Breakfast Topic: Camping out
by Amanda Dean 
Jun 6th 2008 at 8:00AM
1. You get ganked while killing Bloodscalp Trolls.
2. You resurrect and wait for the perfect opportunity to exact your retribution.
3. They log onto their level 70 and one-shot your level 32 alt.
4. You log into your 70, fold, spindle, and mutilate your foe's 70 until they cry for help.
5. Their buddy joins the fight.
6. Your buddy joins the fight.
7. Half of their guild rushes to STV.
8. Your guild matches their fire power.
It's really interesting to watch something like that happen. I'm not sure how anyone who has no 70s on the server survives the most ganktastic zones in the game. I can't quite comprehend how people can feel compelled to hang out in these zones at high levels just for ganking. I imagine that they're all either bitter about their own leveling experiences, or maybe they're short.
It seems like a lot of players like to set up their own tents near Nessignwary's Expedition on the river in STV. Now I've said before that no one is really out to ruin your day. I'm not sure that that's entirely true. Getting killed once or twice while trying desperately to turn in quests is one thing, but often times we find ourselves staring up at the spirit lady for over and over again. After a while, when alt escalation gets boring, we either spirit rez and head to a different zone, or log off and do something else a while.
Corpse camping is not a reportable form of harassment, so according to Blizzard, this behavior is just fine. My question is, how many ganks does it take for a player to feel like they're being harassed?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Breakfast Topics, Leveling, Factions, Alts
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
ant Jun 6th 2008 8:08AM
if im in a masochistic mood, i'll quest in stv on one of my alts. if i'm keen on leveling, i'd rather do the new duskwallow quests. you can avoid stv altogether in that zone.
Harmun Jun 6th 2008 11:29AM
It's almost never worth running through the STV quests on a pvp server- the benefits of having close quests that can be soloed quickly is very quickly eroded by ganking. I skip it completely on every character.
M Jun 6th 2008 8:14AM
"Now I've said before that no one is really out to ruin your day. I'm not sure that that's entirely true."
It's not true in the slightest. The PvP servers exist so maladjusted people can get their jollies by ruining someone else's day. Blizzard does a great job catering to all kinds of people, and that demographic is just one more group, albeit a large one, to cater to. Neither Horde nor Alliance is any better than the other: jerks exist on both sides in large numbers.
Anyone creating a character on a PvP server should understand that you can and will be ganked, camped, and griefed at any point in time. The only consolation is that you can freely do those things also, if you are so inclined.
Derek Jun 6th 2008 8:15AM
My druid is now a 66 and while I've leveled my Lock (70), in all her top tier arena epic glory, is not too far off. If anyone so much as looks at my druid wrong, they die... kill my druid... they get camped/corpse humped.
Chris Jun 6th 2008 3:28PM
The game is only about progression because that is the only way people are motivated to do anything. In the real world - if people have a variable compensation plan at work (commission/bonuses/etc), they will generally work specifically towards it. If they don't, they loaf.
I don't condone griefing or camping. Going specifically out of your way to ruin someone's day is not cool. The flip side, an "equal-leveled" battle IS cool - that's what World PvP is generally supposed to be. BUT - I do think "ganking" is alright too - if I'm running along in STV on my way somewhere, and spot some lowbie ally, 1/2 the time I will take him down. We probably all do. Once he's dead, keep moving. If I'm leveling an alt and get ganked in this way, no biggie either.
There is nothing wrong with that on a PvP server. It's like saying "This veteran samurai should not be allowed to kill the dude with no training and a shovel." Just don't actively try to ruin someones day.
Cynra Jun 6th 2008 8:15AM
I recently rerolled on my first PvP server after having spent the last two years or so playing on a roleplaying server. I like PvP, I love the mutability of fights, and I enjoy pitting myself against others. However, in my naiveté I'd forgotten what entering contested zones were really like.
As I almost insolently walked the road from Splintertree Post in Ashenvale west to the lake, I came across two kal'dorei. One appeared to be 70 due to the fact he was wearing what I thought was the Helm of Malorn. The other seemed to be perhaps in his mid-50s. I glanced over them, decided that they weren't worth Ildiko the Mighty's time, and continued my trek -- until the level 70 druid decided to beleauger my season 23 mageling. He cast Entangling Roots on me and then twacked me upside the head with enough force to send me zipping back to the spirit world.
Now, I'm honestly not complaining. PvP happened and if it were really an issue I'd jump server. It was just disappointing because I was absolutely looking forward to having my first PvP experience be against like-leveled individuals who would have presented me a fair challenge for supremecy and would have most likely enjoyed the fight whether or not my innards ended up splattered on the surrounding trees. I didn't look forward to have a 70 and 50-something in tow kill me. Bleh!
While I was on Arthas, however, I avoided Stranglethorn Vale like the plague -- especially anything by Nessingwary. I don't think that any of my toons there ever successfully turned in a Nessingwary quest.
Zali Jun 6th 2008 9:27AM
Nobody picks a fair fight. If they did, Rogues would wait until I finished dispatching that demon, wait till I mana up then walk up to me unstealthed, face to face, bow to the judge, bow to me, take an fighting stance and wait for the judge to start the fight.
The last thing in the world any ganking camping griefing SOB wants is a fair fight.
Thats what Arena's are for.
Throck Jun 6th 2008 1:55PM
People talk about wanting a "fair fight". What is that? The world PvP game is not balanced over one little fight. The game is balanced over the main overarching fight between the two factions. Both sides are free to have any class and any level and any number of characters. That is perfect fairness. Players can have their own (1v1, 4v8, 19v32, etc.) mini-fights within the context of the larger main fight, but fairness in the mini-fights is beyond the scope of the game in the world environment. The methods used in the mini-fights, such as ganking, are irrelevant to the greater context. The results are the same for both factions, taking into account all mini-fights that have occurred and will occur.
Zali Jun 6th 2008 2:36PM
Throck,
In the end the game is a game though. One person sitting in their home playing a game. That one person will have an effect of another individual who is also just one person sitting at home playing a game. It isn't about Factions in a larger struggle. It is about individual people in a social environment, either treating each other decently or not.
I'm not decrying PVP. I'm not even saying to change the system. I'm just saying that what you do does have an effect on someone else. Some people are just bullies, and some people aren't. Thats the way of the world, both ours and the one in Warcraft.
I am me in RL and in Warcraft. I can't be a prick in Azeroth any easier than I can to people I work with. So, I choose to defend, not offend. Gank me once, fine. Gank me twice though, and your ass is grass. I'm here to have fun, but not at the expense of others trying to have fun.
Thats what separates the asshats from decent people, both in game and in real life.
There are no factions, there is no game... without the people behind the characters. People. Humans. Individuals. NOT characters.
Bunkai Jun 6th 2008 4:07PM
/cheer Zali
+50 DKP for bringing your real personality to the game and treating it as the social environment, which it is.
+50 DKP for using on of my most favorite terms to recently make it's way into the American English vernacular... "asshat" :-D
I agree... it is a game, but at the same time, one must realize that there is a point at which by ganking/griefing others, you are affecting that person's fun. If the gankers feel how many I've dealt with in the past feel, that if the gankee doesn't like it that they can play a different game or on a different server... they must realize that it won't be long before there is no one left to gank/grief at all.
It's a very give and take society, and it must be in balance in order for everyone to continue enjoying their time there. As cool as "If it's red, it's dead" may sound, that is only a philosophy that can be followed for so long, before the red is all gone.
I'd actually vote for the revival of dishonorable kills in the form of losing honor for initiating battle against and killing any player character that is "gray" to your character. I'd say that 1 honor/ 10 reputation per level difference once the character becomes gray would be an adequate deduction. That would mean that if a level 70 character were to kill a level 30 character, they'd lose 40 honor(allowing total honor to go negative as well) and 400 rep for every capital city for their faction.
jbodar Jun 6th 2008 5:01PM
@Zali
There is a difference between ganking lowbies and a rogue/druid -- specifically, one who can gain Honor by killing you -- not challenging you to a duel though. The objective in World PvP is to win, is it not? Being able to approach from stealth and pick when to engage is a class advantage. This does not excuse lowbie-ganking AT ALL, but even if someone cannot stealth and just stumbles on you while you are fighting something, they are not automatically an asshat because they didn't wait for you to mana up and get back your cooldowns.
The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him.
- Sun Tzu
Throck Jun 6th 2008 9:50PM
@Zali and Bunkai:
I understand your points of view on ganking, but I disagree somewhat on what people may find enjoyable in the game (and in RL). There are more than two types of people, and many people play certain meta-games in their minds as they play the game.
Habitual gankers may have a bully type personality, but the player who only occasionally ganks may be doing it "just to see what happens", and a large number of these players means a large number of gankings, but that does not necessarily indicate bullying behavior.
Some players may innocently be curious about squishiness or crit numbers. How else do you satisfy that curiosity? Or some players may enjoy testing limits before consequences (e.g., retaliatory strikes) kick in. These limit-testers are probably the ones who laugh as multiple responding 70s exact catastrophic retribution. Or some players may be so drawn into the game that they RP without realizing it ("Haha, that gnome was toast. For the Horde! What? I'm not an RP'er!").
From the victim's side, what is the real cost? Most people probably would say "time" which could've been spent on "progression". Some people play just to play around, though, or even chat with friends, and the advancement of their characters is merely a side effect, so being ganked is no big deal. Also, death has no permanent effects, and you can even participate in the game while dead. Some victims are also curious about squishiness and about how they might stack up against a skull. Those players might be ones who study their combat log to see how they could resist death better the next time.
Also, at the risk of pulling an extreme analogy, what makes one thankful to be alive if there are never any disasters? Do you feel better about the game or yourself when you have gotten through a period without having been one of the ganked? Some people like the thrill of being in peril from potential gankers because it gives them a huge sense of accomplishment at having beaten the odds.
In addition, the maker of the game encourages ganking and retribution and Wild West antics when they say that your complaint about an opposite faction player has a PvP solution. In fact, one can argue that the players who follow "if it's red, it's dead" are playing the game better than anyone else because that's the logical result of the game's world PvP mechanics combined with Blizzard's in-game policies. And reviving DKs would be antithetical to that PvP philosophy and also would (re-)introduce an exception to the rules when an MMO game is generally better off with as few exceptions as possible (unless you don't mind a large whinage factor in your playerbase).
Spiritoffire Jun 6th 2008 8:19AM
I avoid this zone completely on all of my alts Except my warrior alts for their whirlwind weapon.
Tifa Jun 6th 2008 8:21AM
When my paly was lvl 38 and my friends druid was lvl 40, we jumped into the middle of nessingway and started fighting a 2 rogues, a druid, and a shaman all around lvl 40. We ended up wining the fight because they mistook me for holy or something when i started noob healing my druid friend (I'm prot) and started attacking me without much success. Of course after that they all hoped on their 70s and camped us, which in return we got on our 70s, then they called friends, we called friends, and it practically turned into a 15 man raid on each faction, all because 2 guys that were outnumbered instigated a fight with 4 guys of the same lvl range and won...
Aaron Jun 6th 2008 8:25AM
"or maybe they're just short"
LOL
emImp Jun 6th 2008 8:48AM
If my leveling brings me to STV I will allow myself getting ganked at least 2-3 times. Typically this will never happen, and because I am in paranoiac leveling mood I will level so fast that in no time I am out of quests. And often within 2 minutes I will be in the middle of a ganking fest --> Time to swap the toons or take a break. This is but one of the PvP server standards (like the Crossroads talk).
On the hand I observed that Outland ganking in form of corpse camping is also very much favored nowadays probably because of the easy HP and I believe this shows the player-base quality of the PvP server at a given time (ganking diminishes at late hours etc.).
But eye for an eye and even the other eye too and as you pickup the PvP server selection on purpose you must be aware of ganking and finally: one can not discuss being harassed by getting killed if the server's definition is such. Getting annoyed is another subject of course... which for me is every time I get PvP'ed fighting mobs.
Ahriman Jun 6th 2008 8:57AM
People who bring in their 70s every time their precious alt gets killed are the ones who have ruined world pvp. Next time try fighting back with your alt. Join with some other lowbies in the zone if you need help. Or just make it a challenge to escape to safety. Logging your 70 is a tacit admission of defeat.
Gunder Jun 6th 2008 10:11AM
Well when I'm ganked by a lvl 70 in STV I don't think logging my main is admitting defeat
Ahriman Jun 6th 2008 10:24AM
Of course it is. His goal was to ruin your leveling experience. Logging your 70 means he wins.
Naix Jun 6th 2008 10:41AM
Logging onto your 70 levels the playing field.