually been more confusing than clarifying -- he did a series of tests on the Live server and then on the Test server... and found them to be the same.Say wha? Mystic found that threat is clearly scaling with Pet AP, and not with Ranged AP (he shot RAP way high using the Core of Ar'kelos and a few other gear pieces, and had no noticeable affect on threat generated by Growl).
So not so fast on that Growl change -- if it is going to be implemented in 2.4.2, it hasn't been put out there yet (which, considering that the 2.4.2 testing is supposed to be almost over, makes us think it won't happen this patch at all). Of course, if the fix doesn't come out, then the original problem is still there. These Growl issues are turning out to be a huge headache for both Hunters and Blizzard.
Filed under: Hunter, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Buffs
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Evilgm May 7th 2008 8:09PM
The problem is Boar's getting an AP buff when they use their charge, boosting their first Growl. Blizz have said this is a bug, and this is the fix.
Daniel Whitcomb May 7th 2008 8:20PM
But apart from that, Evilgm, tests done by multiple hunters are showing that Growl does not seem to be scaling in any significant amount with Hunter AP and instead keeps to the same old Pet AP formula. This has nothing to do with Boars. Multiple test by multiple hunters are turning up this way.
But Hortus is claiming that it is fixed and that he refuses to test it further, or at least refuses to answer questions about it on the PTR Forums, so the Hunter community is more or less rather confused.
dart May 7th 2008 8:11PM
Akamaru! The best character from Naruto :D
jbodar May 7th 2008 9:07PM
Isn't that just like being the smartest kid on the short bus?
*prepares for the neg ratings*
Kaljin May 7th 2008 9:52PM
No, you get a + rating for that comment.
Zakk May 7th 2008 10:01PM
"No, you get a + rating for that comment."
Agreed.
Treima May 8th 2008 1:38AM
Akamaru...Never expected to see him on this site. I am pleasantly surprised!
C.A. May 7th 2008 9:10PM
Jūjin Bunshin!!!!!!
C.A. May 8th 2008 7:28AM
People who would downgrade a comment just because someone likes something you don't are sad. Get a life.
Brommon May 7th 2008 9:19PM
How is he getting his threat numbers? Did Blizz add a threat meter to the game while I wasn't looking? Otherwise, it seems to me like he must be using a threat meter mod of some kind to get his numbers, and since threat meters generally have to be updated with each patch to reflect the latest equations, of course the METER is going to give the same info on either realm. The mod hasn't changed, even if the actual game stats have.
NeSuKuN May 8th 2008 2:16AM
There are tons of ways to measure threat. How do you think the threat meters are developed?
PeeWee May 8th 2008 7:43AM
NeSuKuN, read what he posted. He asked how the threat measurement could possibly be different if the mods haven't been updated to reflect the actual changes?
If the boar uses Charge, hit, Growl, Gore, Gore, Growl and generates 4000 threat in 2.4.1. and the mod isn't updated, that same sequence will generate 4000 threat in 2.4.2. as well according to the mod. However, since the _actual_ values have changed, the 4000 threat the mod reports are inaccurate.
That is, unless the mod has been updated to reflect the changes in 2.4.2. already.
Adam W May 8th 2008 7:52AM
If I remember correctly he's not actually using a meter. I believe he's mend petting his pet after he does X growls and measuring how much healing is done before the pet loses aggro. I remember reading that threat per healing of mend pet is a well established constant, so this would be fairly reliable unless they made an undocumented change to mend pet also.
Brommon May 8th 2008 8:03AM
Thanks for the info, Adam. Glad to know there's a method to the madness.
Further down in this comment list, jrb links to Mania's excellent summary of how she tests pet threat:
http://www.maniasarcania.com/2008/04/30/growl-testing-method/
As you say, it's all based on Mend Pet being such a well-known constant. And, knowing that, it's clear that The Mystic Hunter is doing the same thing, more or less.
Now if we just knew why Blizz is so very insistent that everything is fixed and yet all evidence says nothing has changed...
Frederik May 9th 2008 1:26PM
I'm guessing he's using the same method as Mania, described here:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=6136615005&sid=1
Kaljin May 7th 2008 10:09PM
Anyone, Kal is putting on his serious face now, after reading the PTR forums, it seems that Hortus has posted that pets don't generate any extra threat, but since threat no longer scales with PAP, it should decrease, unless the initial threat generated increases, which would show a loss in total threat as scaling is higher. Its obvious someone either a. Screwed up or b. Has their information wrong.
However, I am not very hopeful that they fix it, this isn't the first time a bug hasn't been fixed before the patch goes live.
Kaljin May 7th 2008 10:12PM
It seems like a needless thing, but its supposed to be anyway, not anyone.
Vanbhas May 7th 2008 10:35PM
I don't understand why they have to change the boar bug. It's not really hurting anything in the game, and it's been there for ages. I say leave it alone and let Ziggy, my hunter's piggy, be the best little tank he can be.
Balasan May 8th 2008 4:39AM
Nerfs are made because it *is* hurting something.
In this case, it's hurting the hunter's decision on picking their best pet to be used for soloing purposes. If hunters are picking up boars solely because they hold aggro way way better than other pets, then their aggro holding ability should be nerfed, and the aggro holding capabilities of other pets should be buffed.
The competition for Max raid DPS pets, for example is a close one, with Ravagers, Wind Serpents, Cats and Raptors all very viable options.
zygote May 8th 2008 11:17AM
First off, why can't we do nested replies? What is this, 1999?
Balasan said...
"In this case, it's hurting the hunter's decision on picking their best pet to be used for soloing purposes. If hunters are picking up boars solely because they hold aggro way way better than other pets, then their aggro holding ability should be nerfed, and the aggro holding capabilities of other pets should be buffed."
This is a bogus argument and can be applied to almost every pet and variable in the game.
Before ravagers people picked cats because they were the maximum DPS. Going further into that subset, people picked Broken Tooth because of the attack speed and caster push back. So Blizz nerfed. We got the infamous "pet normalization."
But let's throw attack speed, pursuit speed — another nerf — out the window. Almost all pets have special skills, here we bow our head in sadness for the Mighty Spore Bat, that allow them to do things that others can't.
Gorilla's Thunderstomp is an AOE aggro generating tool which allowed hunters to maintain and hold multiple mobs.
I think the birds have a similar skill — don't know, can't stand all that damned flapping.
Cats have prowl. Scorpids have poison. Ravagers...well ravagers are just fracking ugly.
They all have things that differentiate them from the other types of pets. For the boar it was charge and the big aggro boost that went with it. Other than that it's just a middle of the road pet that nobody will get because a cat/ravager will ALWAYS out dps it.
By taking away the boar's aggro building ability you aren't helping a hunter's pet choice option — you're essentially negating it. There is no advantage to a boar. Get in line, take a number, and tame a cat, NEXT!
Your philosophy opens up the door for future pet "normalization" where we'll all be given weighted companion cubes at level 10 with the exact same stats, same look and same abilities.
Maybe on the bizzaro server you inhabit there are armies of hunters, with bacon as far as the eye can see — on mine I see maybe one other boar a day.
Other than that, it's just one big litter box.
Dunhear and Clank