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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBreakfast Topic: Do you pay attention to 25-man progression?
by Daniel Whitcomb 
May 28th 2008 at 8:00AM
I was having a discussion with my brother yesterday, and he was telling me that he really doesn't pay attention much to the raid game anymore. Back in Everquest, he used to be a pretty hardcore raider, part of a giant guild that could field raids of 100 or more people, ready to track down and kill bosses the minute they spawned (since they were never instanced, you only got kill each boss around once per a week on each server). Because so many people were needed, and you might not even get to kill some bosses some weeks because other groups would beat you, you might go months without loot.
Because of this, he says, he doesn't really care any more about server firsts or world firsts. The 25 man raids don't really interest him, and he doesn't feel like 25-man raiders are worthy of respect. They get loot at a much faster rate than he ever did, and even if they don't get the drop they want, they still get badges. There's probably other people like him. There's also other people who may ignore 25-mans because it really doesn't affect them. They run their 5 mans, maybe an occasional Karazhan, and they really don't care what people do beyond that.
Me, I tend to like to follow the 25-man raid scene. I enjoy hearing about world firsts, and I keep abreast of what guilds are doing on my server, as well. Our server forums have a progression post that almost everyone knows about and is regularly updated so that we always know who's killing what, and I'm always eager to hear who's killed what in Sunwell Plateau right now.
Why this is I can't really pin down in one reason. Perhaps this is in part because I used to be a raider, and still like to know what's going on in that part of the game. Perhaps it's because the main 25-man raid group of my guild alliance is one of the top on our server, having a few server seconds and thirds. But whatever it is, following raiding exploits has always been part of playing MMORPGs for me. I like to know what my server is doing, and how they're doing compared to everyone else.
So here's my questions: Do you follow world raiding progression? Do you follow your server's raiding progression? If you do, Why do you think you're interested in them, especially if you aren't taking part in them or aren't even in the raiding game? If not, why not? Is it just not your thing, or do you honestly think it's not worthy of any note that people have downed a raid boss for the first time?
Filed under: Realm News, Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Breakfast Topics, Instances, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Bendarik May 28th 2008 10:09AM
I don't pay much attention to it, no.
I'm glad that element of the gameplay is there for the folks who enjoy that sort of thing... but it's not for me. I can't schedule my life around planned raid dates any more.
kunukia May 28th 2008 10:09AM
Nope. I don't follow anything but my own raid group. World firsts are great, and I applaud every success people are having, but I don't follow it.
Myself, I can only handle short raids, due to problems focusing for hours at a time, so I run Gruul's and Mag's, but cannot go to even Kara, just because of the length. I am very excited that they are making the instances in WoTLK short, that means I will get to see more content. Hopefully some of the raids will also be short.
Milktub May 28th 2008 4:50PM
I don't care, but sort of do. I pay attention to firsts, only in that I also keep an eye out for other world firsts in the real world.
My own progression, I don't really care. If I cared, I'd change guilds -- SSC/TK guilds have expressed interest, but I'm pleased with the casual guild I've been with for a year, even if that means not getting past Curator with them.
Lephturn May 28th 2008 10:14AM
/shrug
I'd be just as happy if the biggest raid was a 10 man. Personally that is. I have no problem with raiders doing their 25 or 40 man thing, but I don't much care really.
I'd estimate it is a small % of the population that participate regularly in 25 man raid content. It seems to me a huge waste of resources to build all of this content that so few people will ever experience. I really like where they are going with Wrath, with all end game content being available as 5 or 10 mans in some form or another.
Mixx May 28th 2008 10:18AM
nah, I don't bother. I'm not really interested in who does what. I play with my friends, we have a great time. Pretty much sums it up for me. All the rest seems like overkill & BS in my opinion.
Ircasha May 28th 2008 10:23AM
If I didn't scan the article titles on this site, I wouldn't know much at all about raid progression in the game. It doesn't interest me in the least what others have done, unless it effects my gameplay (which it almost never does, except in instances of the AQ gates opening, etc).
I did used to be a hardcore raider back in my EQ days, but all that did was burn me out on raiding in general. I like that WoW doesn't require 100+ raids to do any end game content. That's a good thing if you enjoy raiding. Coordinating > 100 people at 2AM to down a boss before a competing guild can get to it is more an exercise in sheer frustration than 'fun'. But honestly, knowing where some pseudo-professional game guild is on raiding content I will more than likely never see is meaningless.
kw May 28th 2008 10:26AM
The extent to which I care is that when I see a post here where someone has killed a new boss, I think "good for them, wonder what the fight's like" then I forget about it. 25 man content is just out of my reach due to time constraints and sheer lack of desire to spend 4+ nights a week glued to my computer.
I used to be big on 40-man raiding pre-BC, and I burned out of that. My guild is in an interesting position.. we are casual and small, but with just a little extra effort we could go to Kara (we have 7 solid players, and have enough friends to fill out the other 3 spots). None of us really want to try to take that step right now so close to summer (so many people go on long trips) and so close to WotLK.
Now, knowing that everything in WotLK will have a 10-man component might get us motivated in the future, but there is no way that any of us wants the drama of dealing with 25 people.
I'd also like to see more 10-man stuff on the scale of UBRS. 4 bosses and it took around 1.5-2 hours depending on the quality of your group. Kara is too big for it to be truly casual (a clear for a casual guild normally takes 2 days).
.eO May 28th 2008 10:33AM
I don't really care about content that realistically I am never going to see. My guild is a small tight-knit community that cannot regularly get enough online for 25 man raids. We may be small but we are perfectly formed and have been together for years playing several other mmos prior to this. Since we are not interested in diluting our membership we are never going to progress. I do feel this is a major design mistake from Blizz as right now it is pushing us away from WoW.
Bynde May 28th 2008 10:43AM
Hell, I'd just like to tray a raid once, before deciding if I care or not.
nexis007 May 28th 2008 10:47AM
I care about our raiding and where we are ... I couldn't care less about where others are. Sure, I know the names of some of the top guilds, but only because I have heard others talk about them. It's a game, the race is over, there are no firsts to be done, at this point I am simply interested in getting through what content we have left before WoLK comes out.
Duncan May 28th 2008 10:52AM
No.... and why? Because all 25 man progression means is 1. You have the TIME to do it. 2. You are willing to put up with the BS DRAMA that goes along with it. It has much less to do with game SKILL then the hardcore raider wants to admit. and more to do with the time commitment and orginization skills of your Guild leaders. its much easier to hide weak players in a 40 or 25 man then 5 man heroics or 10 man raids.
Dave May 28th 2008 10:58AM
I kinda pay attention to world firsts, but usually nothing beyond who and when. I'm more interested in my own progression, which is far, far behind.
I don't even care about the raiding itself or the loot so much as I care about the social aspect and just seeing the content. I pay $13/mo. for this game and I want to see everything I'm offered. I'm already upset that I didn't see the value of raiding before this past winter and therefor missed out on everything pre-BC and will likely miss out on BT, Hyjal and Sunwell (if not TK and SSC as well) 'cause my guild may just not get there before Wrath. (We currently have Kara and Gruul on farm, but are still gearing up for Mag and ZA.)
Wolftech May 28th 2008 11:03AM
10 man raids are the perfect size.. no one gets lost in the crowd of a 40 man or 25 man, and is more intense than a 5 man while still being fun. This game is about fun and never should feel like work. That is what you have with a 25 man or 40 man raid.
I think that all of the raids should be 10 man from now on. Of course, I would also beef up the world bosses and they should be like the Everquest raid bosses.
just my opinion.. of course, since I am a casual raider, that is my spin on it.
Falhawk May 28th 2008 11:05AM
Don't care about any other guilds other than my own. I didn't see the fuss when a big guild disbanded and had to chuckle that sites considered it "news"
who gives a crap
Boon May 28th 2008 11:09AM
Well, hopefully WOTLK puts the rewards back into raiding peeps hands.
Welfare epics are fine, as long as they aren't available right from the start. Say 12- 18 months after expansion release will be fine. And make them pink to set them apart from proper player achievements.
Lazaria May 28th 2008 11:08AM
I think hard 10 man progression is where its at. I am tired of carrying people i dont even know and dont care to know or fighting for loot that goes to an AFK pally at the end. 10 man is where the skill really shows .. they can tune it to a point where a team can benefit from being a tightly knit group. I am currently trying to get all my IRL friends together with some of my previous guild members etc to make a 10 man team fo WOTLK. people seem to forget this is a game we are here to play and enjoy .. in my guild you dont get yelled at if you wipe the group .. hell if you do it creatively everyone will laugh with you. this elitest attitude people seem to have just because they have some purple pixels in their bags really upsets my murlocs. therefore the answer is no i do not follow 25 man content there is no point when i think of a game where i can socialise with my friends as well as progress i dont think of 25 friends .. if you had a party at your home would you rather 25 people you barely know or 10 of your best friends. Think about it
Regards
Lazaria
Bynde May 28th 2008 11:10AM
I probably need to stop reading wowinsider. I'm getting depressed.
So, all the instances that came out with BC will have useless drops once Wrath comes out?
Iwanttobeasleep May 28th 2008 11:11AM
Wow, what a self-righteous ass.
I don't really care about world firsts, because I don't particularly like that it's now people who play the game professionally, but I can appreciate what a big deal it is and how talented they are. I like to follow server progression, though, because those are the guys you see in Shatt.
Drachon May 28th 2008 11:41AM
Nope - as much as it seems to be a focus of Blizzard and most websites, 25 man content isn't something I participate in (or really care to), so following it is really not particularly important to me. I enjoy small group dynamics - 5 and 10 man content, and probably always will.
Kitjer May 28th 2008 12:28PM
Professional guilds can enjoy that.
After raiding through Naxx and getting all gear available pre-TBC, these days, I could care less.
Grouping to be successful and have fun with 10 (and keeping a good group of related friends to support that) is enough work, and still requires 15-20 hrs a week. Jeezis. At least my job pays me. Instead, I pay Blizz? Ugh. :)