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5-10-2008 @ 11:55AM
This is the purest kind of crap that I find pretty much reprehensible about a VIDEO GAME.The fact that you have to submit yourself to this sort of culture just to play a game that you're paying money to play in the first place, is endemic of the entire problem with large scale raids in general. Large raids were ONLY implemented in Everquest because they had to give people a reason to subscribe, and they had to make the VERY VERY small amount of content extremely difficult to conquer, because their development couldn't match the ability of players to band together to demolish it. So, this pathetic culture sprung up where a game is supposed to take such magnificent priority over everything else, including just enjoying the game with your friends. It failed in a big way, as Everquest never really caught on with the mainstream gaming population since most people aren't really willing to go with that vibe. WoW is popular solely because of the fact that you can play in small groups very very often without having to devote your life to a video game. There simply sholudn't BE a culture that if you can't devote yourself to a "team" that you shouldn't be allowed to play the game. I'm paying the same amount of money, and in most cases I'm putting in the same amount of time and know the same amount about the game if not more than the average "high end" raider. Yet, because I have two jobs and a full time girlfriend I'm not allowed to play in "your" game because I don't choose to devote myself to another entity in a video game? It's a pretty absurd thought and I don't know how you can really write those words as justification. Going along with the herd only justifies Blizzard's reasoning for putting the content in as such. It's not surprising why it's been allowed to happen thus far, as their entire raid game is based around the college kid from 10 years ago that loved to stay up until 5AM every night drinking mountain dew and raiding with 57 other people in Everquest. Finally, it looks like smart marketing and management are getting through to the raid team and the success of 10-man raids and the utter failure of 25-man raids has proven to Blizzard that there's a lot more profit in catering to the most people in the game. Wowjutsu.com proves to me that 25-man raids and the entirely lame culture you describe are NOT the way most people want to play and rather than you telling them to get lost, Blizzard is telling you to stop taking the game so seriously and giving everyone else alternatives to actually enjoying the game that you refuse to give them. There's no reason you can't have a relaxed 25-man guild with 50-60 people who rotate in and out when it's convenient. It's just the stupid monkey see, monkey do culture that promotes the idea that if you ACT like the top tier raid guilds who eat, sleep, and breathe raids you're suddenly going to wake up one day and BE one of the top raid guilds no matter what. But is it all worth it?I don't think it is. I'm glad Blizzard is changing things to give the "rest of us" a way to play the game we're wanting to play, without having to deal with this crap. I can easily get a 10-man group with my friends with absolutely no pressure at all any week. 25-mans, I'm going to have to fill out an application and be judged by people I don't even know in order to get shiny crap in a video game? Nope! Never going to happen. You'd love to have someone like me in your group. I'm a dedicated player, I study the game a lot, I understand the mechanics, the math and as much of the game as I think someone can, but I'm not going to denigrate myself to apply to be someone's game buddy. I'm not going to make arbitrary promises to be in a video game every night of the week for 5hours a night. I'll show up when I can, and I'll show up when I say I can show up, but I'm not going to give you some sort of obsessive compulsive dedication to a video game. The difference in WoW raiding, and competitive sports, is that you're going to win something if you're good at Bowling. You'll get in a tournament, you'll take home a trophy that lasts far longer than Tier 5 armor, you'll win money, whatever. My girlfriend rides horses competitively and she has a wall full of ribbons to show for it that nobody can take away, and kinda has a real horse too. She puts in a lot of work, she's good at what she does. If you win high places in a big horse show, you actually get money or other prizes. What are you getting out of WoW at the end of the day that shows your dedication was all worth it? All your loot goes away, nothing's permanent (not even PVP titles!), and ultimately you're left with nothing but the experience that you put in significant effort into a video game that leaves you with nothing in a very short amount of time. The raid culture needs to change. Drastically. I'm glad it finally is, and the coffin in the nail to hardcore 25-man raiding will be the fact that 10-man raids can accomplish the same content. You're going to see the talent pool dry up for 25-mans and I'm betting as much as %10 of the 25-man guilds will remain after everyone decides that since it's not the ONLY way to get new gear and see new content, it just won't be worth the amount of nonsense that goes on. Enjoy it while it lasts!
5-10-2008 @ 12:52PM
QFT. This whole comment hits the nail right on the head. I'm all for treating other people with respect and not wanting to waste other peoples' time, but this commentator is totally right in that the culture surrounding raids is entirely the byproduct of a marketing / product design strategy that is increasingly showing itself to be obsolete. There are other ways of eating up my free time and getting me to shell out $15 a month than forcing me to (a) raid with 24 other people or (b) make a dozen alts. Blizzard seems to be getting that and I hope they continue with the trend. That a whole culture has grown up around the former, and which justifies itself with arguments about "respecting your team" and "committing to others," is just plain silly.
5-10-2008 @ 2:56PM
Wow, dont even know where to start. Its pretty much all incorrect though.This Dave guy sounds like the bitter kind of person we don't let in our guild. Maybe he has been 'wronged' by some raid guild he tried to join in the past, only to be turned away for being a jackass.The end of 25 man raiding? Put down the crack pipe, its not doing you any good.
5-10-2008 @ 3:40PM
I sense much anger in this one.I really don't get the rage against the raiding game. "I hate raiding because I don't have time to do it/ I can't get 24 people to agree to my lack of commitment." That seems more like a personal issue than a game mechanic problem. I went from raiding t5 when I was working part-time to doing Kara on my alt one or two nights a week when I started a new job. Would I have liked to continue progressing, even though I'm working 50-60 hours a week instead of 20? Sure. Can I be a semi-serious raider and manage a company at the same time? No. Is that the game's fault? Absolutely not.As far as applications and commitments go, yes, even casual guilds have apps. Why not? Do you expect to join people you don't know, possibly being a detriment to their game time, purely on a "I need a guild" post in trade? You think a guild shouldn't be allowed to check your spec, gear, and grasp of the English language before accepting you? Entitlement at its finest. And sure, 75 people can join up to raid 25-man content 1 or 2 nights a week, whoever can make it can make it. But the likelyhood is that either 25 people are going to show up on a regular basis and you're going to complain about not getting a spot over someone who shows up every week, or less than 25 are going to show up on a regular basis, get fed up with the rest of you, and go join another guild.Some people can dedicate more time to this game than others. Some people have different goals in this game than others. Some people *like* raiding on a regular schedule with people they know and trust. Some processes and procedures have been instituted by the community themselves as a way to make the best of their time in this game. So it goes.
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