Blizzcast episode 3: Dungeons and raids edition

- The original WoW raids were too hardcore early on; in BC they eased up on that and they hope to continue this in Wrath.
- Lessons learned in BC:
- Heroic loot needs to be definitely better than normal-mode loot
- Introductory raids need to be more friendly – he says "I don't want to say to casual players, but a little bit more accessible to people in general." Cites Maulgar and Mags as examples of less-than-friendly intro raids.
- How to itemize raid content vs. other content
- Heroic loot needs to be definitely better than normal-mode loot
- He reiterates that 10-man/25-man is not easy-mode/hard-mode; it's a separate line of progression.
- Differences in appearance between sets from 10- and 25-mans might be along the lines of recolors or more particle effects
- PvP armor will be entirely different from PvE armor "in looks and colors." This is a big departure from BC, where the Arena sets were purposely matched to the PvE tier sets. I approve.
- The 25-mans will be "a full tier in item progression" above the 10-mans.
- They really like legendaries, and are considering bringing Atiesh back "at some point in time." I would like this, if only because it would give me a (remote) chance at it. It is, after all, the only caster legendary they've ever made.
- Naxx bosses that will have to change significantly from the 40-man version to the 10- and 25-man versions include the Four Horsemen, Gothik, Kel'Thuzad, and Gluth. But they do want to keep the same spirit of the fights. I for one am excited to see some content I haven't got a glimpse at before, and I know I'm not alone in this.
- They're thinking around a dozen dungeons to be available, each with normal and heroic
- They want to find some way to expand on the Badge of Justice system to have stratified token loot, with different tiers, and also to have the vendors for it spread out throughout the world. They do think it's a big success, and are definitely planning on have a similar system in Wrath.
- Dungeon dailies will be available from the start of Wrath, and in general they want to explore dailies more and find ways (like randomization) to help keep them from getting repetitive.
- The Culling of Stratholme (new Caverns of Time instance) is not going to play out exactly like the Warcraft III mission, simply because what's good for an RTS is not necessarily good for an MMO.
- They want to continue to do timed events, but not to take away from the fun of the dungeon.
The next segment of the Blizzcast is US CM Nethaera talking with Joeyray Hall, Blizz's manager of video production (trailers and so forth). Not directly relevant to us, but like the SC2 stuff, worth checking out if you're a Blizzard fan.
Then they go into Q&A. I love Q&A.
- Kaplan is confident that this time around they have a "strong grasp" on how to balance itemization between dungeons, heroics, 10-mans, 25-mans, Arena, and Honor. A lot of those sources of gear were new to BC, and maybe weren't the best balanced, but now they've got it under control. We hope.
- He's excited about the revamped Mid-Summer Fire Festival, coming up before Wrath, in terms of it providing cool toys for role-players. In particular, a brazier is mentioned that summons a dancing figure "all on fire," and if you dance with her you catch on fire too. "Fun toys" like this are planned for Wrath as well.
- They're not quite decided on how Heroics will be unlocked in Wrath – whether it will be reputation-based like most of the BC heroics, or quest-based like Magister's Terrace, or some other option. One idea they had would be a quest that requires you to go through all the level 80 dungeons, which would then unlock all the heroics. They want there to be some unlocking method, but at the same time for it not to be too hard.
Well, that's it for episode three. Some real interesting stuff in there, and there is also some lore and flavor type content that I didn't talk about here (not to mention the SC2 stuff), so I encourage you to go to the official site and read the transcript and/or listen to the podcast when you get the time. Interestingly, there was no talk at all about Death Knights or other classes, but I suppose that's more Kalgan's area of expertise.
Update: things I missed the first time around (thanks, Eternalpayn)
- They want most raids to be on a 7-day timer, and the timers for the 10- and 25-man versions will always match.
- Patchwerk is still going to be "really mean" and "a check," especially given that Naxx is non-linear so guilds can choose to take on some other bosses first.
- Ulduar will be the second tier of raiding in Wrath (with Naxxramas of course being the first).
Filed under: Podcasting, News items, Interviews, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
makishima Jun 5th 2008 3:37PM
I totally support the following
"PvP armor will be entirely different from PvE armor 'in looks and colors.' "
Paymetohealu Jun 5th 2008 3:42PM
Wow.
So they are learning!
*gets hopes up"
Good read, nice information.
Camaris Jun 5th 2008 3:49PM
"The original WoW raids were too hardcore early on; in BC they eased up on that"
Well.. not really. I mean.. the first BC raid was hidden behind an attunement quest, and apart from the insanely annoying trash packs, Molten Core started out with quite a basic fight. But I guess they factor in Karazhan and the organizational issues of 10/25 vs 40-man.
Keysdawg Jun 5th 2008 4:08PM
I hardly found the attunement quest to be "hardcore". It was a easy enough questline and required basic levels of competence to complete. Not to mention that Molten Core was also "hidden" behind a attument quest. Neither of which were hardcore in the slightest.
Khanmora Jun 5th 2008 4:27PM
The 40 person dungeons were an organizational nightmare compared to 10 and Kara was eminently accessible and was a good way to prepare for later encounters (other than the stumble from 10-25 which they are looking to fix in Wrath by creating the two different progression paths).
George Jun 5th 2008 8:07PM
Anybody that whines about the Kara attunement is a moron. It was trivial at best.
dan Jun 5th 2008 3:54PM
"Differences between sets from 10- and 25-mans might be along the lines of recolors or more particle effects" is != to this "The 25-mans will be "a full tier in item progression" above the 10-mans" but that is more in line with "He reiterates that 10-man/25-man is not easy-mode/hard-mode; it's a separate line of progression."
so which is it?
Brimoonfang Jun 5th 2008 3:57PM
Agreed, Dan.
Blizzard needs to make up their collective minds on this one.
Are large guilds with 25+ raiders "superior" to smaller, less hardcore guilds with 10+ raiders, or not?
I know my guild has no trouble running two separate Karazhan groups per week, but it took us literally hours to put together a 25-man group for our first Gruul's attempt.
David Sirlin has some strong opinions on this point, which I happen to agree with. Larger groups can have different loot,
but it should not be "better" loot.
Eliah Hecht Jun 5th 2008 4:01PM
By that first sentence you quoted, dan, I meant differences in apperance; will edit for clarity.
As far as different vs. better, it seems that Blizzard clearly intends the 25-man loot to be better by the "full tier" comment. What I interpret from that is that the 10-man loot from whatever the second raid in Wrath is will be of comparable quality to the 25-man loot from the first raid (Naxx), etc.
As long as it enables me to see more of the raiding game than I can in BC, I'm pleased. I don't mind if the people doing the 25-mans parallel to me have better gear, as long as my gear lets me get to the next 10-man, and then later the one after that. It's about content, not epics.
niko Jun 5th 2008 4:02PM
why shouldn't it be better loot? You said it yourself, it's harder to coordinate a group that large! It should be a nice reward for being a part of such a group, otherwise, why run a 25-man? Just run your 10-man raids and be done with it!
makishima Jun 5th 2008 4:04PM
He's obviously talking about just the look of the sets in your first quote where your second quote is referring to the stats. Just because its a "separate line of progression." doesn't mean that the 25 wont be more difficult than the 10 mans, he's simply saying that the 10 man doesn't make it a waltz in the park to get the exact same armor, etc as the 25 man. They will both have their difficulties and rewards, with the 25 man I'm sure being harder and the rewards from that being equivalent to the extra effort and manpower required for them.
dan Jun 5th 2008 4:07PM
Thanks for the clarification, Eliah. I kinda figured as I was typing it that was the case.
In terms of which is harder: Each mode has it's own type of difficulties and solutions that blizz has baked in. 25 mans are more difficult to run because there are more moving pieces but you benefit from stronger and more adaptive raid synergy. 10 mans have more demanding spot allotments because you have fewer tools to bring to bear but you can do it with a more manageable number of people.
Bylak Jun 5th 2008 6:03PM
I don't understand the confusion by those points. The items will look similar in regards to design. The 25-person armour stats wise will be a tier above the stats of the 10-person. Same model, different stats.
Brimoonfang Jun 5th 2008 3:54PM
Yes! I definitely support this idea:
"One idea they had would be a quest that requires you to go through all the level 80 dungeons, which would then
unlock all the heroics."
Yes, yes. It is too hard to find groups for some dungeons now, but if everyone had to do ALL dungeons before any heroic, it would make finding groups much easier.
Heleth Jun 5th 2008 4:19PM
An attunement for that will be tough for alts. I'm leveling a hunter at the moment and can't for the life of me find a group for many of the dungeons. If one dungeon falls out of player-base favor because it's "too hard", or "boring", or "annoying" it locks out players to ALL the heroics.
I think both the rep method and the "do the normal once to get into the heroic" method are both preferable to an all or nothing lockout.
Mister K Jun 5th 2008 4:50PM
I don't think if they made that a requirement any instance would be ignored. Too many people love the progression game too much to let that happen. It might hurt some casual guilds for a little while but it sounds like a great idea, because not only would it make sure you knew the encounters well enought to try the heroics you would have got to have gotten at least some decent gear by default just by running all those instances
darian Jun 5th 2008 5:57PM
Things will work out as you say initially, but it wouldn't be sustainable.
There will be a huge surge of players seeking instances initially, just like BC; and just like BC that surge of players will get the gear they need to move on to Raids and Heroics, at which point they will stop running normal instances unless a guildie needs it.
At that point, anyone who missed the wave will face incredible difficulty getting attuned. It happened in BC, minus the crazy attunement, and it'll happen again.
Celton Jun 5th 2008 4:23PM
I agree. 25-mans will likely not be "harder", but they will be very different. Obviously the bosses will have more hit points, more abilities, and hit harder... but you'll have 15 more people to fight them with. The raid itself won't be more difficult but obviously organizing 25-person raids is more difficult than 10 and coordinating 25 people successfully during a boss fight is more difficult than 10 (you have an extra 15 people to mess up), therefore it results in better loot.
Eternalpayn Jun 5th 2008 4:37PM
You just said it was more difficult... but then you said it wasn't.
Anyway, thanks for the update, I wouldn't have thought of checking the EU site. Not a whole lot of new info, though...
Eternalpayn Jun 5th 2008 4:51PM
Except that Ulduar is the second tier of raids. (16:30)
Also, mostly 7 day resets, they will have the same day amount on their reset timer as their counterpart raid. (20:54)
Patchwerk will kind of be a Kael of Naxx, in that it will be a very tough checkpoint. (25:06)