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5-13-2008 @ 11:25AM
Does anyone really think that casuals will be able to go up the 10-man ladder? Let me tell you something: a guild that clears ZA is not casual, it is small.
5-13-2008 @ 1:16PM
Totally agree, ZA is hard stuff. It'd be nice if they had a T6 level 10 man, so small guilds could actually progress in the game and see a bunch of stuff, and still be able to go to BT via guild alliance or what-not. I think the Wraith raiding idea is spot on. Short 5mans (ala SM), easily accessable, 10 mans at all tiers. This is all win. I feel sad for those who struggled to get to BT through the tradition path with attunement, but they know what they've done and can feel proud on server-first kills and the like.
5-13-2008 @ 1:29PM
I think most of the frustration over this issue comes from the assertion that casual means unskilled, and hardcore means skilled. As far as I'm concerned skill, and dedication to time played are two different qualities. I know people who are completely hardcore about WoW but despite their desire to raid, will never be able to. They are just completely unskilled, and no amount of practice seems to help them. Instead they spend countless hours playing the game leveling every class, and all of their toons have epic fliers, and they are still sitting on piles of gold. One guy in particular I knew was like this, but was also constantly demanding spots in guild raids (but could never pull his weight), and talked about how things were in the beta and back when he raided MC. I'm sorry, but you don't get to come if you are mage and refuse to learn that arcane missles are not a good choice on curator. I told him countless times, and he acknowledged me countless times, and he continued to use them countless times.Now, on the other side of the coin, I know people who approach WoW very casually with limited and unpredictable play times who are very skilled at the game. These people will not be helped by allowing 10-man versions of raids because they can't commit to a 10-man raiding schedule any more than they could a 25-man one. If they could raid at all, they would have no problem in a 25-man.The people who will be helped the most from 10-man progression will be the semi-hardcore skilled players in smaller guilds who don't want to deal with the logistics and recruitment issues of fielding 25-man raids. These are the guilds that clear ZA without having stepped in a 25-man raid, and are sitting there twiddling their thumbs now wishing there was more to do. Believe it or not, having 10 good players and trying to recruit 15 more good players of the right classes is not trivial. Still, these players are not casual. My guild is in this situation, and to fight the boredom we have been banding together with other similar guilds for joint 25-man outings. I have to say that 25-mans don't feel all that special to me. I prefer the 10-man because to me it is a much more challenging experience. The smaller the group, the more your individual performance matters. The only thing I've noticed is the complexities of the fights are often more interesting in 25-man raids, but that is just a choice on Blizzards part, and not a consequence of having 24 people along with me.I guess my point is that 10-man raids in WotLK won't appeal to casuals unless they are so easy and quick that LFG would be a viable tool for approaching them. I only say easy because no one will PuG something if it is just going to be a wipe-fest, and unless lots of people are PuGing, casuals wont be able to find groups that meet their playtime needs.Things that appeal to casuals are things that can be done quickly at their convenience. Some of these things should be easy for unskilled casuals, and some of them should be challenging for the skilled ones.For unskilled hardcore players, there needs to continue to be obscure rep grinds for useless rewards.
5-13-2008 @ 2:54PM
I think you underestimate casual players.There isn't one kind of casual player or guild, and depending on which one you look at you'll see a very different picture.There are the casuals who never have enough time on any given day to participate in a raid.There are the casuals who can occasionally get the time together to do a raid, but not often.There are the casuals who are only on one day of the week, and that's raid day.There are the casuals who can raid consistently on a given day, and pop on and off throughout the week.There are lots of casuals, and how quickly a casual guild progresses will depend on the guild makeup.Yes, this will be significantly slower in all cases than a group of ten or fifteen good friends who fall somewhere inbetween casual and hardcore. Some casuals will certainly not be able to get all the way through to Arthas before the next expansion, but to assume that no casuals will succeed is silly given that there are currently casual guilds and raiding alliances (though not many) that are through T5.
5-13-2008 @ 4:32PM
I don't see what is casual about showing up to a play a game at a scheduled time. Once a week certainly isn't hardcore, but there are degrees between casual and hardcore.
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