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The latest patch 5.4 newsAsk WoW Insider: Casual Raiding -- does it exist?
by Mark Crump 
May 26th 2008 at 9:00AM
Welcome to today's edition of Ask WoW Insider, in which we publish your questions for dissection by the peanut gallery -- now with extra snark and commentary by one of our writers. This week Anonymous writes in:
A long, long time ago I dinged level 70. At that time I was in a guild that only had a select group of level 70 players and we tried to make the best of what we had. I had tons of fun discovering all the level 70 dungeons, and finally also the heroics, as a tank (which I rolled due to the tank-shortage). After a while our guild started to attract more level 70 players and we started raiding Kara. Something we never expected to happen since we were nothing like a raiding guild. After clearing Kara we soon moved up to ZA which we cleared with the regular 10 people we pretty much always ran raids with. After this many people started aching for 25mans, and we merged with another guild. We downed Gruul on our first try, piece of cake. Then things started to go bad. We were raiding casually, 2 to 3 nights a week of Kara and ZA. Most people in our guild were casuals (only available about 1 to 2 nights a week to raid) who were really psyched we got a chance to raid. Of course we had a base of "hard-core" raiders. They wanted more and things started to bubble up. Then came the worst news ever, our guild would disband. Our guild leader couldn't do his tasks any more due to a busy schedule out of WoW and he didn't have fun in playing anymore.
Our guild disbanded and many players moved on. I as one of the casuals got left behind. We are all very over geared for the content we were raiding due to farming ZA and Kara for so long we could easily afford the new 2.4 badge loot and of course we'd have a lot of drops from ZA. Most people were easily accepted into MH/BT raiding guilds. However these end-game (even the SSC/TK raiding guilds on my realm) have requirements if you wish to raid, you need to attend at least 3 times a week. I, and a lot of other casuals, simply can't do this due to engagements besides WoW. I've gone on a quest to find a casual raiding guild. I had no luck.
First I applied to a guild that seemed okay with my requirements, however they didn't need more tanks and denied me. After a while a spot for a tank came up, but they just aren't progressing, at all, so I declined. I couldn't bear the thought of raiding Kara or ZA one more time, I wanted 25man content. So I joined another guild, which turned out to be total chaos. Sure, I could raid there, but when they raided it took all night to down one boss, I left. Now I've joined another guild, which draws a line between "Casual" and "Raider" like many other guilds tend to do. As a casual (even though I'm geared as a raider) I won't get invited into any 25man raids apart from the "lower" content such as Gruul, which I've already seen one too many times. This guild is currently clearing MH/BT and were actually looking for an extra raiding tank, however I couldn't get invited into the raids being a casual (not even two nights a week) so they keep looking.
Now I ask you, WoW Insider, where do I find a freaking guild that makes me raid 25man content with the not so many nights a week I have? This is getting urgent, since I'm now finishing my Netherwing rep grind and have nothing else to do besides raiding in this game and it's starting to turn me away from a game I love playing.
Yours sincerely,
Anonymous.
I'm not sure exactly sure why you're not getting invited to raids: are they raiding on nights you can't raid, or, are the slots on nights you can raid going to those who raid more?
Finding a guild that's right for you is likely to take some legwork. While I've had good luck using my server's forums, I've never tried to find a raiding guild there. One other thought I had is doing doing a /who <instance> during the times that right for you, seeing what guilds raiding and checking out their web sites.
In answer to your subject: Does Casual Raiding Exist? Yeah, it does. My guild is fairly casual and we are working our way through the 25-mans. That said, if you're in my guild and can't raid weekends, you're pretty much screwed.
That said, I'm sure the regular raiders will have much better ideas, so I'll turn the floor over to them.
Got questions? Don't wait! Send them to us at ask AT wowinsider DOT com and your query could be up in lights here next week.
Filed under: Guilds, Raiding, Ask WoW Insider
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
perpetuah May 27th 2008 10:43AM
I belong to a family and friends guild; we only do weekend 10 man raids within the guild. However, we have a larger "sister" guild which more into progression. Swarfy mentions having "an association" with a bigger guild- maybe it's the same idea.
Some people in our sister guild have lowbie alts in our guild- they come for the relaxed banter and fun, and silly contests and events and stuff too. Some of them moved their mains into our guild when they had to slow down. So there's alot of back and forth.
It means, sometimes, the casual players in our guild get to participate in bigger raids.
I think having that relationship helps. Sometimes our guild's toons get drops from high end content, and we look like a guild into progression, but really we're not.
There were requests from people to make the guild bigger to allow for doing 25 man raid content- but we don't want to get bigger. So, those people take their mains to a bigger guild, but we're glad if they keep their alts with us, no worries.
Darudai May 27th 2008 11:36AM
As someone with a boomkin as their main (Alliance, server: Shattered Hand), I've had my fair share of trouble looking for a guild. Couple that in with the fact that I attend school while working full time, attempt to keep up dance training (I used to dance 5-6 days a week - I try for 2-3 now, which knocks out about 3 hours for that day), have a medical condition, and a bad internet connection with only a laptop (trans: no big monitor)...yeah, raiding is a bit of a tussle (and yes, I'm not making up my circumstances, WoW does attract all kinds of people).
I think, as many other people have pointed out, the issue comes down to the definition of "casual". Even if you only need to show up for 2-3 days a week, that's still 3-4 hours of your day that you are committing. Assuming that most adult players have 9 to 5 jobs and like to go to bed by midnight, a raid night means that you come in, you eat dinner, you play WoW, and that's it for your day. Add in a few days of farming, questing, instancing, alts, etc and you well end up making a commitment of 2-3 hours a day on average for those days as well. By the time you're finished doing all the math, you find out you've put in enough time for a part time job (10 - 23 hours a week). If you're the kind of person who plays at least 4 hours a day, more on the weekends, you're looking at upwards of 35+ hours a week. Also, the high end raids really are complex and to try to do it without a screen full of mods, no Vent/etc, and a fas connection is very difficult (doable, perhaps, but not favorable). So you're also looking at a hefty technology investment and hopefully no family/roommates hogging the internet.
Thus, the real question is, when will Blizzard truly make options for everyone, from the solo player to the social mastermind? My friends and I have often wished that there would be 1 or 3 man versions of dungeons for days when the whole server is just too lazy/picky to make 5 mans. Or sometimes we really wish that we didn't have to sit in Gruul's listening to someone yell at us in Spanish for 4 hours - I know a good group can get it done in 45 minutes or less, but when you're just starting it out, it seems to take forever. And even a speed Kara seems to require 3-4 hours. Never mind the learning curve for a heroic for a newbie PUG. Even for those in a guild - unless the officers are extremely high minded, fair, and know everyone in the guild, it's the ones who are on all the time, chatting it up, helping others, who are picked first for raids and other guild activities. Perhaps this is fair, but for the player who can only show up online 1-2 days a week...you get the picture.
Sorry to have vented the obvious - everyone who's posted has mentioned good points and I'm glad that people are thinking about the issue of guilds, "casual raiding", and access to content. I know that Shattered Hand is a lot more "old-school" than the server I play Horde on, Ravenholdt, but I shudder to think of the day that Ravenholdt has so many experienced players that they go "old-school". It's a pity that there aren't more solo or small group options for casual players and that so much content is locked up in long group activities. As many people have said, WoTLK should fix some of these issues, but that's still at least 5-6 months away...
Bynde May 27th 2008 2:46PM
I also am getting discouraged with this game. I hope I'm not getting bored, but in the 18 months I've been playing I 've gone into a total of 5 or 6 instances. Yep, that's it.
I just can't find the people to join. My Guild is very small and we don't laways have the people availble. Plus, we all middle-aged adults with trivial interests like families and jobs to pay attention to. My Druid is 70 and has been since Feb. And because I don't ever find anyone to dungeon/raid with, and I don't get what a "reputation grind " is , I am back enjoying my 18 level Holy Priest. It seems once you reach 70, and are not a social butterfly with a couple dozen friends online at all times, the Game Ends. Time to find something else to do.
And this is a little depressing because you work so hard to get to 70, then your whole qwst log is full over Dungeons that you can't do alone. It almost like you shouldn't hurry to reach 70 because the fun ends there.
And I've done more "Dailies" than the mayflower madam.
I guess there's always Solitaire and Mine Sweeper.
batgrl May 27th 2008 6:02PM
Not to sound unkind but...you're new into a guild, you can only play for 3 nights a week, but you don't want to go to any of the so-called "lower" content for you - and you're a tank? How is the guild you're new to supposed to be able to tell if you CAN tank? Believe me, there are a LOT of people who tell you they can tank and then...things end badly. (Not to mention the level 70s running around who are either purchased characters or who act that way.) A group of 25 people do not want to wait for a new member to both learn an instance that's new to them and then also find out that that new member just hasn't practiced enough.
You have two options - respec dps and then show people that you're intelligent enough to behave as a team player in a 25 man - or deal with the fact that you'll be tanking in content you've seen before. Once you run that content as a tank a few times and prove yourself, then you may find it easier to get into the 25 mans. But if you're going into guilds that raid more often than your schedule you will have to do the work to convince them that you not only know what you're doing but will be available to help them on all those 3 nights.
It's a team thing - and you have to prove your worth as a team member. That doesn't happen overnight.
Cynthrice May 28th 2008 12:43PM
I agree 100% with Batgrl. When I first joined Amangur Empire (Twisting Nether US Horde) I had to work my a** off in Kara for over a month before they would let me even try the 25 man content at the t4 lvl and I'm just DPS (no one needs a warlock right?). But eventually I proved my worth as a raider (and got some very nice gear in the process i might add). As a guild we try to do 2 25-mans a week but usually only get to go on Tuesdays and even then we are limited on tanks and how late people can stay. We just recently started TK again (VR, attemted Sol) and Hyjal(Rage and attempt on Ane) and weve cleared all the t4 content along with ZA. you can check our raid progress on the guild site at http://amangur.dkpsystem.com
But anyway, its all about proving that you can do your share before you get to take on the better content. =]
murtgahs May 28th 2008 8:10PM
My suggestion: start your own guild.
You could do this easy. I'm sure you could spare the gold for the bank, tabard, etc. You could also look for someone to build your site. I am a web builder up for hire (murtgahs@hotmail.com) and would gladly design a sit for you.
But wait! I don't have the time to run it. Do not fear, running a good guild is not that hard and if you want something to do while your not raiding, managing a guild is quite fun. The only thing you have to do is set up a good recruitment form that people must submit in order to join. Don't just ask questions about faction, class, etc. Make some question that ask the submitter to tell a good joke, what they would do if some one acted up on the guild chat, and most importantly, their age. I would suggest that you take care that most of the people in your guild are over 16, 18, or whatever age you desire. I would get some add ons to help manage time. Heres a list I would suggest that members must have to join:
Group calender-Managing raid times
Titan Panel Guild- Very help full for misc things.
Guild Ads- Helps track other members
You can set up your own raid times because the guild is yours. Hope all this helps!
The one, the only,
Murtgahs