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6-04-2008 @ 3:41PM
I would LOVE to see a DotA style BG in WoW. But I just don't see how it can work. There are a few things that just won't make it feel like DotA at all and you briefly mentioned them. DotA players start at level 1 and go to 25 and gold and exp is earned and denied through "last hitting and denying." In effect, the game itself goes through a early, mid, and late game experience all within itself. This means that gaining level and gold is essential to the game. Since WoW players can't usually level through BG's (in any reasonable amount of time), Blizz would have to implement an entirely different system of gaining power or stats through the BG and would have to scale it to how the player was doing in the BG. If all players gained power at the same rate, it's not DotA. Strategies revolve around early, mid or late game dominance: getting early kills to halt the enemy from getting gold or exp, or bunkering up to create one unstoppable late game force. It's not DotA if you don't get the progression from early to late.Last Hitting and denying is a HUGE part of the game. It is what separates the good from the inexperienced. In DotA you don't get the gold for the kill unless you get the killing blow on the NPC (or in DotA they call them creeps). This also includes getting the killing blow on the hero or enemy player as well. In WoW you merely have to tag a mob or a player to get credit. So it takes that element of skill out of it.You also mentioned that the map IS the game. To elaborate, there are two specific items that are used widely in ALL high level games. Wards and Town Portals. Wards are placed throughout the map for reconnaissance and is essential to having good teamwork and preparing for skirmishes. Town Portals give mobility to the player to "TP" to any building that your faction defends. The tp can certainly be implemented but wards seem too far fetched given the mechanics of WoW and some players already have similar abilities like the hunter's Eagle eye and the warlock eye thingie. So unless blizz can address progressing through the BG to implement an early to late game feel and mobility and recon on the map, it will never be dota, shouldn't be related to dota, and shouldn't be thought of as DotA for WoW.
6-04-2008 @ 3:51PM
I have to agree while I did love a good game of DotA with my friends (not the general community of asshats that played it) I don't think its properly suited for a BG. If people wanted to kill waves of trash they would go to Hyjal.
6-04-2008 @ 4:06PM
Sure those are the strategies of the game, but Dota is in itself merely attack and defend. Pick your path, kill your enemy and destroy the town on the other side, thats dota. Strategies is only what makes you a good dota player.They could easily do it with wow, destructible towers players are the heroes and just design the map a certain way and bam its almost the same thing(obviously wow will never be dota) but it would be close and it would be something new to BG's. AV is kinda like dota except you only have 1 path and a huge amount of players to travel on that one path, split that by 3 paths and put in mandatory objectives(IE guard towers) and you have it.
6-04-2008 @ 5:15PM
Sure, DotA can be just attack and defend, but I can assure you that there are reasons that game balance, map balance, and item balance is an issue in DotA, WoW and other level based pvp games. It's that good players will find strategies to exploit the system to give them an edge. So simply saying that it's easy to create a DotA style map and not put thought into the above mentioned will most certainly yield a bad gaming experience.In any good game, you have to address the possible strategies that players will come up with, or the game will just fail.btw, dota is not just picking a path and going with it, the fact is people move around the lanes a lot and that is what keeps you on your toes. It's only in the early game where you see people staying in one lane. The fact that it is a team game also negates the statement that it is just attack and defend. It can be thought of that way if it were a single player game, but it's not. There's three lanes and five players. I mean, if you're not in a solo lane, you're in a double lane trying to manage exp and gold distribution and trying to find opportunity to kill the opposing person in your lane (or even killing someone in another lane for that matter). Considering all the variables of teamwork, it's about timing, sound strategy, and adjustment. And anyway, I'm not opposed to having a new BG, or creating something different. I'm just saying that trying to mimic DotA with the WoW mechanics is going to be much more difficult than people think it is, and instead of trying to recreate DotA I would suggest trying to create something different altogether. There's a reason DotA is so popular and fun. It's unique, it's deep in terms of strategy and skill level, it requires communication and teamwork, and it's highly competitive. Since everyone starts at level 1 at the beginning of every game, DotA players don't strive to progress in items and levels, they strive to gain in ability and skill. WoW BG's should focus on those characteristics rather than recreating the actual mechanics of an entirely different game. Sorry I'm so verbose, but that's how I roll. :)
6-04-2008 @ 5:40PM
Oh trust me I have spent countless hours playing dota and totally agree. I dont just mean it is a matter of sticking to a lane. But strip out the items abilities and levels and all the sudden it really doesnt seem so complicated to translate it.
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