Frost Mages and Frost Death Knights
by Mike Schramm 
May 29th 2008 at 6:30PM
Over on the forums, Scorp brings up a Death Knight concern that I haven't heard before: as we all have known since last BlizzCon, the Death Knight's three talent trees are "Blood," "Unholy," and "Frost," and the one that Scorp has a problem with is the last one. Should Blizzard change the "Frost" tree on the Death Knight class so people don't confuse it with Mages?If you're asking me: no. "Restoration," "Holy," and "Protection" are all reused in a few different talent trees, and for both of those, while the talents are different, the intent is the same. "Frost," for both Mages and Death Knights, will have the same aim as well, as far as we've been told so far -- both classes will aim for DPS in those trees, with extra consideration given to crowd control and slow debuffs. In fact, depending on exactly how the Death Knight's talents work, the "Frost" title might help newer players understand the tree a little better anyway, especially if they've played with a Frost Mage before.
Not that people don't have ideas -- "Ice" (yes, Ice, baby), "Chill" and "Really, really cold stuff" are all names being thrown around on the forums. But Blizzard will probably stick with "Frost" -- no reason to change it up, especially if the abilities line up with the Mage tree as much as we expect them to.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Talents, Death Knight, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Drae May 29th 2008 6:40PM
"both classes will aim for DPS in those trees"
Thats incorrect, A Death Knight's frost tree will aim at tanking and not dps.
Mike Schramm May 29th 2008 8:35PM
Yeah technically the Death Knight will be tanking by DPS, as opposed to Pallys and Warriors, who tank by damage mitigation.
kr3wman May 29th 2008 6:38PM
Frost for DKs is tanking.
I just owned this post.
Zakk May 29th 2008 6:59PM
Are you sure? I know that's what was generally accepted in earlier stages of the DK's development, but I thought they decided to switch around the purposes of some of the talent trees with that last bombardment of WotLK news.
Unagieater May 29th 2008 7:32PM
Lol, you're right. I was gonna say this too, but I read the post too late.
Calaana May 29th 2008 8:29PM
It is believed they build threat by dps. He's correct.
Ryan May 30th 2008 7:54AM
Mind referencing that claim? The frost presence is still the +armor% presence as far as I know, what makes you think it's not going to be the tanking tree as well?
Clasifyd May 30th 2008 8:05AM
Quoted from the WoW official DK site:
"Frost: Talents in this tree focus on tanking abilities. Frost Presence increases threat and lowers damage taken by a percentage."
While this is what is stated, having seen what they are offering as 'tanking talents' in the F&F alpha, I'm VERY skeptical on how a DK will tank. Yes, I understand that they generate threat through DPS. What I don't understand is how they can be considered a tank, much less the frost tree being considered the tanking tree, with one, count them, one physical damage mitigation talent. Even that talent is just an increase in armor, iirc. It's been said that a DK will not tank with a shield, but a 2-hand weapon. Needless to say, I'm worried about the standing of the DK's 'tank' status.
Ryan May 30th 2008 9:47AM
Well, the frost tree not being a 'good' tank tree is a different statement than saying that the frost tree is not 'the' tanking tree.
Gulbrandt May 30th 2008 12:56PM
Death Knights are more for tanking casters, as I understand it, rather than physical melee attackers. A shield will do little good against a caster anyway. :)
Tim May 29th 2008 6:47PM
A frost mages tree doesn't even aim at DPS. It is primarily focused on CC and survival, which is why it is overwhelmingly favored for PvP.
Snailking May 29th 2008 6:50PM
What always got me was that mages and shaman have both been described as 'master of the elements'. Surely shaman could have been more spiritual in nature (ancestral recall, spirit wolf, etc) and less fire/frost blah just like mages.
Castillo May 29th 2008 6:51PM
I'll say here what I said in that forum:
I'd change Frost to "Blight". Synonyms, yes - but Blight also connects more strongly with the death element of the class.
Blood
Unholy
Blight
Sounds better, to me.
Kaylek May 30th 2008 11:44AM
Blood
Blight
Too similar, and there's no good reason to change it to begin with. Protection for warriors and paladins is very different between the two classes (though they share the same core concept), while Restoration between druids and shaman is different in many ways while sharing a core concept. Frost for mages is about CC and survival, and so is Frost for the death knight, although the details of the trees will be very different.
Furthermore, spells that come out of the Frost tree will play into the Frost school of magic. This fits in so many ways with the game in its current establishment that there's no sensical reason to mix it up or overcomplicate it.
gt May 29th 2008 7:00PM
"Frost," for both Mages and Death Knights, will have the same aim as well, as far as we've been told so far -- both classes will aim for DPS in those trees..."
I think my brain just quietly screamed. Mike go roll a Mage and learn what the Frost Tree is for. (DK Frost is for TANKING.)
gt May 29th 2008 7:00PM
"Frost," for both Mages and Death Knights, will have the same aim as well, as far as we've been told so far -- both classes will aim for DPS in those trees..."
I think my brain just quietly screamed. Mike go roll a Mage and learn what the Frost Tree is for. (DK Frost is for TANKING.)
Josh May 29th 2008 7:03PM
frost is the tank aspect, but I thought that it was the dps tree
papyrus May 29th 2008 7:07PM
Hooray, yet another pointless, boring article.
Keep up the good work insider.
Woot for the NDA.
jbodar May 29th 2008 8:46PM
I wouldn't be that harsh, but this article does remind me of every time the local TV news interviews a "witness" and picks the slack-jawed bystander with the most extra chromosomes.
I understand that the point is to provoke discussion on a topic, but seriously?
papyrus May 29th 2008 9:06PM
I propose a new article, in which insider asks the readers weekly for ideas for a investigation, report, etc. on something they would like to be discussed. For example, 'The current state on gold farming', ie. a insight into the gold market.
It could make for some interesting reads and the readers would be happy and feel like they are contributing.