Scattered Shots: Got mana?
Scattered Shots is temporarily subtitled "Scattered Thoughts" this week, as David goes off on a speculative tangent. Perhaps all this expansion leakage is causing a leak in his brain too, but hey, a little bit of intellectual pondering never hurt anyone, right? This column is for hunters, by the way -- but, yeah... you knew that.
After writing last week's article about hunter problems and predictions, I got to thinking about how hunters use mana, and reflecting on the question of whether hunters should be using mana or not. Hunters have many things in common with classes like rogues and warriors, such as doing physical damage, and yet they have much in common with mages and warlocks as well, such as being vulnerable to mana-draining abilities. This issue is vague enough that my observations here can only be considered personal opinions, and they won't be of interest if all you want from this column is a list of the greatest gear and talent builds. But for the speculative among us, there's lots to discuss here.
How does it feel?
While, of course there are other classes do damage with mana, hunters are the only class where it doesn't really make sense. Enhancement shamans and retribution paladins, for example, still have a sense that they are casting spells when they use mana, while hunters need mana for shooting poisoned arrows and laying down traps -- activities which (aside from Arcane Shot) should logically require more technical know-how than arcane energy. It would make more sense for a hunter to prepare traps and arrows ahead of time much like a rogue prepares poisons, or at least to spend some other sort of non-magical energy on them -- but that, of course, would make the class feel very differently, wouldn't it? Could we argue that some sort of change to the mana system for hunters would make things better? Or, on the other hand, if the mana system ain't broke, should we really even think about fixing it, regardless of how "illogical" it might feel? Heaven knows there are all sorts of illogical things about the game and class mechanics already.
And yet this issue isn't really about logical realism so much as it is about look and feel. It's a different kind of logical sense that says hunters shouldn't use mana -- not like a voice saying, "But hunters wouldn't use mana in real life!" so much as a nagging feeling that mana doesn't feel very hunterly. It's as if a mage could walk around with a massive two-handed axe, or death knights could inscribe their unholy runes on a fishing pole. It doesn't really feel like something your class would do.
Naturally, of course, however it feels, that's just exactly what our class is doing as we speak. The game says that hunters use mana now -- and you could easily make the argument that it ain't worth the trouble to go about changing the mana system for something else with hunters. Indeed, such a change might cause more problems than it solves.
Know them limits
But what are the problems hunters have with mana, other than just that feeling some of us have that it doesn't "feel right?" Hunters complain that they run out of mana too soon, in long fights, or that we have to give up our attack bonuses (such as Aspect of the Hawk) in order to get more longevity out of our mana pool. In truth, however, this kind of tradeoff seems like one of the intentional choices Blizzard has built into the hunter class -- short bursts of lots of ranged damage, or more sustainable damage over a longer period of time. Some hunters may not enjoy making the choice, but as a game mechanism, it's actually a pretty good one. All the power mechanisms for special abilities in the game have limitations that nobody likes. Mana users hate running out of mana, of course, but warriors hate the feeling that they can't build up rage fast enough sometimes, and rogues hate having to wait for energy to replenish before they can get off their finishing moves. No matter what power mechanism you have, there will always be some limiting factor involved -- if it isn't the particular set of limitations you have now, then it would be something else, perhaps even worse from the current complainers' point of view. You can do some of the damage all of the time, or all of the damage some of the time, but you can't do all of the damage all of the time.
A friend of mine that was around when WoW was still in early early beta claims that hunters used to have some kind of aiming bar, which allowed us to use our abilities depending on how long we had been standing still, "taking aim." (Can any readers back this up, perhaps?) Apparently, this was back before we even had pets, so who knows -- and obviously, however this idea might have worked at first, it got tanked pretty quickly. Hunters are much more fun when they're able to move around a lot -- in fact moving around quickly and using all the space you've got is one of the most interesting things about being a hunter, and with abilities like Steady Shot, standing still does have its perks in many situations.
So other than the feeling that mana doesn't quite fit the hunter class, and aside from the untenable complaint that hunter limitations aren't fair for some reason, the only real problem I see with hunters and mana is that it forces us to take account of our intellect when choosing our gear. To be honest, however, abilities like Aspect of the Viper go a long way, in my experience, to help counterbalance a relatively small mana pool, and I don't mind using mana potions just like mages do. To me, mana potions feel more useful than either thistle tea for rogues or rage potions for warriors. Shot for shot, it just seems that we can get a lot more use out of them, and they feel a lot easier to get a hold of too.
Sad pandas
So here I am, having said all this, basically convincing myself that it's better to keep the mana system than to try and switch it out for something else -- and I find myself a little bit saddened by this realization. The feeling that mana just isn't hunter-like doesn't exactly make me cry myself to sleep every night, but it persists. It floats up to the top of my mind every now and then and wiggles about. I look on jealously as death knights get not one, but two different power bars underneath their character portraits -- one bar for runes and one for "runic power" -- it just doesn't seem fair! I want a special bar and nifty combos too! Death knights are cool and all, but in my heart I want hunters to be cooler! If Blizzard announced today that Wrath of the Lich King will replace hunters' mana with rainbow-colored Pew-Pew-Powa, I would smile and read on about it eagerly before admitting to myself or anyone else that it may not be such a good idea.
I guess I'll just have to mark this little desire (or is it just envy?) for special hunta-powa as one of those "Oh wells" in life. Yeah, it would have been nice if it could have been possible, but alas, the rules aren't likely to get changed this late in the game. I think I'll just pretend that hunter mana isn't so much magical energy as it is a rough measure of cunning and preparation in battle, and I'll suggest any other hunter who doesn't like mana-usage do the same.
There's more to Scattered Shots than meets the eye! If rambling is making you feel down in the dumps and hungry for some hardcore analysis, check out the best professions and weapons for a hunter. Otherwise snack on a cookie and have a look at what we love most about being hunters.
After writing last week's article about hunter problems and predictions, I got to thinking about how hunters use mana, and reflecting on the question of whether hunters should be using mana or not. Hunters have many things in common with classes like rogues and warriors, such as doing physical damage, and yet they have much in common with mages and warlocks as well, such as being vulnerable to mana-draining abilities. This issue is vague enough that my observations here can only be considered personal opinions, and they won't be of interest if all you want from this column is a list of the greatest gear and talent builds. But for the speculative among us, there's lots to discuss here.
How does it feel?
While, of course there are other classes do damage with mana, hunters are the only class where it doesn't really make sense. Enhancement shamans and retribution paladins, for example, still have a sense that they are casting spells when they use mana, while hunters need mana for shooting poisoned arrows and laying down traps -- activities which (aside from Arcane Shot) should logically require more technical know-how than arcane energy. It would make more sense for a hunter to prepare traps and arrows ahead of time much like a rogue prepares poisons, or at least to spend some other sort of non-magical energy on them -- but that, of course, would make the class feel very differently, wouldn't it? Could we argue that some sort of change to the mana system for hunters would make things better? Or, on the other hand, if the mana system ain't broke, should we really even think about fixing it, regardless of how "illogical" it might feel? Heaven knows there are all sorts of illogical things about the game and class mechanics already.
And yet this issue isn't really about logical realism so much as it is about look and feel. It's a different kind of logical sense that says hunters shouldn't use mana -- not like a voice saying, "But hunters wouldn't use mana in real life!" so much as a nagging feeling that mana doesn't feel very hunterly. It's as if a mage could walk around with a massive two-handed axe, or death knights could inscribe their unholy runes on a fishing pole. It doesn't really feel like something your class would do.
Naturally, of course, however it feels, that's just exactly what our class is doing as we speak. The game says that hunters use mana now -- and you could easily make the argument that it ain't worth the trouble to go about changing the mana system for something else with hunters. Indeed, such a change might cause more problems than it solves.
Know them limits
But what are the problems hunters have with mana, other than just that feeling some of us have that it doesn't "feel right?" Hunters complain that they run out of mana too soon, in long fights, or that we have to give up our attack bonuses (such as Aspect of the Hawk) in order to get more longevity out of our mana pool. In truth, however, this kind of tradeoff seems like one of the intentional choices Blizzard has built into the hunter class -- short bursts of lots of ranged damage, or more sustainable damage over a longer period of time. Some hunters may not enjoy making the choice, but as a game mechanism, it's actually a pretty good one. All the power mechanisms for special abilities in the game have limitations that nobody likes. Mana users hate running out of mana, of course, but warriors hate the feeling that they can't build up rage fast enough sometimes, and rogues hate having to wait for energy to replenish before they can get off their finishing moves. No matter what power mechanism you have, there will always be some limiting factor involved -- if it isn't the particular set of limitations you have now, then it would be something else, perhaps even worse from the current complainers' point of view. You can do some of the damage all of the time, or all of the damage some of the time, but you can't do all of the damage all of the time.
A friend of mine that was around when WoW was still in early early beta claims that hunters used to have some kind of aiming bar, which allowed us to use our abilities depending on how long we had been standing still, "taking aim." (Can any readers back this up, perhaps?) Apparently, this was back before we even had pets, so who knows -- and obviously, however this idea might have worked at first, it got tanked pretty quickly. Hunters are much more fun when they're able to move around a lot -- in fact moving around quickly and using all the space you've got is one of the most interesting things about being a hunter, and with abilities like Steady Shot, standing still does have its perks in many situations.
So other than the feeling that mana doesn't quite fit the hunter class, and aside from the untenable complaint that hunter limitations aren't fair for some reason, the only real problem I see with hunters and mana is that it forces us to take account of our intellect when choosing our gear. To be honest, however, abilities like Aspect of the Viper go a long way, in my experience, to help counterbalance a relatively small mana pool, and I don't mind using mana potions just like mages do. To me, mana potions feel more useful than either thistle tea for rogues or rage potions for warriors. Shot for shot, it just seems that we can get a lot more use out of them, and they feel a lot easier to get a hold of too.
Sad pandas
So here I am, having said all this, basically convincing myself that it's better to keep the mana system than to try and switch it out for something else -- and I find myself a little bit saddened by this realization. The feeling that mana just isn't hunter-like doesn't exactly make me cry myself to sleep every night, but it persists. It floats up to the top of my mind every now and then and wiggles about. I look on jealously as death knights get not one, but two different power bars underneath their character portraits -- one bar for runes and one for "runic power" -- it just doesn't seem fair! I want a special bar and nifty combos too! Death knights are cool and all, but in my heart I want hunters to be cooler! If Blizzard announced today that Wrath of the Lich King will replace hunters' mana with rainbow-colored Pew-Pew-Powa, I would smile and read on about it eagerly before admitting to myself or anyone else that it may not be such a good idea.
I guess I'll just have to mark this little desire (or is it just envy?) for special hunta-powa as one of those "Oh wells" in life. Yeah, it would have been nice if it could have been possible, but alas, the rules aren't likely to get changed this late in the game. I think I'll just pretend that hunter mana isn't so much magical energy as it is a rough measure of cunning and preparation in battle, and I'll suggest any other hunter who doesn't like mana-usage do the same.
Filed under: Hunter, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Wrath of the Lich King, (Hunter) Scattered Shots, Humor







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Aurigo May 22nd 2008 6:28PM
"thoughtbot" should be spelled "thottbot" in the picture :)
Saelorn May 22nd 2008 6:08PM
Either rogue-style energy or pet-style focus would be fine, in my opinion. I'm sure the hunter's shooting arm would get just as tired as the rogue's stabbing arm, and they don't really have the adrenaline thing that makes sense for warriors.
Of course, as much as it hurts that hunters get short-changed when itemizing for mana, at least they have that option. It bothers me that rogues can't gear up for more energy, or faster recovery, no matter how they try, and I'm not eager to see hunters in that position.
jbodar May 22nd 2008 6:30PM
The problem with going energy-based is that everything would have to be rebalanced around shot rotations. 20 Energy is replenished every 2 seconds - unlike the 5SR. I haven't taken the time to do the math but it seems like using a shot rotation would be screwed up with this system. Depending on translated energy costs, either Hunters would be able to go forever with no limitation on damage output, or would be stuck waiting on the energy pulse, which would mess up the rotation or Hunters would have to change the standard ones.
Hunters can correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems like "fail" either way. It's just the way hunter abilities are designed. INT is the way to make hunters choose between "high output" and "can go forever", or somewhere in between.
Calybos May 22nd 2008 6:46PM
Hunters don't cast spells. They do PHYSICAL damage, ergo they should use energy. And the energy "stat" should be Agility, not Intellect.
Yes, this would require rebalancing with the Rogues' energy procession and costs... but so what? Blizzard is tweaking and twiddling with rates and percentages all the time. Go for it! Make Hunters the physical combatants they always were... use Energy!
hellshire May 22nd 2008 7:22PM
Speaking as a rogue, and thus a veteran to the energy system, I can tell you it would cause your shot rotation to go to hell and back. You wouldn't be able to pull off a 1:1 or even 3:2 auto/steady rotation and your talents would have to be heavily revised.
Rogues are all about gaining combo points to keep rupture and snd up as much as possible. Our energy returns are pretty random (20 per 2 seconds + relentless strike procs + Combat Potency procs). It doesn't matter when we get energy, so long as we have enough to keep rotation going.
Hunter are all about consistancy and timing (lolmacromash). You start off with a big pool of mana and use it up as the fight goes on to keep up your stead:auto rotation.
Giving hunters energy would be as broken as giving rogues rage.
jbodar May 22nd 2008 10:29PM
@Calybos
What's Arcane Shot then? Viper Sting? Hunters have guns/bows, yes. However, they are using magic to amplify them above and beyond what a rogue or warrior can do with those same weapons.
Calybos May 22nd 2008 10:49PM
And Rogues can do things with daggers that hunters and warriors never dreamed of. That doesn't mean they're casting spells.
MechChef May 23rd 2008 10:19AM
As a rogue-advocate, I would love a larger energy pool, and ways to itemize up my energy regen. But doing so would probably be overpowered. I guess that's why adrenaline-rush is a 7th tier talent. It's scary how easy I can draw aggro off my tank on a raid boss if I feel careless enough to unload blade-flurry and AR at the same time. (naturally slice-and-dice is also running, and I'll surely get a single or maybe double mongoose proc).
Anyway, I think mana might be a cop-out for hunters, but I guess it was simply the easiest solution.
STereo May 27th 2008 2:12PM
If Blizz changed something as fundamental as making a mana class into an energy class that class would be broken for a year or two before they got it figured out. Especially if it's not a class that the developers themselves favor. Hunters should be fixed as simply as possible so Blizz can't mess it up. Excellent suggestions in forums go unheeded by Blizzard.
Timothy May 22nd 2008 6:13PM
Good post, I like it. The only thing I'd really like to see different is more use of Intellect as a stat, if nothing else at all. However, don't ask me how to do that, I'm clueless.
JohnC May 22nd 2008 6:43PM
perhaps like mages intellect affects their spell power (cant remember how as i dont have one:() but its something like spell crit. so hunters intellect could also play a more vital role like this an add to our ranged attack power some how in a similar way mages are affected by intellect
Anaughtybear May 22nd 2008 6:15PM
It would be nice to have a larger mana pool, but it isn't that big of a deal. Auto-Shot works with or without mana, caster spells do not. Hunters have enough tricks to fall back on to survive in situations of low mana. And yes, my main is a hunter.
Iwanttobeasleep May 22nd 2008 6:46PM
I way prefer autoshotting for a bit while I regen some mana than I did switching to wands, although with a wand casters still can do DPS.
PimpyMicPimp May 22nd 2008 10:15PM
You have a great grasp of your class. Like I said in last weeks article, no class is perfect, but Hunters certainly arn't the gimpest class out there.
Rob May 22nd 2008 6:17PM
Not to QQ too much, but I feel that us Hunters are the ones with the heftiest bills during raiding. We need flasks, check. We guzzle fel mana pots, check. We need food buffs, check. We need tons of ammo, check. We wear mail, so our repair bills aren't cheap either. Add pet food plus mana oil.
The only class that would compete with us would be tanks, and they don't have to buy ammo, or pet food. Further, how about mana consumption? It's not uncommon for me to drink 3-4 fel mana pots in a T5 fight. That stuff adds up quick. What about mages and so forth? I don't have a feel for how much mana they burn. My guess is mages are up there with us as far as mana burn.
I think I burn abuot 200g per raid on all this stuff. (2 flasks, 20 fel mana, 1 oil, 1 stack pet food, 24 stacks of ammo) The flasks and fel mana pots aren't cheap. Plus with progression content, you could easily wipe 5 times on a boss and chug 2 pots each time. That hurts, baby. Thank the lord for dailies.
Chamual Jun 20th 2008 7:38PM
You might shoot your gold off with every shot but I have lost count of times the hunter feins death on a wipe and saves the 10% damage to all gear. And as you are a ranged damage dealer you shouldn't get hit to often meaning your gear doesn't get damaged.
Back on topic, I don't mind hunters having mana. Mana is just the magical energy of Azeroth and it makes sense that hunters tap into to enhance their shots, it's all there is available for them to tap into. Energy isn't right because it's not as if standing there shooting is as hard work as whirlwinding a couple of daggers round for 10-15 minutes....
Urthona May 22nd 2008 6:18PM
I anticipate that one of the reasons we haven't seen much in the way of Hunter and Shaman changes in WOTLK is because there's huge changes in the works for mail armor class itemization.
As for Hunter Focus being a reasonable resource:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2215452993&sid=1
Fascinating read for anyone who plays, or plays with, a Hunter.
Umrtvovac May 22nd 2008 6:25PM
Okey, pandas are really sad... but what does it have to do with us, hunters? oh noes, i forgot, i am hunter no more, i got banned in last ban wave, thats what i call sad... this and pandas
Zeplar May 22nd 2008 6:46PM
Thanks for the video
Aigarius May 22nd 2008 6:48PM
Hunters summon their arrows (all except the autoshot ones) and traps out of thin air thus using mana to do it. For poisoned arrows, you summon poison and magically put it on the arrow in your bow.