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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBreakfast Topic: Do you pay attention to 25-man progression?
by Daniel Whitcomb 
May 28th 2008 at 8:00AM
I was having a discussion with my brother yesterday, and he was telling me that he really doesn't pay attention much to the raid game anymore. Back in Everquest, he used to be a pretty hardcore raider, part of a giant guild that could field raids of 100 or more people, ready to track down and kill bosses the minute they spawned (since they were never instanced, you only got kill each boss around once per a week on each server). Because so many people were needed, and you might not even get to kill some bosses some weeks because other groups would beat you, you might go months without loot.
Because of this, he says, he doesn't really care any more about server firsts or world firsts. The 25 man raids don't really interest him, and he doesn't feel like 25-man raiders are worthy of respect. They get loot at a much faster rate than he ever did, and even if they don't get the drop they want, they still get badges. There's probably other people like him. There's also other people who may ignore 25-mans because it really doesn't affect them. They run their 5 mans, maybe an occasional Karazhan, and they really don't care what people do beyond that.
Me, I tend to like to follow the 25-man raid scene. I enjoy hearing about world firsts, and I keep abreast of what guilds are doing on my server, as well. Our server forums have a progression post that almost everyone knows about and is regularly updated so that we always know who's killing what, and I'm always eager to hear who's killed what in Sunwell Plateau right now.
Why this is I can't really pin down in one reason. Perhaps this is in part because I used to be a raider, and still like to know what's going on in that part of the game. Perhaps it's because the main 25-man raid group of my guild alliance is one of the top on our server, having a few server seconds and thirds. But whatever it is, following raiding exploits has always been part of playing MMORPGs for me. I like to know what my server is doing, and how they're doing compared to everyone else.
So here's my questions: Do you follow world raiding progression? Do you follow your server's raiding progression? If you do, Why do you think you're interested in them, especially if you aren't taking part in them or aren't even in the raiding game? If not, why not? Is it just not your thing, or do you honestly think it's not worthy of any note that people have downed a raid boss for the first time?
Filed under: Realm News, Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Breakfast Topics, Instances, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 4)
pb May 28th 2008 11:58AM
Nope - And I never will
EdgEy May 28th 2008 12:09PM
Negative tone in most of the comments here really surprises me to be honest. "I couldn't care less about content I don't play, I don't spend 4 nights glued to my computer a week" well, is there really a need to put down players because they enjoy the game more than you do?
Dan May 28th 2008 1:16PM
I think much of that negativity comes from experiences with the multitude of asshats and braggarts that seem to be attracted to hardcore raiding.
Oblivion May 28th 2008 12:19PM
I actually participate in raids and am an officer in my guild and I still don't follow my server's progression. Many people in my guild follow it. On our guild forums, people are always talking about our progression ranking and stuff like that and I honestly don't see the point at all. If we are the 1st guild or the 100th guild on our server in terms of progression, I don't understand how that affects me or why I should care. It doesn't make any sense. Following arena rankings and brackets makes sense because there is an actual ladder that yields ramifications. In the PvE world, it just doesn't interest me.
Tychon May 28th 2008 12:50PM
I think most of the people that say they don't care are full of it. Couple of reasons, Anyone that plays any sport or even interested in some sort of sport, knows who the goods teams are. who won the last championship, ect ect. I think the same applies to wow, you know who Nihilium is, you know who SK Gaming, you know who Death and Taxes was. You know Bloodlust battle group is the most competetive when it comes to pvp.
We know all this just because of our interest in the game, and we're curious what others are doing or who is the best at something. whether or not it matters in the grand scheme of things is besides the point, because at the end of the day you are going to play the game how you want it. If you read enough "wow news" to not be interested at all is just a lie.
JB May 28th 2008 1:13PM
^^ Wow - what a ridiculous, pompous, full of it statement. I don't see WoW as a sport. I see it has a game for FUN. I have never even heard of those guilds and don't belong to one either. I don't do raids so I don't follow it - why waste my precious time on something that means nothing to me? Quite frankly I don't care.
I do care about and it annoys me that there is content only available to raiders. My monthly fee should entitle me to all content as a solo player. Blizzard has the capability to code to scale according to one's capability. In this way ALL PVE content would be available to every-one....
jbodar May 28th 2008 10:36PM
@JB
That sounds ridiculous. I'm all for making content more accessible to casual players, but soloing instances of your level is retarded. Leaving aside how would they scale the gear, what would the point be? The second "M" in MMO is for Multiplayer, because there is only so much to do alone. The point is to work cooperatively to tackle harder encounters, not run around soloing Dragons and Ancient Demons.
If you want to tackle everything by yourself, I hear the Elder Scrolls series is pretty good.
Sydera May 28th 2008 12:58PM
I enjoy participating in 25-man raids, and I follow world and server progression. This is the aspect of the game I find most exciting and challenging. As an officer in a raiding guild, I can assure that from an organizational standpoint, the difficulty level of 25-man raiding is extremely high. It is much easier to coordinate 5 or 10 people, and managing the personalities of the people in my guild and my healing team is one of the most complex and rewarding facets of what I do. There are other great aspects of the game, and I respect people who pursue other avenues of progression, but this one is my pastime of choice.
Tychon May 28th 2008 1:40PM
JB said...
^^ Wow - what a ridiculous, pompous, full of it statement. I don't see WoW as a sport. I see it has a game for FUN.
Yup and most people consider sports a game of "FUN" just for fun, whether you are in the back yard throwing the ball around, or your kobe bryant hitting the last second 3 to win the game. they are both FUN! you don't have to be a pro to have fun in the game, which is exactly my point. If you don't know who those guilds are, you obviously don't read wow insider.
"I do care about and it annoys me that there is content only available to raiders. My monthly fee should entitle me to all content as a solo player. Blizzard has the capability to code to scale according to one's capability. In this way ALL PVE content would be available to every-one...."
Where have you been? it is available to everyone. there are no attunments. get 25 people together and go hit up rage. Heaven forbid that we don't have cheats to 1 shot everything. I think you need to go play on a private server where you can enjoy the game the way you want it, be handed T6, go solo illidan, go 1 shot KJ.
Druid dude May 28th 2008 1:00PM
Wow... the raider hate here is really disturbing. Its like WoW General Forums have found a new home at WoWInsider.com.
Some sounds like its coming from people who have had bad experience with guilds run by jackasses. Many RLs do yell at people etc, but there are also many raid guilds that are much more mature, and are very good guilds to be in. So they come here now instead of WoW General and spew their venom it seems.
I have been reading this site and participating here since shortly after it went up. I have watched it slide to what it is now. There are many troll bait threads now, and the WoW General refugees flock and respond in the only way they know how, having found familiar turf.
Thats it for me gang, I'm outta here. Its been a great run here, but I'm done. I wish the best to those that still show some class here, and more patience than I.
Out.
Druid Dude
aka Meugly, GM of Wraith, Icecrown
Willias May 28th 2008 1:00PM
I like reading about when a boss is first killed, but I don't really care about who did it in particular.
Skarlette May 28th 2008 1:38PM
For world-firsts and North American-firsts, I read the headlines here or on the official forums, think something along the lines of "Huh, good for them," and go about my business.
For server-firsts, I think "Huh, good for them," and make a mental note of which guild it was, partly so I can /inspect their members standing around in cities to see the nifty new gear.
It really doesn't interest me all that much, in other words. I care about what my guild is doing, or my friends' guilds, but as for the bleeding-edge, world-first kind of thing...meh. Whatever.
Willypiggy May 29th 2008 2:36AM
I like to keep track of world firsts and the progression of the guilds on my server (Only Alliance, don't care about horde :p) and ofc my own guild.. I occasionally take a glance at other guilds from other servers websites just to see how they are doing but that is about it.
Tenchan May 28th 2008 2:52PM
Couldn't care less. I RP. I care about RP things.
krat2 May 28th 2008 3:36PM
I must admit to being surprised at a lot of the responses here.
I do not care about world, U.S., or server firsts. The raid game holds no interest to me at all. The only reason I know that some European guild was the first to kill the last boss in Sunwell was that there was an article on this site with that in the title. Did I read the article? No. I never read Guildwatch, either, as it simply means nothing to me.
That said, I'd have guessed I was in the minority for WoW Insider readers.
My guess is that a large number of people who play the game never hit the forums or sites like this. They play a small scale game with friends and people they met online. To them, world firsts are irrelevant. For the people who come to sites like this, though, I'd have guessed there was a higher raiding population. Perhaps it is a bad assumption on my part, but I'd have been certain that raiders more readily follow server progression at the least, and world progression to a degree.
Maybe there are more people here like me, who hunger for news about the game, rather than columns like Guildwatch or articles about world firsts.
Anteia May 28th 2008 5:27PM
It seems like this should be more of a poll question too, just to make it more succint. Still, in even reading websites like this one, it's hard not to 'pay attention'. I know who did the world firsts simply because I browsed the articles.. I personally don't CARE at all. I'm here in WoW to have fun, not to commit to a second job. I do arena for the heck of it, have a relatively low rating, and I don't care. I'm still able to earn the season 3 pieces, even though they're blocking off the ratings at season 4. So that one I'll just be getting gloves from and probably quitting arena. Serious raid progression? I just brave enough to haul my FIRST character into a heroic despite having a 70 for over a year because people had scared me off from them so badly talking about how uber-geared you had to be. And that one, I only did because I wanted my epic flight mount. But now, I've realized I can handle them so I'm having a blast with that. A surprise invite to Kara let me get into the first ever 'current' raid I've been in. 25 mans? Way out of my league and something I won't see till I'm 80 and someone organizes a run that way. I do read the encounters for the fun of it, but world firsts? I can't really consider them important.
Kaldric May 28th 2008 11:56PM
I think of it this way. They started reading a thousand-page book 2 years ago. I started yesterday. I'm supposed to be impressed that they're done first? So what?
Basic competency in class + Ability to follow directions + Willingness to prioritize videogame above other activities = good raider
Again, so what?
npm May 29th 2008 11:05AM
No, I don't really follow it or care about it, except to see where my own guild stands on my server. Other than that, I scroll past anything on that particular topic.... I can't believe the blogs, like World of Raids, that continue to devote major space to it. Dull, boring, skippable.
Freehugz May 29th 2008 3:07AM
25 man? As in 15 people afk in the cave in AV?
Danath May 29th 2008 3:53AM
The only time I check progression is when someone does something interesting (like Vodka killing the Twin Eredar the other way around), otherwise nope, I usually immediatly close any window talking about world or server firsts.