Ask a Lore Nerd: You're how old?
by Alex Ziebart 
Jun 1st 2008 at 2:00PM
We have no reason to delay, so let's get right into the meat of things!
Jere asks: I might be wrong on location, but why is there a member of the Argent Dawn stationed in Dun Morogh just southeast of IF?
Answer: Unfortunately, we have no idea. Father Gavin might just be an emissary or representative from the Argent Dawn to Dun Morogh, but he has no quests or dialogue attached to him. It's possible he'll be used for something in the future, but it seems unlikely. He simply exists. Nothing more.
Hideaki asks: Alright, I understand that a lot of the information from Warcraft I & II is subject to change when it comes to official lore, so here's my problem. The first mission of the Human campaign in Beyond the Dark Portal shows that New Stormwind has already been built by this point in time. I've yet to find any other source of information, however, that lists Stormwind as being rebuilt by a date more specific than "somewhere between Warcraft II and Warcraft III". Is it safe to just go by WCIIx's recount until the Beyond the Dark Portal novelization is released, then?
Answer: It's possible something more specific is mentioned in a quest somewhere, but I haven't seen anything. New Stormwind was built sometime after the beginning of WCII and before the beginning of WCIII. Since no concrete date was given, if you're asking for roleplay purposes, it's safe to make a reasonable guess. New Stormwind wasn't built in a day, but there's a definite point in which we see it firmly established.
To sum up: Yes, it is safe to do that until a novelization is released. Story elements from before Warcraft III generally aren't very solid until they're reinforced in another medium, but you need to get by with what information you have.
Jamal asks: I have a really curious question. In this picture, what are those islands next to Stranglethorn Vale, all the way to the western small islands? Also what is that twisting thing in the center? Will this be another expansion? Or part of Wrath?
Answer: Those islands are the Southern Islands. Places like Kezan, Tel Abim, Hiji, Plunder Isle, etc. They each have their own little story. For example, beneath Kezan is Undermine, the Goblin Capital City. Plunder Isle houses the headquarters of the Bloodsail Buccaneers. These may appear in Wrath of the Lich King since maps Blizzard has shown us included Stormwind's Harbor is being added onto the city, but it's more likely we'll see them in a Maelstrom expansion.
That's the twisting thing in the center, the Maelstrom. It was caused by the Sundering, the destruction of the Well of Eternity.
name! asks a few questions:
Q: What is the origin of Gnomes?
A: We don't know this for sure. A popular theory is that they're a branch of Earthen evolution, the Dwarves being another branch, but that's just a guess. There's no creation myth for the Gnomes, and I think it's in their nature to look forward rather than backward. The Gnomes themselves probably don't particularly care.
Q: Where is Sargeras originally from?
A: If you want an in-depth answer, Matthew Rossi wrote a Know Your Lore entry about Sargeras and his origins. To sum it up: He was one of the Titans, and it was his job to keep order in the universe. It ended up being too much for him, and he snapped.
Q: Why does Doom Lord Kazzak look like a huge Tauren?
A: Probably coincidence and not much more. He's a really big, powerful Doomguard. Doomguards come from the Ered'ruin race, according to NPC dialogue in the Exodar. They just look similar, but that doesn't mean they're the same. Orcs essentially look like green humans with hunched shoulders, but orcs are not the same as humans.
Bakuryu asks:
Q: What all forces, save for Scourge (Including Vrykul and Nerubians) are currently at Northrend, pre-WotLK?
A: Forces as in military forces, or forces as in beings/organizations of some power? Assuming the former, we know of at least the remnants of Arthas' Expedition, the remnants of Muradin Bronzebeard's expedition, potential remnants of the Scarlet Crusade's expedition to Northrend, and potential survivors of the Lich King's first sweep across Northrend, prior to his move into Lordaeron.
For the other races and/or forces at work in the frozen north, the Wowwiki page for Northrend and the official website are pretty good resources.
Q: What's up with Karazhan? Why does it have such magical influence?
A: While the building itself is built on a nexus of ley lines (think rivers of loose magic converging in one place), most of the power of Karazhan comes from Medivh himself. Medivh was the Last Guardian of Tirisfal. The Guardians are very, very powerful mages who are very nearly God-like. There can only be one of them at a time, sworn in and empowered by the Council of Tirisfal (a.k.a. the Tirisfalen).
The Guardians were strong. I mean crazy strong. Medivh's mother, Aegwynn (alongside some Dragons), went head to head with Sargeras and came out alright. Unfortunately for Aegwynn, Sargeras' soul hid within Aegwynn and later possessed her unborn child, Medivh.
So Karazhan is not only built upon a nexus of magical power, it also housed one of the most powerful mages Azeroth has ever known. That mage was also possessed by Sargeras, one of the evilest evils to have ever eviled. Karazhan itself has probably been irreperably warped by all of the power it has been exposed to in its time.
Q: Is Medivh truly dead? I've played War3 and was unsure. I'm assuming it was Medivh's spirit.
A: Medivh was dead, but Aegwynn ressurected him (minus the taint of Sargeras) using the last of her power as a Guardian. Medivh set Aegwynn up with a cozy retirement place, and set about trying to prepare the world for the coming of the Legion and the Scourge.
Aegwynn has since moved on from her place of retirement, and Medivh's location is unknown. He may have passed away naturally since the Third War, or he might still be out there somewhere. It would not surprise me if we ran into him again sometime.
Q: What about Sargeras? And while we're at it, Archimonde?
A: Sargeras is 'alive' in the sense that he still exists. As far as we know, however, he does not currently have a physical form or vessel. As we find out in the Sunwell Plateau, it seems Kil'jaeden is taking this opportunity to try and usurp Sargeras. He shouts the following in the Plateau:
"The expendible have perished... So be it! Now I shall succeed where Sargeras could not! I will bleed this wretched world and secure my place as the true master of the Burning Legion. The end has come! Let the unraveling of this world commence!"
As for Archimonde... yeah, he's dead. Blown to smithereens. This is fantasy and it is canon that demons are not necessarily destroyed when killed, but we can assume he's a goner for now.
Q: A quick summary about what happened to Ner'zhul would be lovely. Was his body and spirit ripped apart by Kil'jaeden? And, for that matter, who crafted the armor? Or the first Runeblade, as an aside?
A: Ner'zhul was an Orcish Shaman back on Draenor, who was tricked into doing some really bad things by Kil'jaeden. He was all about serving the Legion until he realized the Draenei that Kil'jaeden sent him to slaughter didn't seem as bad as they were made out to be. He went to his ancestors for answers to what was going on, and they said something along the lines of, "They're demons, you idiot."
Ner'zhul tried to save the Orcs, mostly failed, and decided to flee from Draenor while he still could. During his attempts to escape, Kil'jaeden snatched him up, tore his soul from his body, bound it to a suit of Legion-forged armor and a matching sword, and sealed him in a block of ice. Due to he trauma Ner'zhul went through during this experience, and the demonic taint that seeped into his soul, hate essentially devoured him. Ner'zhul was pissed, turned on the Legion, and now merged with Arthas Menethil to regain a physical, corporeal form.
David Bowers asks:
Q: Hey Alex! I gots me a question too: As we know, a number of the Warcraft races are extremely long-lived, notably the night elves and the draenei. The WoW pen and paper RPG book says that night elves mature at 300 years old, and some other sources seem to say that draenei also stay children for ages and ages. Is this true, and if so, WTF? How does that work exactly? They actually spend 10 years crawling about on all fours, another 10 or 20 learning to talk in complete sentences, and so on? How could a night elf or draenei adolescent still be a "child" if they're 150 to 200 years old?
A: I don't think we'll ever have a concrete answer for this unless it comes from Blizzard, but I imagine there are a few interpretations that could work fine from an RP standpoint, which I know is your area of expertise.
The first interpretation can be the literal one. Yes, Night Elves and Draenei take much much longer to mature into what we would consider 'adults.' That culture shock of, "you were a baby for HOW LONG?" would be exactly that to the races of Azeroth. Culture shock. If you live for 10,000 years, it might not be that weird that your children are children for a few hundred years. If Humans on Azeroth live for sixty to seventy years, and their children aren't 'adults' until about seventeen/eighteen, that's about one fourth of their lifetime as a child. If that translated directly to a Draenei or a Night Elf's timespan, one fourth of their life could be thousands of years. Being a child for 200-300 years in their society as a member of their race? That could be considered a short amount of time to them.
That would work the other way around too, I'm sure. Prophet Velen and Fandral Staghelm would probably be completely boggled knowing Varian Wrynn is likely in his fourties or somewhere around there.
The other interpretation is that it doesn't mean they're babies for 200 years. It means that they aren't 'of age' until then. For example, you can't be President of the United States until you're 35 years old. You also probably won't be taken seriously until you're quite a bit older than that. In a society that lives for many thousands of years, someone that is only 35 (or 50) years old would probably be snubbed for being far too young.
Could you imagine a 35 year old Night Elf trying to talk smack to a ten thousand year old druid in Moonglade? It would essentially be the same as a small child having a hissy fit to them. That 35 year old may be fully developed physically and mentally, but compared to those older members of society, they know almost nothing about the world and can't be considered an 'adult.'
That's about all the time we have this week, ladies and gents. If I didn't get to your question this week, never fear! Ask a Lore Nerd will be back next week Sunday, answering as many of your questions as possible. Remember, don't be afraid to ask us your questions, no matter how large or small. Post them in the Comments field below, and I'll get to them as soon as I can. Thanks for reading and I'll see you next week.
Ask a Lore Nerd is only on its third installment, but its sister column Know Your Lore has been going strong for some time already! If you want more in-depth answers to some of your questions, you may find them there. Of course, you can always check out the first installment, or snoop around the WoW Insider Directory.Filed under: Gnomes, Analysis / Opinion, Lore, Wrath of the Lich King, Ask a Lore Nerd
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Hideaki Jun 1st 2008 2:33PM
Just gotta say that your columns are always a pleasure to read. Keep up the great work!
Camaris Jun 1st 2008 2:37PM
Another Northrend-related question then.. about the Lich King. Does he/it have any special powers? I mean.. it's some sort of odd combination of human body + corrupted (?) orcish soul + demonic armor. I mean, I am sure he will have all sorts of shadow/frost related stuff going on as a boss fight, but lore-wise, did we see him do anything other than melee with Illidan?
I seem to remember at least some of the Lich King's power actually comes from Frostmourne itself. Didnt the sword 'tempt' Arthas to come to it?
Another question, concerning some of the non-playable Azerothian races. Especially the Kalimdor ones. As an Alliance player, I don't remember getting much lore concerning centaurs and quillboar. Is there a particular reason why both these are kill-on-sight? Especially the centaur look to be reasonably intelligent beings that aren't necessarily 'evil'. I understand they are historical enemies of the Tauren, but are there any redeeming qualities to these guys? The quillboar look to me like a slightly dimwitted, but very shamanistic/naturalistic society. They may be in territorial conflict with the new Horde, and some of them are under control of the Scourge, but it seems they do have a few things in common with the Tauren.. again.. is there anything good to say about the little pigmen?
Oh, and this just popped in my head... what's the deal with the gnome robot in Serpentshrine Cavern? Are we to assume there is an evil faction of gnomes in cahoots with Queen Azshara and/or Vashj?
Suzaku Jun 2nd 2008 9:45AM
Arthas presumably would be able to weild the combined powers of a shaman, warlock, paladin, and death knight. Maybe a few more powers thrown in. The old RPG Monster Guide gives a rundown of his abilities and fighting style, but it may not be something one should consider canon.
The centaur are essentially barbarian conqueror abominations, descended from the breeding of an Elemental Lord and a Demigod. They're reasonably intelligent, sentient, and all, but they're basically just filthy, savage, brutal warmongerers.
The quilboar are similar to kobolds and gnolls. Not particularliy intelligent who are fighting for their land. And yes, some have joined the Scourge and/or are working with the Grimtotem.
The Quillboar
Jason Toric Jun 1st 2008 2:38PM
So i usually like to discover as much as i can above the environments of Wow and the lore behind them but a few weeks ago when i was exploring a cleared Karazhan i ran into a locked door, Seargents Quarters or something like that. Whats the story behind that everyone ive asked to date has no clue.
Camaris Jun 1st 2008 2:46PM
The only clue is the friendly (and useless) "flavor" NPC called Bennett (The Sergeant at Arms):
http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=16426
There are a few more of these seemingly flavor or unfinished NPCs in Karazhan. They could be part of some future plans, but for the moment they are just furniture.
Atros Jun 1st 2008 2:37PM
Hmm... I've got a question. People talk of the Lich King like he's pure unadulterated evil. However, is he truly? Remember, he's a fusion of Ner'zhul and Arthas. While yes, both of these people have done horrible, rotten things, they were truly after noble ideals for their people.
Ner'zhul was decieved by Kil'jaeden into thinking that he was following his ancestor's wishes. When he has realized what it was that he had done, he tried to correct some of the what he's done, and ended up in in the suit of armor known as the Lich King, to be Kil'jaeden's puppet on Azeroth to to pave the way for the Burning Legion.
Arthas, while arrogant and headstrong, truly was out to try to do right by his people. The catch is his goal went from saving his people, to defeating the Scourge, only to get caught by Frostmourne, and avenged his people from the Dreadlord (can't remember his name right now) who was coordinating the scourge offensive, but then was caught in the web that Frostmourne had woven.
However, at this point, the lich king was starting to regain some of his independence, in the warnings that Kel'thuzad was giving to Arthas as he was returning as a Lich. Bit by bit, at this point, the Burning Legion's hold on the Scourge diminished, to where, with the defeat of Archimonde at Mount Hyjal, the Scourge became 'free' to do their plans, though with the same general goals that had been laid out for them by Kil'Jaeden, even if not under his control anymore.
Remember, Kil'Jaeden feared the Scourge, and the price Illidan had to pay for the power from the Skull of Guldan was to destroy the Lich King. He lost the battle with Arthas, and went to Outland to both brood over it, and to hide from Kil'Jaeden.
Now, with Kil'Jaeden defeated, what is preventing the noble, if somewhat misguided intentions of both Ner'Zhul and Arthas to come to the surface if given the proper incentive to do so. Who's to say that the final confrontation in WotLK isn't to kill to kill them, but rather to save them from demonic corruption?
Suzaku Jun 2nd 2008 9:45AM
All indications are that Ner'zhul's torture at the hands of Kil'Jaeden, and the deeds and corruption Arthas took part in, combined with their fusion, has created a being of ultimate evil. Blizzard seems to have little or no interest in playing out another Darth Vaderesque redemption story, and the RPG manuals hint that one of the Lich King's possible plans is to turn all living beings on Azeroth into undead, and rule the world as a God.
qoa Jun 1st 2008 2:42PM
Great blog.
Camaris Jun 1st 2008 2:42PM
Oh, and what about Harpies? Even Wowwiki has very little on them. Apparently some Kobold groups are allied with them, and some quillboar artwork shows Harpies, maybe indicating some relation there. But what are Harpies? Some corrupted/transformed elves, like Naga? Analogous to Naga/Neptulon, might there be a relation between Harpies and Al'Akir the Windlord?
Suzaku Jun 2nd 2008 9:45AM
The harpies believe that they are descended from a group of night elves who were cursed by Queen Azshara, long before the Sundering. Other rumors are that they may be the descendants of night elves and the demigod Aviana, in the same manner that the nymphs and dryads are the descendants of night elves and Cenarius.
Madmartiigan Jun 1st 2008 2:58PM
Great read. I have always been wondering about the islands next to Stranglethorn Vale.
Thank you
ramz Jun 1st 2008 3:07PM
father gavin(the dude in dun morogh) has a painting of a naked woman in his house, and hes holy.
BLASPHEMY
Ametrine Jun 1st 2008 4:00PM
He's a priest, not a eunuch. Give the guy a break, okay?
Sean Riley Jun 1st 2008 7:23PM
Given it also hangs in the Dun Morogh tavern, we can assume that:
1. This is actually a highly respected work of art, with many reproductions and the priest is simply a lover of fine art; or,
2. The dwarven owner of that tavern is a kinky bastard with a penchant for humans.
finalark Jun 1st 2008 3:31PM
I pride myself on knowing a lot about Warcraft lore, but there is one thing I never understood. At the end of Warcraft III the Orcs, Night Elves and Humans all joined forces to fight the legion. So why is it that the alliance and the horde are so against each other? You would think that after that war a human of Theramore could walk right into Orgrimmar, not only due to the bonds of war but because of the friendship that Jaina and Thrall share.
twh Jun 1st 2008 7:07PM
Easy;
Old Hatreds die hard.
Most of the Alliance, which didn't take part in the Hyjal war, still see the orcs as the savages that destroyed their homes, killed their kinsmen, and ravaged their women.
The orcs see humans as the people that held them in internment camps for nearly 20 years, something they'd rather not repeat. Though a special bit of blame is on them since they won't admit that they were wrong in trying to slaughter the Draenei or taking Kalimdor away from the Night Elves, because they high on some manifest destiny which they believe gives them the right to take which was never theirs.
Another part is politics.
When the Forsaken joined up with the Horde, it only made things worse, knowing that the Forsaken are not too far off from the Scourge that brought Lorderon to its knees. The only difference between a slave of the Lich King and a slave of Sylvannas is that one has not free will, while the other only believes they have free will. These people were once living members of the alliance, by the way.
The Blood Elves, being the traitorous little bints they are, blame the Alliance when they left in the first place. When Menethil was murdered, despite everything that Menethil and the leaders of the Alliance did for them.
The Draenei, refugees and not really wanting to become slaves to Sargeras, still dispise the Orcs for nearly bringing them to extinction, when the orcs were too stupid to know the difference between their ancestors and world destroying demons.
Wounds run deep and take time to heal.
J. A. S. Jun 1st 2008 8:03PM
The Alliance has a better reason to hate the Forsaken than just their looks. A human army, with help from Sylvannas, actually did manage to retake Lorderon... and then Sylvannas murdered them to the last man. Granted the general was a bit of a prick, but he was a decorated officer and Lorderon was the largest human city since WC2. That's not the kind of thing you're just going to let slide.
As for that truce it was between Thrall and Jaina, not the Horde and the Alliance. Theramore is pretty much its own little outpost removed from the Alliance. Most of the quests there don't even give Alliance reputation.
Wulf Jun 3rd 2008 3:16PM
Just wanted to clarify a point made by tbh: "The orcs see humans as the people that held them in internment camps for nearly 20 years, something they'd rather not repeat. Though a special bit of blame is on them since they won't admit that they were wrong in trying to slaughter the Draenei or taking Kalimdor away from the Night Elves, because they high on some manifest destiny which they believe gives them the right to take which was never theirs."
I dont believe this is an accurate representation of the Horde. Thrall makes a very clear distinction between his burgeoning empire and the Horde of old. He describes his new Horde as different from the brutal murderers of the past, and as such I believe he would view the slaughter of the Draenei as a contemptable act.
Similarly, I believe Thrall wasn't so much looking to take Night Elf territory, more like they were plunged into hostilities by forces beyond his control. Thrall didn't know that the Night Elves even existed when he ordered the Warsong clan to start chopping down trees building fortresses, and the whole thing was made even worse by Hellscream's second corruption and the following slaughter of Cenarius. Effectively the Orc-Night Elf feud occurred without Thrall being involved at all. I believe that if he could, he would be perfectly willing to find a way to coexist peacefully. After all, he made peace with the Tauren and native Ogres quite happily. He also happily made peace with the Night Elves and Jaina's forces of humans when called upon to do so. It was the subsequent actions of Daelin Proudmoore and other political events that led to the continuing hostilities.
So, whilst the Horde are not exactly wusses, and admittedly have been ratehr expansionist towards local Centaur and Quillboar, I dont think its accurate to lay this kind of blame at their feet.
lorelol Jun 2nd 2008 1:19AM
can we has more info bout the ethereals thingys & gnolls and kobols kthnxsbyelol
Camaris Jun 1st 2008 4:13PM
The Ethereals are some type of energy beings originally from a world called K'aresh. K'aresh has been overrun by the Void (voidwalkers and similar creatures, led by Dimensius the All-Devouring. These are classified demons, but are probably not subjugated entirely by the Burning Legion), and basically, the majority of Ethereals are on the run.
The nature of their being allows them to easily travel through the Twisting Nether. They have a thing for collecting and trading in magical artefacts, as well as rare materials such as gems and metals. They are also drawn to Twisting Nether 'hotspots', like Outlands and a small excursion into abandoned Karazhan.