The Art of War(craft): DotA-style Battleground in WotLK?
My brothers are addicts. Actually, make that my brothers, my best friend, my brother-in-law, and more than a handful of other friends. Although most of them have played World of Warcraft at some point or the other, circumstances ranging from subscription fees and schedules have prohibited them from playing the game regularly. Instead, they get their Warcraft fix by playing DotA. A lot. For those unfamiliar with the term, DotA means Defense of the Ancients, a highly popular Warcraft III scenario developed by various independent authors. In the scenario, players control a single unit, a Hero -- one of about ninety as of version 6.52c -- that they use to combat waves of NPCs and take down enemy Heroes. They play DotA for hours on end every day, and if the rumors are true, it just might happen that their addiction just might become mine, as well.
Through one of the most thorough tips WoW Insider's ever gotten, reader Kevin breaks down some speculation that the new Battleground in Wrath of the Lich King will be DotA-inspired. In the slew of interviews that Blizzard granted in early May about the next expansion, Tom Chilton and Jeffrey Kaplan confirmed that they would be introducing a new Battleground in WotLK which "(is) set up as sort of an attack-defend scenario; features siege vehicles, and (has) destructible building components." Those nebulous answers are wide open for interpretation, but if I allow my Battleground-hungry self to dream, all those features can translate into a World of Warcraft DotA map.
All the necessary elements
Thinking about it, a DotA-style map has all the requisite elements for a perfectly balanced Battleground. For PvP addicts such as myself, a new Battleground is something we players have been clamoring for for a long time. To be quite honest, I would have been happy in the interim with new maps using the same mechanics as Arathi Basin or Warsong Gulch. But Blizzard was never a company to do anything half-heartedly, so a new Battleground would have to be something fresh, exciting, and -- more importantly -- balanced.
It took Blizzard years to come anywhere near balancing the ambitious Alterac Valley, and even now the map is still plagued with geographical balance pitfalls. Despite the numerous fixes, the company has come to realize that all Battlegrounds should be symmetrical to remove map imbalance from the equation. The DotA map -- a square zone with three pathways leading to and from opposing bases -- certainly fits this bill. DotA Allstars allows for up to ten players facing off against each other in teams of five where the objective is to destroy a building, or an "Ancient", in the center of the starting bases. A supposedly leaked picture of the new Battleground has three paths, too, similar to the DotA map. If the pic is real, then that's no coincidence.
Here's the kicker: a DotA-style Battleground is primed for eSport play. We all know how enamored Blizzard is with Arenas and how they've been hard at work trying to balance everything for eSport viability, even setting up dedicated realms for an Arena tournament. Well, DotA Allstars has been part of the World Cyber Games Asia since 2006. It's also in the line-up of the Electronic Sports World Cup (ESWC) 2008, as well as recognized by several electronic sports leagues worldwide. An eSport-viable Battleground? I think I need to change my underpants now.
Similar to Arenas, DotA requires a lot of teamwork in order to win. The difference is that the game is won not necessarily (or merely) through combat -- though that's obviously part of the equation -- but achieving the map's objectives through strategy and teamwork. The map is the game, not just a scenario for a deathmatch. Despite some old protestations, I'm sure Battlegrounds fans everywhere are stoked at the possibilities. Is it even possible, though? Can a popular RTS map translate into an MMO Battleground? It certainly seems that way.
An easy jump to make
It's relatively easy for Blizzard to adapt what makes DotA Allstars work into a World of Warcraft Battleground. They've made symmetrical maps for Warsong Gulch and Eye of the Storm, so a new map that mimics DotA should be a simple thing. In fact, even the towers in DotA can be replicated through the new 'destructible buildings' feature that Blizzard plans to introduce in the new expansion. Our insightful tipster also pointed out that even the NPC armies that are so integral to DotA can be mimicked in World of Warcraft. Blizzard has gotten more and more creative with NPCs, creating armies that fight one another -- from the forces in Shadowmoon Valley, the heroes in Mount Hyjal, and even those poor murlocs who turn on their masters on the Isle of Quel'danas.
I don't want to get my hopes up -- I think it would be a truly awesome Battleground -- but all the tools are there to make it happen. If Blizzard does incorporate NPC armies, it has the potential to feel epic, and perhaps even succeed where Alterac Valley had failed. NPC armies will allow players to feel like heroes, and it will be rush-oriented. It will be the first Battleground driven by an NPC rush or assault. We've seen a similar mechanic at work in the fast-paced Caverns of Time instances, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to convert that to a PvP scenario.
A few hitches
Of course, it's not a completely faithful translation. In DotA, Heroes level up from Level 1 up to 25, and leveling faster than your opponents is part of the challenge. There are creeps all around the DotA Allstars map, and looting or earning Gold contributes to a player's strength in the game. In a Battleground, I'm not quite convinced that non-aligned mobs are a sensible thing. Remember Korrak the Bloodrager? I'm sure Blizzard could find a way to make it work if they needed to, though.
One of the coolest things in DotA which I think will be difficult to translate are the items that players purchase to give their Heroes an edge. An item called the Refresher Orb, for example, acts like Readiness or Cold Snap. Wouldn't you want to wield a weapon called Guinsoo's Scythe of Vyse? Even if you didn't, maybe you'd change your mind if you found out it turned opponents into Sheep. Getting these items is a bit like crafting those epic BoP Blacksmithing recipes, and part of the game's strategy is rushing up DotA's version of a tech tree and getting enough Gold to get specific items.
But haven't we already seen temporary items in the fight against Kael'thas? Blizzard can easily make items that despawn when you leave the Battleground. Even if the items weren't weapons, some cool Battleground-only consumables might spice things up. Blizzard has admitted that "gimmicks" don't work as well in balanced Arena matches. But in a Battleground with NPCs, towers, and hopefully siege weapons, it might not be a bad idea. Come to think of it, the siege vehicles that Blizzard teased us about could stand in place of those game-breaking items in DotA.

Battle ready
The more I think about it, the more excited I get. I've never been a huge fan of DotA, even when virtually all the LAN rooms in my country are filled with them -- more than Counter-Strike. I always preferred my RTS to have more micro-management and more units (Warcraft III), and I wanted more involvement in my Hero than just resetting it every game (World of Warcraft). But if the rumors are true and our tipster is on to something, I just might be able to get my friends and family back into WoW, subscription fees and hectic schedules be damned. Playing hours upon hours of a game that mixes all our favorite elements in a world setting we all love would be truly incredible.
Destructible buildings, siege tanks, assaulting armies, and Heroes -- that's you and me -- in the midst of it all. A DotA-style Battleground has the potential to be truly epic. How big will the Battleground be? 10 players? 15 as some reports have it? Or maybe even 25 or 40? If Blizzard manages to pull of the NPCs correctly, the game can be scaled up or down so smoothly it's not even funny. An assault-style Battleground with NPCs on the constant offensive can speed up gameplay the way the static armies in Alterac Valley slowed it down.
I was looking forward to Lake Wintergrasp, but this new Battleground looks more and more promising. There hasn't quite been any Alpha info about it yet, but considering that not all classes have been revamped, it's probable that there's little work done. But the groundwork is sure to be there. With Chilton and Kaplan teasing about an "attack and defend" scenario, we can only keep our fingers crossed!
Zach Yonzon writes the crazily irregular but full of PvP goodness column The Art of War(craft) in between feverish dreams of new Battlegrounds and mashing faces in with big hammers. He plans to make Lake Wintergrasp his new haunt and the new Battleground -- hopefully DotA-inspired -- his new grinding spot.
Interested in reading more about Zach's disordering of the senses or PvP rants? Check out The Art of War(craft), where he talks about choosing the right targets (hint: it's the squishy one) in PvP or how to prepare for the not-coming soon Arena Season 4.
Through one of the most thorough tips WoW Insider's ever gotten, reader Kevin breaks down some speculation that the new Battleground in Wrath of the Lich King will be DotA-inspired. In the slew of interviews that Blizzard granted in early May about the next expansion, Tom Chilton and Jeffrey Kaplan confirmed that they would be introducing a new Battleground in WotLK which "(is) set up as sort of an attack-defend scenario; features siege vehicles, and (has) destructible building components." Those nebulous answers are wide open for interpretation, but if I allow my Battleground-hungry self to dream, all those features can translate into a World of Warcraft DotA map.
All the necessary elementsThinking about it, a DotA-style map has all the requisite elements for a perfectly balanced Battleground. For PvP addicts such as myself, a new Battleground is something we players have been clamoring for for a long time. To be quite honest, I would have been happy in the interim with new maps using the same mechanics as Arathi Basin or Warsong Gulch. But Blizzard was never a company to do anything half-heartedly, so a new Battleground would have to be something fresh, exciting, and -- more importantly -- balanced.
It took Blizzard years to come anywhere near balancing the ambitious Alterac Valley, and even now the map is still plagued with geographical balance pitfalls. Despite the numerous fixes, the company has come to realize that all Battlegrounds should be symmetrical to remove map imbalance from the equation. The DotA map -- a square zone with three pathways leading to and from opposing bases -- certainly fits this bill. DotA Allstars allows for up to ten players facing off against each other in teams of five where the objective is to destroy a building, or an "Ancient", in the center of the starting bases. A supposedly leaked picture of the new Battleground has three paths, too, similar to the DotA map. If the pic is real, then that's no coincidence.
Here's the kicker: a DotA-style Battleground is primed for eSport play. We all know how enamored Blizzard is with Arenas and how they've been hard at work trying to balance everything for eSport viability, even setting up dedicated realms for an Arena tournament. Well, DotA Allstars has been part of the World Cyber Games Asia since 2006. It's also in the line-up of the Electronic Sports World Cup (ESWC) 2008, as well as recognized by several electronic sports leagues worldwide. An eSport-viable Battleground? I think I need to change my underpants now.
Similar to Arenas, DotA requires a lot of teamwork in order to win. The difference is that the game is won not necessarily (or merely) through combat -- though that's obviously part of the equation -- but achieving the map's objectives through strategy and teamwork. The map is the game, not just a scenario for a deathmatch. Despite some old protestations, I'm sure Battlegrounds fans everywhere are stoked at the possibilities. Is it even possible, though? Can a popular RTS map translate into an MMO Battleground? It certainly seems that way.
An easy jump to make
It's relatively easy for Blizzard to adapt what makes DotA Allstars work into a World of Warcraft Battleground. They've made symmetrical maps for Warsong Gulch and Eye of the Storm, so a new map that mimics DotA should be a simple thing. In fact, even the towers in DotA can be replicated through the new 'destructible buildings' feature that Blizzard plans to introduce in the new expansion. Our insightful tipster also pointed out that even the NPC armies that are so integral to DotA can be mimicked in World of Warcraft. Blizzard has gotten more and more creative with NPCs, creating armies that fight one another -- from the forces in Shadowmoon Valley, the heroes in Mount Hyjal, and even those poor murlocs who turn on their masters on the Isle of Quel'danas.
I don't want to get my hopes up -- I think it would be a truly awesome Battleground -- but all the tools are there to make it happen. If Blizzard does incorporate NPC armies, it has the potential to feel epic, and perhaps even succeed where Alterac Valley had failed. NPC armies will allow players to feel like heroes, and it will be rush-oriented. It will be the first Battleground driven by an NPC rush or assault. We've seen a similar mechanic at work in the fast-paced Caverns of Time instances, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to convert that to a PvP scenario.
A few hitches
Of course, it's not a completely faithful translation. In DotA, Heroes level up from Level 1 up to 25, and leveling faster than your opponents is part of the challenge. There are creeps all around the DotA Allstars map, and looting or earning Gold contributes to a player's strength in the game. In a Battleground, I'm not quite convinced that non-aligned mobs are a sensible thing. Remember Korrak the Bloodrager? I'm sure Blizzard could find a way to make it work if they needed to, though.
One of the coolest things in DotA which I think will be difficult to translate are the items that players purchase to give their Heroes an edge. An item called the Refresher Orb, for example, acts like Readiness or Cold Snap. Wouldn't you want to wield a weapon called Guinsoo's Scythe of Vyse? Even if you didn't, maybe you'd change your mind if you found out it turned opponents into Sheep. Getting these items is a bit like crafting those epic BoP Blacksmithing recipes, and part of the game's strategy is rushing up DotA's version of a tech tree and getting enough Gold to get specific items.
But haven't we already seen temporary items in the fight against Kael'thas? Blizzard can easily make items that despawn when you leave the Battleground. Even if the items weren't weapons, some cool Battleground-only consumables might spice things up. Blizzard has admitted that "gimmicks" don't work as well in balanced Arena matches. But in a Battleground with NPCs, towers, and hopefully siege weapons, it might not be a bad idea. Come to think of it, the siege vehicles that Blizzard teased us about could stand in place of those game-breaking items in DotA.

The more I think about it, the more excited I get. I've never been a huge fan of DotA, even when virtually all the LAN rooms in my country are filled with them -- more than Counter-Strike. I always preferred my RTS to have more micro-management and more units (Warcraft III), and I wanted more involvement in my Hero than just resetting it every game (World of Warcraft). But if the rumors are true and our tipster is on to something, I just might be able to get my friends and family back into WoW, subscription fees and hectic schedules be damned. Playing hours upon hours of a game that mixes all our favorite elements in a world setting we all love would be truly incredible.
Destructible buildings, siege tanks, assaulting armies, and Heroes -- that's you and me -- in the midst of it all. A DotA-style Battleground has the potential to be truly epic. How big will the Battleground be? 10 players? 15 as some reports have it? Or maybe even 25 or 40? If Blizzard manages to pull of the NPCs correctly, the game can be scaled up or down so smoothly it's not even funny. An assault-style Battleground with NPCs on the constant offensive can speed up gameplay the way the static armies in Alterac Valley slowed it down.
I was looking forward to Lake Wintergrasp, but this new Battleground looks more and more promising. There hasn't quite been any Alpha info about it yet, but considering that not all classes have been revamped, it's probable that there's little work done. But the groundwork is sure to be there. With Chilton and Kaplan teasing about an "attack and defend" scenario, we can only keep our fingers crossed!
Zach Yonzon writes the crazily irregular but full of PvP goodness column The Art of War(craft) in between feverish dreams of new Battlegrounds and mashing faces in with big hammers. He plans to make Lake Wintergrasp his new haunt and the new Battleground -- hopefully DotA-inspired -- his new grinding spot.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Expansions, Wrath of the Lich King, Battlegrounds, Rumors, The Art of War(craft) (PvP)







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Morian Jun 4th 2008 3:06PM
Z0h M4w G4wdz!!! That'd be awesome :D
Heii Jun 4th 2008 3:19PM
Hurrah.... no, not really. DotA's an alright map and all, but the playerbase just sucked. A good chunk of them are nothing more then elitist pricks who are too self-centered to help out newer players. I mean, if you act like a jerk to newbie's (not n00bs), then that just repel's them away from the game, keeping the playerbase static.
Anyways, on topic; I wish they don't put this map in, cause then we'll have all the lolDotA idiots come in and generally make the community more worse then it already is.
Also, keep the e-sport out of my game, kthx.
Ryan Jun 4th 2008 3:44PM
What, as opposed to the reasoned, mature community that is the current WoW playerbase? And what does a new battleground map have to do with esports? Arena is the esports venue, battlegrounds is casual pvp.
makishima Jun 4th 2008 3:45PM
"more worse ..."
Tell you what. I'll make you a deal. I'll get Blizzard to keep their "e-sport" out of "your" game if you promise me an invitation to your high school graduation when you get there.
Pifoah Jun 4th 2008 3:47PM
Agreed, DotA players are extreme jerks. They're famous for it. Calling people Noob constantly, pointing out failures, and in-fighting is a part of the culture.
darian Jun 4th 2008 4:06PM
One word.
Athene.
Pzychotix Jun 4th 2008 7:07PM
Yes, people in Dota are extreme jerks, and we will call out your every mistake. Do you know why? We're in it together for an entire hour, and our chances at winning or losing depends on whether or not you're going to feed 10 times and then leave. If you're not going to take it seriously, you've just wasted everybody's time. Where did the desire to WIN go? Get the hell out of my game if you're not playing to win.
Damon Jun 5th 2008 2:49AM
That's the thing, though, i AM playing to win. I want to win this game. I want to have fun with this game. I want to play this game.
Unfortunately, i'm not particularly good at this game. I'm new. I've played against a few AI opponents to get the feel of it, but once i went online i basically got a bunch of people telling me i sucked and should logoff because they're better without me. And compared to what i've heard about the community they where actually pretty polite about it.
I can get better at DotA. If i play with people willing to deal with my inexperience and willing to offer constructive critisicm rather than flipping out at every possible mistake, i'll improve my game.
Snowball's chance in hell, it seems. I suppose if WoW gets DotA'd up it'll be the answer to my little problem.
Takis Jun 10th 2008 9:44AM
Elitists etc?? so what?? Sounds that you had been a real noob while playing Dota, to such extend that you suggest that blizz shouldn't put such a bg in wow so that good players cannot distinguish from noobs.... Are you seeing nightmares of being pwned again?
Keep the e-sport out of your game? Omg! first its not "your" game little prince, and secondly wow is a noob game already full of ppl that think that they have the right to one-shoot everybody cause they drop out of school to play wow all day. Any addition (eg. Arenas) that needs to make ppl think play good and its not only time spend based finds me more than positive
Lanth Jun 4th 2008 3:20PM
Hell, they could even bring in the real Heroes from DotA by making them a controllable minion (like mind-controlled mobs). Each DotA Hero has 4 abilities, wouldn't be too hard to make them upgradable on-the-fly.
Chuddy Jun 4th 2008 3:25PM
There was a job posting under that "top secret" project that asked for: "We would also like for this candidate to have excellent analytical understanding of competitive online play with various Blizzard Entertainment games and mods (real-time strategy, World of Warcraft, Defense of the Ancients, etc.)." It's from the designer senior 3d level job. Maybe? We can dream?
Pifoah Jun 4th 2008 3:41PM
I would LOVE to see a DotA style BG in WoW.
But I just don't see how it can work. There are a few things that just won't make it feel like DotA at all and you briefly mentioned them.
DotA players start at level 1 and go to 25 and gold and exp is earned and denied through "last hitting and denying." In effect, the game itself goes through a early, mid, and late game experience all within itself.
This means that gaining level and gold is essential to the game. Since WoW players can't usually level through BG's (in any reasonable amount of time), Blizz would have to implement an entirely different system of gaining power or stats through the BG and would have to scale it to how the player was doing in the BG. If all players gained power at the same rate, it's not DotA. Strategies revolve around early, mid or late game dominance: getting early kills to halt the enemy from getting gold or exp, or bunkering up to create one unstoppable late game force. It's not DotA if you don't get the progression from early to late.
Last Hitting and denying is a HUGE part of the game. It is what separates the good from the inexperienced. In DotA you don't get the gold for the kill unless you get the killing blow on the NPC (or in DotA they call them creeps). This also includes getting the killing blow on the hero or enemy player as well. In WoW you merely have to tag a mob or a player to get credit. So it takes that element of skill out of it.
You also mentioned that the map IS the game. To elaborate, there are two specific items that are used widely in ALL high level games. Wards and Town Portals. Wards are placed throughout the map for reconnaissance and is essential to having good teamwork and preparing for skirmishes. Town Portals give mobility to the player to "TP" to any building that your faction defends. The tp can certainly be implemented but wards seem too far fetched given the mechanics of WoW and some players already have similar abilities like the hunter's Eagle eye and the warlock eye thingie.
So unless blizz can address progressing through the BG to implement an early to late game feel and mobility and recon on the map, it will never be dota, shouldn't be related to dota, and shouldn't be thought of as DotA for WoW.
makishima Jun 4th 2008 3:51PM
I have to agree while I did love a good game of DotA with my friends (not the general community of asshats that played it) I don't think its properly suited for a BG. If people wanted to kill waves of trash they would go to Hyjal.
gundamxzero Jun 4th 2008 4:06PM
Sure those are the strategies of the game, but Dota is in itself merely attack and defend. Pick your path, kill your enemy and destroy the town on the other side, thats dota. Strategies is only what makes you a good dota player.
They could easily do it with wow, destructible towers players are the heroes and just design the map a certain way and bam its almost the same thing(obviously wow will never be dota) but it would be close and it would be something new to BG's. AV is kinda like dota except you only have 1 path and a huge amount of players to travel on that one path, split that by 3 paths and put in mandatory objectives(IE guard towers) and you have it.
Pifoah Jun 4th 2008 5:15PM
Sure, DotA can be just attack and defend, but I can assure you that there are reasons that game balance, map balance, and item balance is an issue in DotA, WoW and other level based pvp games. It's that good players will find strategies to exploit the system to give them an edge. So simply saying that it's easy to create a DotA style map and not put thought into the above mentioned will most certainly yield a bad gaming experience.
In any good game, you have to address the possible strategies that players will come up with, or the game will just fail.
btw, dota is not just picking a path and going with it, the fact is people move around the lanes a lot and that is what keeps you on your toes. It's only in the early game where you see people staying in one lane. The fact that it is a team game also negates the statement that it is just attack and defend. It can be thought of that way if it were a single player game, but it's not. There's three lanes and five players. I mean, if you're not in a solo lane, you're in a double lane trying to manage exp and gold distribution and trying to find opportunity to kill the opposing person in your lane (or even killing someone in another lane for that matter). Considering all the variables of teamwork, it's about timing, sound strategy, and adjustment.
And anyway, I'm not opposed to having a new BG, or creating something different. I'm just saying that trying to mimic DotA with the WoW mechanics is going to be much more difficult than people think it is, and instead of trying to recreate DotA I would suggest trying to create something different altogether.
There's a reason DotA is so popular and fun. It's unique, it's deep in terms of strategy and skill level, it requires communication and teamwork, and it's highly competitive. Since everyone starts at level 1 at the beginning of every game, DotA players don't strive to progress in items and levels, they strive to gain in ability and skill. WoW BG's should focus on those characteristics rather than recreating the actual mechanics of an entirely different game.
Sorry I'm so verbose, but that's how I roll. :)
gundamxzero Jun 4th 2008 5:40PM
Oh trust me I have spent countless hours playing dota and totally agree. I dont just mean it is a matter of sticking to a lane. But strip out the items abilities and levels and all the sudden it really doesnt seem so complicated to translate it.
Naix Jun 4th 2008 3:47PM
Naix ftw.
makishima Jun 4th 2008 3:49PM
Lies
Puhase Jun 4th 2008 3:54PM
I think you could replace the concept of gold and such with tokens like those used in the AV scenario. Turn in certain tokens to upgrade units, give yourself buffs, access to bigger vehicles, new spawn units, etc. I mean, if you look at it, AV is already extremely similar to DOTA without the competing armies going at each other to kill the final boss hiding in a well fortified town. The only problems were:
*No one wanted to defend the towers and the towers were not powerful enough to stop people from bypassing them
*The fortifications of the final bases were a joke, the only thing that mattered were the flags
*All the gimmick based stuff rarely turned the tide of battle(Airial bombers) or took far too long (wolf/ram rider+Mega summoned boss)
*The upgrades to your troops were limited to turning in armor scraps for level upgrades and it took them from 1 shot to 3 shot
I really disliked when they took the guards away from Elite status. Yea, it made the games faster, but if thats what they wanted they should drop resources in Arathi Basin to 1000. Its bullshit that the average AV (the "epic" battleground) takes 15 minutes and the average AB (pug vs pug) takes 45 minutes. The old AV just always had the problem of having it be easier to defend than attack. 7 people easily held off 15. Attacking NPC's change this dynamic as DOTA players know.
When they made changes to AV to speed it up, it completely took away the large army battle feel they were trying to bring. Not that I pine for the 6 hour games of old. Its just stupid that they designed that whole place and the only thing strategically relevant is the GY flag in each base and taking half the towers with a scattering of stragglers. I really hope that if they make this battleground, they make it so the huge amount of honor comes at the end so they can make it take a long time to win and yet its still the same honor/minute as the others.
Kurgann Jun 5th 2008 3:23AM
Excellent ideas! I like the idea of steadily increasing buffs that one could use for "leveling"...easy way to increase power per battleground, but it gets reset at the beginning of every new battleground.
I also like the idea of appropriate honor/minute. Even if it ends up being a two-hour battleground or whatever--as much fun as it could be--being appropriately rewarded for your time and especially efforts is a great idea.
I'd love love love a battleground where people actually go because it's fun and genuinely challenging. It would be cool if people really want to go time and again even if they don't want or need any new gear.