The gear thing is BS. I have a casual relationship with my current Sunwell guild that's on phase 2 of Muru as of tonight. I know what hardcore raiders care about and I understand the community. Are there condescending jokes and whines being made about badge and pvp gear? Sure. But it really isn't a big deal to them. They have almost the exact opposite attitude actually. They're constantly looking for ways to maximize their character in every way possible. And if they can do that by farming badges or trying to get a high arena rating then they will. Most raiders do both 25 mans and 10 mans for badges.

And nobody likes long attunements. Just cuz some whiney guilds out there do doesn't mean they represent the majority. Did you like doing SSC and TK again for new recruits? People moaned about that in my guild all the time.

You guys honestly overly exagerate how hard it is to get raid gear. Gear has been made easier to get in -general-. Not just through pvp and badge farming. Last time I checked we have half as many people to compete for loot for since 60 WOW. ~Three~ gear set tokens drop that several classes can use. And the itemization is much smarter now. So getting all high and mighty about TBC raid gear is absurd. And maybe you should look up the story about a guild called "pve is hard". They were a bunch of pvp addicts who formed a raid guild to prove that raid gear is just as easy if not easier to get. They cleared -every- single 25 man raid boss from SSC to BT including Illidan and Archimonde in less than 2 weeks...

The idea that's become so popular that pvp gear is so easy to get is nonsense. All that honor gear costs over 100k honor easily. That's ~a lot~ of /played time. And guess what, it's only good in ~PVP~. The S3 arena sets require several months to obtain and the weapons have rating requirements. And on top of that they have to farm 60 badges for their cloak. Do you have a full set of S3 gear jennie? If it's sooo easy to get then go get it.

I'd rather grind for full T6 in a 25 man raid guild over grinding for a full set of S3 gear any day. And I can speak from experience since I've actually done both unlike you.

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