No pure +damage gear in Wrath, claims Kalgan
In an out-of-the-blue quote from an otherwise unremarkable PC Gamer interview, Tom "Kalgan" Chilton, WoW's lead class designer, was asked what might be changing in Wrath of the Lich King. He responded that they would be doing away with +damage-only gear, and adding talents that would convert +healing to +damage and vice versa, which would allow magic DPSers and healers to use "the exact same gear."Hold on, what? If I'm reading this correctly, it means they basically want damage caster gear and healer gear to be identical.
It's a little bit unclear, since there hasn't been much "spell-damage only" gear for a while, in that gear either has plus to some particular school of magic (like fire), +healing, or +damage and healing, which affects all schools. Additionally, since patch 2.3, +healing gear also grants one third of its value as +damage. However, what I think Kalgan's saying here is that they want there to just be one spellpower stat that drives both +damage and +healing, which is another step in that same direction. That would be super-cool.
Here's why: currently, as a priest, I need to collect two full sets of gear: my healing set, and my damage set. Obviously I can't heal mobs to death, so if I want to do dailies, grind rep, or even respec shadow for some serious pwnage, I need to take off my healy stuff and slap on the power items. All the classes that can heal, and some that can't, have similar issues. But if there was, hypothetically, one unified spellpower stat, channeled by talents to boost either +damage or +healing, this would not longer be the case.
Let's take, as an example, a staff with +100 Unified Spell Power (USP), and the Priest class. For the purposes of this demo USP works the same way as +damage and healing works now. Maybe in the Holy tree there's a talent like "An additional 300% of your USP is applied as +healing," which would mean I'd end up with +400 healing from the staff. Now in the Shadow tree, there could be a talent that says "An additional 100% of your USP is applied as +shadow damage," which would give me +200 shadow damage from the staff. The key point here is that USP still works when I don't have talents, which gives me some ability to do damage even if I'm not specced for it.
This could also be useful for classes that can do multiple types of damage, like mages. Currently, +fire damage (for instance) is cheaper in terms of itemization points that just +damage and healing, so an item of the same level can have more +fire damage than it could +damage and healing. So imagine a fire talent that made an additional 100% of your USP apply as +damage, and 30% more apply as +fire damage.
Of course, we don't want gear to become overly homogenized. One can easily imagine a fully unified stat system, where items possessed only an armor class and a +power stat, which boosts various stats for various classes (tanks get more armor, melee DPS gets more AP, and so forth). This would quickly get boring. However, USP doesn't go to far in this direction, in my opinion, and it does have the significant benefits of easing off-spec set construction and reducing the frequency with which unwanted gear drops (I recently took my rogue to a Karazhan raid instead of my priest, only to see the lovely Ritssyn's Lost Pendant sharded for lack of warlocks and priests). There will be more competition per piece of gear, but the accessible pool of gear for any given character should expand to counter this.
They could also do a similar system – and this is more in line with what Kalgan actually said – by keeping stats the way they are and just giving talents to affect them. There was a Shadow Priest talent in the alpha called Growing Pains that worked like this – converting +healing to +damage – though it has been removed in later alpha builds. So maybe you have a talent like "50% of your +healing is also applied as +damage", and one like "150% of your +damage is also applied as +healing." I don't like this approach as much, because it's basically a more cumbersome way of implementing USP, but it could work.
So let's suppose either USP or simply talents to reapply +healing as +damage and vice versa are implemented. Having to respec to properly DPS is still a bit inconvenient, not to mention that it can get expensive. This is where another thing the devs have been mentioning for Wrath comes into play: some sort of smoother respec process (unless I'm just imagining this; I can't seem to find any references or backlinks, but I could swear they mentioned something of the sort). My dream implementation would be as follows: you can have your current talent spec and one saved spec. You can switch between them at any innkeeper, for a reduced cost (maybe half-price). If you want to use a different spec, you still have to go back to your class trainer and pay full price.
Combine that with a USP stat, and it start to become much easier for people who want to play off-specs. After all, damage classes rarely have to respec or, in most cases, even swap gear to grind, do 5-mans, or raid – why should a healer or a tank?
Do bear in mind that this is pieced together from rumors, a sketchy interview quote, and blue-sky speculation. However, the groundwork for a USP stat has been laid; let me recap the evidence:
- Patch 2.3's implementation of a one-third damage-to-healing conversion
- The Growing Pains talent from the alpha (which has been removed)
- Blizzard have said they're trying to unify itemization in some other areas; for instance, Ret paladins are going to share gear with DPS warriors, and Death Knights will also share gear with DPS warriors if they're DPS-specced (with talents to convert AP to spell power).
- Primarily, of course, the thing that makes me think they might be working on USP or at least more robust +damage/+healing conversion is the Kalgan quote mentioned at the beginning of this article.
So I feel confident that they're at least moving in this direction, even if there is no intention to implement anything as radical as USP (though I think USP would be a great solution to item versatility and off-spec difficulty concerns).
Update: DeathKnight.info is also reporting on this, and they have some item screenshots from the alpha compared with from the live game, with very interesting numbers.
Filed under: Interviews, Wrath of the Lich King
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 5)
Cerelith Jun 10th 2008 1:59PM
They are talking about making it a talent to switch between healing and damage. My example shows it perfectly, as does yours. If you need to switch up for a fight while you are in an instance, you are screwed. You cant respec while you are in there.
VSUReaper Jun 9th 2008 4:27PM
Call me selfish if you want, but I dont want to half to go into an instance and fight with every other damn caster for some gear. Thats the nice thing with the way the system is now: if it has +heal on it, then its mine unless I decline it cause I have something superior. If it has +spdmg, then it goes to the lock, mage, spriest, boomkin, shaman unless they decline it, at which point it gets added to my meek spriest off-spec set. Yes, it sucks for any healer that wants to build an off set, but guess what! I would rather take 3 times longer to gear out my off spec set than have to fight with 3 other people in the group for my main spec.
makishima Jun 9th 2008 4:59PM
"if it has +heal on it, then its mine unless I decline it cause I have something superior. If it has +spdmg, then it goes to the lock, mage, spriest, boomkin, shaman unless they decline it"
So what your saying is thats its ok for 6 classes/specs to fight over 1 piece of gear, but not 7 cause you don't want to have to fight with the rest of us for it? I think I'll take you up on that offer and call you selfish.
Not that I agree with this, I think this is kind of ....well odd but who knows. Its only in Alpha right now. Until the game is on the shelf I'm not going to complain about it.
jbodar Jun 9th 2008 8:32PM
You are just proving the point that this evens out gear progression somewhat, by creating more competition. Some will gear up faster, others slower, but overall it should result in everyone getting geared up a bit faster, since there will be less gear for the "shard machine". Every drop is more likely to be "good" for someone, so someone will use the gear.
It just may not be you.
VSUReaper Jun 10th 2008 1:10PM
So what you two are saying is that its ok to walk into an instance and the healer not get anything from the run cause he/she gets some bad rolls? Your saying you have no problem hitting lvl 80 and finding out that there is a lack of decently geared healers? Yeah, good reasoning. Its ok then the way that Blizz is making it. Lets just roll with the flow. (BTW, since you never really thought it out.... if I as a healer am rolling on your caster gear, and I win it.... that means that YOU dont get it. Just one more person you have to compete against for your gear.)
jbodar Jun 10th 2008 4:11PM
You are still missing the point and thinking in terms of a single roll. Yes, there are more people rolling on your gear. However, there are now more drops that are good for your spec. Not your off-spec set, but your healing set, because you'll no longer have multiple sets in this system. You'll just have your gear that you can heal well in or DPS decently in -- but not as good as a DPS spec.
You just keep seeing it as "people are gonna roll on my drops" when you'll get to roll on theirs also. Overall, it should mean less sharded drops and more gear actually going to players. So yeah, you're just being selfish.
Schadow Jun 9th 2008 4:27PM
It'll be interesting to see how they overcome the issues. I wonder what incentives they will give for Elemental Shaman not to roll on the healing cloth. I wonder if this is a rather lazy approach to things resulting in reduced diversification.
Currently there are "best in slot" items, per class and spec. In the future will there be "best in slot" items for casters, period? Will mages and priests be visually indistinguishable?
Images of entire raiding parties looking like Attack of the Clones make me cringe.
I get the impression Bliz does not like creating new gear graphics. We bitched and moaned for some new gear graphics, and they responded with the ZA gear. That shut a lot of us up, because we didn't realise it would be THAT ugly. It got many of us to think "maybe recolouring is not so bad after all".
But this seems to go beyond recolouring and into the "one size fits all" basket.
The other thing that bothers me is that specialisation of gear meant more bang for the item point. You can have more +shadow damage to an item than +magic damage for the same item level. If you use shadow damage, that's a wonderful thing - you get stronger gear.
I think specialisation is a good thing. I think making choices is part of the flavour of the game. The concept of running an instance 50 times to get a drop makes us all cringe, but we all do it anyway and it's part of the longevity of the game. It's what triggers the reward mechanism in our brain when we finally do get what we want.
Khanmora Jun 9th 2008 4:39PM
Unless they give shaman some ungodly talent to convert spirit to mp5 there is no way any self-respecting paladin or shaman would want the cloth gear.
VSUReaper Jun 9th 2008 4:56PM
Just a note: I personally liked most of the ZA gear. Yeah, alot of it was not "pretty" but I kinda like the idea of running around with skulls and spikes sticking out of my gear. It is a fear factor. I really like the tanking and healing drops and BOJ plate that was released with ZA.
Who wants to be a pretty lil glow bug? Oops, sorry paladins. Didn't mean to step on your toes.
Iskur Jun 9th 2008 4:32PM
Once agian Kalgan just shows how lazy he is. Instead of adding varity he is making everything as homogenous as possible. Thereby making his job as easy as possible. Its the same crap he pulled in OU its the same crap he is pulling in WOW. And the press, yes wowinsider you are the press, needs to start getting on the case of bad developers like Tom Chilton. Bad movie directors don’t get passes why do bad developers? 2 years from now Chilton will be working his way up the ladder of a new MMO dev team. Once again he will have changed his name; Evocare -> Kalgan -> who knows what, and once again he will get to the top of the ladder through attrition and start tearing that game down.
bmiller Jun 9th 2008 4:58PM
@Khanmora
Clothies/leather will get spirit, mail and Plate, MP5 would be my guess.
rocketscientist Jun 9th 2008 4:35PM
So I got to thinking about why they'd be doing this. It only really changes casters, and there are enormous and very similar problems with tanking classes and gear. But this is only for casters...so....
I got one answer: Druids in PvP. They're basically using this as a way to nerf ferals in pvp, so they'll need to use more +USP itemization to achieve the same level of effectiveness in healing. The talents will be placed such that you can't get feral charge (being moved to the 31 point level) and the damage->healing improvement at the same time.
If this wasn't just aimed at druids, there'd be a very similar change effecting a warrior's defense and other mitigation stats vs attack power. It's the same problem, just from a different angle. Since they're not fixing that problem (yet?) I really think this is a druid change.
Aedaron Jun 10th 2008 12:11PM
I don't like this idea. As a resto druid I already get beat out of weapon and non-armor slots for drops by everyone else. If healers have to compete with casters then everyone will suffer for it.
Chilblain Jun 9th 2008 5:05PM
At first I thought this was a bad idea... Priests, Warlocks, & Mages all rolling on the same gear. I hope they make all the mail armor have RAP, AP & Spellpower so Shaman and Hunters can fight over it too.
Then I realized... I'm a Mage. I have to go on a raid, otherwise there will be no CC, and everyone will go hungry. So, kick the other cloth wearers and you shall have sheep and food. Do it not, and you won't be raiding today.
I still think this is a crappy idea that smacks of laziness.
max Jun 9th 2008 5:07PM
You might want to use a real source, picture of the interview: http://www.worldofraids.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=143
Ircasha Jun 9th 2008 5:07PM
What this does is heighten the potential drama for loot drops. Currently in 5 mans at least, there is rarely an argument over who gets what gear (when the gear obviously is intended for a specific class), because there are rarely more than one of any given class in the group.
By homogenizing gear, the drama factor is going to get a huge boost as healers and dps casters cat fight over the same loot.
ScottyO Jun 9th 2008 5:26PM
How does this heighten drama? How many times have you sharded a caster loot cause noone needed it or sharded a healer loot because the healer had better? Constantly. This will fix that, so you will have less wasted loots. I don't see a single downside to this. Less runs to gear your raid = win.
john thorpe Jun 9th 2008 5:34PM
They WANT more people to be able to use the same gear. Having gear that only really works for one or two people (out of the dozens of possible specs) means that it has a very high chance of being useless to everyone.
Doing it this way, less loot gets wasted. Less players will need to carry around two and three sets of gear, like my pally does.
Will you have to roll between the mage and the priest for rights to the ROBE OF UBERNESS? Probably. But it's better than the damn shaman head piece no one wants dropping, again.
On top of that, instances will be about an hour to clear, as opposed to the mind-numbing experience of some instances (at proper gear level).
Current system: You spend three hours in shadow labs to see three pieces of gear, two of which will be sharded. One person is made happy.
New system: Same three hours, but now you can run three different instances. You'll get nine drops (rather than three), only, say, two of which will get sharded. Seven loots/five people = everyone likely got something.
Sydera Jun 9th 2008 5:11PM
I wonder what they're going to do about spell hit, which damage casters have to worry about and healers do not.
john thorpe Jun 9th 2008 5:37PM
Some have suggested that they will lower the hit cap. Other say you can gem your way out of the dilemma. Maybe inscription will solve it.
In any case, there are many ways to get around the issue.