No pure +damage gear in Wrath, claims Kalgan
In an out-of-the-blue quote from an otherwise unremarkable PC Gamer interview, Tom "Kalgan" Chilton, WoW's lead class designer, was asked what might be changing in Wrath of the Lich King. He responded that they would be doing away with +damage-only gear, and adding talents that would convert +healing to +damage and vice versa, which would allow magic DPSers and healers to use "the exact same gear."Hold on, what? If I'm reading this correctly, it means they basically want damage caster gear and healer gear to be identical.
It's a little bit unclear, since there hasn't been much "spell-damage only" gear for a while, in that gear either has plus to some particular school of magic (like fire), +healing, or +damage and healing, which affects all schools. Additionally, since patch 2.3, +healing gear also grants one third of its value as +damage. However, what I think Kalgan's saying here is that they want there to just be one spellpower stat that drives both +damage and +healing, which is another step in that same direction. That would be super-cool.
Here's why: currently, as a priest, I need to collect two full sets of gear: my healing set, and my damage set. Obviously I can't heal mobs to death, so if I want to do dailies, grind rep, or even respec shadow for some serious pwnage, I need to take off my healy stuff and slap on the power items. All the classes that can heal, and some that can't, have similar issues. But if there was, hypothetically, one unified spellpower stat, channeled by talents to boost either +damage or +healing, this would not longer be the case.
Let's take, as an example, a staff with +100 Unified Spell Power (USP), and the Priest class. For the purposes of this demo USP works the same way as +damage and healing works now. Maybe in the Holy tree there's a talent like "An additional 300% of your USP is applied as +healing," which would mean I'd end up with +400 healing from the staff. Now in the Shadow tree, there could be a talent that says "An additional 100% of your USP is applied as +shadow damage," which would give me +200 shadow damage from the staff. The key point here is that USP still works when I don't have talents, which gives me some ability to do damage even if I'm not specced for it.
This could also be useful for classes that can do multiple types of damage, like mages. Currently, +fire damage (for instance) is cheaper in terms of itemization points that just +damage and healing, so an item of the same level can have more +fire damage than it could +damage and healing. So imagine a fire talent that made an additional 100% of your USP apply as +damage, and 30% more apply as +fire damage.
Of course, we don't want gear to become overly homogenized. One can easily imagine a fully unified stat system, where items possessed only an armor class and a +power stat, which boosts various stats for various classes (tanks get more armor, melee DPS gets more AP, and so forth). This would quickly get boring. However, USP doesn't go to far in this direction, in my opinion, and it does have the significant benefits of easing off-spec set construction and reducing the frequency with which unwanted gear drops (I recently took my rogue to a Karazhan raid instead of my priest, only to see the lovely Ritssyn's Lost Pendant sharded for lack of warlocks and priests). There will be more competition per piece of gear, but the accessible pool of gear for any given character should expand to counter this.
They could also do a similar system – and this is more in line with what Kalgan actually said – by keeping stats the way they are and just giving talents to affect them. There was a Shadow Priest talent in the alpha called Growing Pains that worked like this – converting +healing to +damage – though it has been removed in later alpha builds. So maybe you have a talent like "50% of your +healing is also applied as +damage", and one like "150% of your +damage is also applied as +healing." I don't like this approach as much, because it's basically a more cumbersome way of implementing USP, but it could work.
So let's suppose either USP or simply talents to reapply +healing as +damage and vice versa are implemented. Having to respec to properly DPS is still a bit inconvenient, not to mention that it can get expensive. This is where another thing the devs have been mentioning for Wrath comes into play: some sort of smoother respec process (unless I'm just imagining this; I can't seem to find any references or backlinks, but I could swear they mentioned something of the sort). My dream implementation would be as follows: you can have your current talent spec and one saved spec. You can switch between them at any innkeeper, for a reduced cost (maybe half-price). If you want to use a different spec, you still have to go back to your class trainer and pay full price.
Combine that with a USP stat, and it start to become much easier for people who want to play off-specs. After all, damage classes rarely have to respec or, in most cases, even swap gear to grind, do 5-mans, or raid – why should a healer or a tank?
Do bear in mind that this is pieced together from rumors, a sketchy interview quote, and blue-sky speculation. However, the groundwork for a USP stat has been laid; let me recap the evidence:
- Patch 2.3's implementation of a one-third damage-to-healing conversion
- The Growing Pains talent from the alpha (which has been removed)
- Blizzard have said they're trying to unify itemization in some other areas; for instance, Ret paladins are going to share gear with DPS warriors, and Death Knights will also share gear with DPS warriors if they're DPS-specced (with talents to convert AP to spell power).
- Primarily, of course, the thing that makes me think they might be working on USP or at least more robust +damage/+healing conversion is the Kalgan quote mentioned at the beginning of this article.
So I feel confident that they're at least moving in this direction, even if there is no intention to implement anything as radical as USP (though I think USP would be a great solution to item versatility and off-spec difficulty concerns).
Update: DeathKnight.info is also reporting on this, and they have some item screenshots from the alpha compared with from the live game, with very interesting numbers.
Filed under: Interviews, Wrath of the Lich King
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Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
Cyrus Jun 9th 2008 5:14PM
Combine that with a USP stat, and it start to become much easier for people who want to play off-specs. After all, damage classes rarely have to respec or, in most cases, even swap gear to grind, do 5-mans, or raid – why should a healer or a tank?
This cuts both ways, though. You might as well say that healers and tanks have a much easier time getting a group invite, so why should pure dpsers have to wait?
It sounds like it's just too early to say anything for sure. Damage-dealers will still need to respec to heal effectively and vice versa. This might save bag space on carrying around multiple gear sets, but what about regen and hit and crit, which have very different importance if you're a healer or a tank?
blackwolf675 Jun 9th 2008 5:41PM
I sincerely hope that I'm wrong, but there is something that I think many of you aren't considering:
Healing/Damage will now be influenced by your Talents as much as the gear you have.
This makes it much easier for Bliz to make sweeping changes to classes that are deemed to be doing "too well" in situations.
Instead of having to update reams worth of items, a few simple changes to the damage/healing coefficients in the talent tree and Bliz can effect changes CLASS WIDE.
You could log in one day after a patch and suddenly you're half as effective with exactly the same gear/spec layout as the previous night.
Maybe I'm bitter since I'm a sham, but I've seen Bliz pull this crap before. I won't be distracted by the shiney new icons.
We have more than a little reason to be worried.
exit stencil Jun 9th 2008 5:41PM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I liked the gear the way it was, where certain pieces were optimal for certain classes/specs but acceptable for others, and then finally passed to those who could use for off-spec. I think the homogenizing of the gear and stats is a big mistake.
Slayblaze Jun 9th 2008 5:46PM
I agree. The way things are now have helped make WoW the most successful PC game of all time, why mess with success?
S?rtogg Jun 9th 2008 5:45PM
Collecting multiple sets of gear is fun. There is no problem here, especially since they gave 1/3 spell damage on healing already.
i'm a protection warrior and I can grind dailies in a dps set pretty fast. Be proud of your tanking or healing spec and gear. It separates you from those who did not want to make a solo sacrifice for the sake of group play.
Spell power doesn't make sense. mp5 vs spell hit? It doesn't change a thing for itemization except ,more ninja looting and healers now get 2/3 spell damage on healing, which is inappropriate. You might as well let everybody freely pick their stats up to the item level.
Bunkai Jun 9th 2008 6:05PM
Geez... I hate change-for-the-sake-of-class-balance ideas... why? Because...
"Of course, we don't want gear to become overly homogenized. "
Or spec, or class, or race, or anything else that makes everyone become closer to being just another clone.
So you ask...
"After all, damage classes rarely have to respec or, in most cases, even swap gear to grind, do 5-mans, or raid – why should a healer or a tank?"
Well... simple... because you've made the decision to be a tank or a healer... neither of which a DPS class can do, and both of which they require to complete the instanced content. Each class has an individual role to fulfill and SHOULD NOT expect to be able to fulfill a role that it wasn't intended for.
Because... "This would quickly get boring."
We'd all be Elemental-casting, Dual-wielding, Raid-healing, masters of disaster... and then there'd be no more reason to have to pick a class or spec to play.
Why not just let everyone pick a race and then have the ability to equip every piece of gear and learn every spell with nothing more than a gold expense for whatever they want to have? That seems to be where this game is going... just make everything free-for-all... then the issue of balance will never come up again.
Bleh!
/end rant
jbodar Jun 9th 2008 11:07PM
You're a fool if you think, for example, a Prot Warrior will be able to match the damage output of a similarly geared Fury Warrior after this change. That's not the point. The point is to allow them to do a bit more damage, so that they are not penalized for wanting to be a team player. They'll do the job, in a pinch, but nothing more and they will still not be ideal. But it'll make people more likely to spec Prot or Holy, since the stigma of gimp DPS will be lifted a bit.
mizatt Jun 9th 2008 6:45PM
Firstly, you won't be fighting against all other casters for all caster gear. You'll be fighting primarily against whoever uses the same type of armor as yourself. Clothes will roll against clothes, elemental shamans will roll against elemental shamans, druids will roll against druids for the leather. I think this is a good change. God forbid people get a shot at a few drops that would normally be disenchanted.
You'll have more guys rolling against you, but you'll be rolling for more stuff. They'll cancel each other out.
I can understand the complaint about everyone looking the same. Otherwise, this seems like a fine change to me.
Mammy Jun 10th 2008 12:34AM
Mizatt you couldn't be more wrong. I wonder if you ever pug. If you are a clothy like a mage, you'll be rolling against all clothies AND everyone else. Druids, Shaman, Lock, Priest, all will roll on cloth. You see it all the time. People not smart enough to know the difference, just see big spell numbers and roll on it, since "its better then what I have now." Hell I've even seen mages roll on healing gear before for 1 dmg. And as a clothy, you can't roll on their stuff, so you screwed.
mizatt Jun 10th 2008 12:38AM
You basically just made my argument for me. Homogenizing gear like this will make the gear more flexible and what you described won't be a problem anymore.
gnoop Jun 10th 2008 3:59PM
Completely wrong. You will be fighting not only with the other healers, you'll be fighting with every caster that sees a dps upgrade out of this. Have you learned nothing from the pvp-for-pve gear? Worthless stats on gear (ie. resilience in pve for a caster) aren't a big concern so long as the primary stat gets a boost. I already see Shaman rolling on leather with +spirit because, hey, it's still better than that blue item they're wearing.
We'll see more competition over the same gear. Worse, guilds may well have to enforce healer priority on spell power gear like they sometimes do with tier tokens for tanks. You'll end up with either bitter healers that at least used to be able to look forward to some healing gear dropping now and then, which now have to fight with every caster that wants an upgrade or you'll push priority on the gear and piss off many casters that have to wait for the priority healers to get their gear first.
At least with separate gear for the two, both groups had a shot at gear without fighting with each other. They were just hoping for a lucky roll of the RNG. Seems like Blizzard wants to limit the RNG. If so, why not just tokenize everything and be done with it?
jtrain Jun 9th 2008 7:38PM
Less gear wasted during runs = good thing. Whether too many casters are fighting over the same pieces remains to be seen.
I honestly hope Blizz doesn't underestimate the importance of many different armor models. Just look at mounts; all of those special epic land mounts move at the same speed. So why do players bother to get them? They look cool!
Same thing with armor. I would be happier if they had multiple sets of gear with the exact same stats. The only difference would be various particle effects that activate when you get 3/5 or 5/5 pieces. This would make gear collection a fun, optional exercise.
Just want the best stats? You only need one set. Want that uber cool looking set w/ the crazy lights? Collect it if you want.
Tbear Jun 9th 2008 8:42PM
I wish we all wore uniforms anyway based on class/faction/race. Get a new suit every ten levels. Then gear could be about stats alone and none of this vanity crap. All the little Warcraft units looked just alike.
Balgair Jun 9th 2008 8:56PM
This worries me a lot. if talents are required to make gear give the stats it needs, firstly, what happens to low level characters who haven't got talent points yet/want to get stuff in a different tree first? Secondly (and most importantly to me as a 70 holy priest), does it mean healers get no or little damage from their gear unless they respec? And a healer specced to damage gets little to no +healing?
As things stand currently, I have a nice talent build that lets me heal anything I want, and then with a simple switch of gear, go and solo my dailies or farm a bit with pretty reasonable dps. This stats change is NOT going to change the fact that I need 2 sets of gear, because, last I checked, healing stats did not include spellhit or crit, both of which are extremely useful if not essential to a soloing holy priest (surge of light anyone?)
So, I've got to collect my 2 sets no matter what, and if this forces me to also cough up for a respec every single time I want to go solo something and then heal (which is usually many times a day, I tend to alternate dailies and BGs/instances), I'm going to be just a little pissed off... as I imagine will a lot of healers.
"If it ain't broke..."
Jack Spicer Jun 9th 2008 9:29PM
I'm not sure that this change will make too much of a difference, especially at raid level.
If you're a healer, you just wouldn't roll on the gear with +hit on it.
And hopefully there will be gear that doesn't have +hit on it.
Anteia Jun 9th 2008 9:29PM
I'm clearly quite confused on all this.. but... if it requires respeccing, what about situations where someone might be required to offheal a fight when they're specc'd damage? Can they not raise their healing to be somewhat okay if they've gathered gear carefully? My balance druid has about +1000 healing when I switch into healing gear and have to off-heal a fight. Would I just not have to switch gear and still have the same amount of healing as I do now but still be balance spec? Or would this change, in fact, gimp me in my attempts to do that?
kabshiel Jun 9th 2008 10:39PM
I think it's really smart that Blizzard is trying to make gear more desirable to multiple classes. There's nothing more annoying than having to disenchant gear because no class in your group needs that exact distribution of stats. Now with all the cloth classes needing pretty much the same thing, this won't be as much of a problem. I'm curious what they're going to do about spell hit, and to a lesser extent crit, however.
Yttarion Jun 10th 2008 3:49AM
Interesting article.
I think I like whats been done here, though I think you have missed the most fundimental point. You mention mostly the mage/warlock/priest combination and how this change will affect itemisation for these classes. However, I cannot help but feel that the most far reaching implications of this change are going to be felt by elemental and restoration shaman and balance and restoration druids. These classes by and large (with the exception of Tier gear in most cases) arent fully itemised and this change will instantly double the viable items available to those who choose to spec into these talent trees. To me, this seems very promising.
The one thing Blizzard is going to have to be very careful of is how they manage the talents which will increase this 'USP' to levels required to be viable.
For the hybrid classes, this will require the expenditure of talent points into one specific talent, which will invariably be a compulsory talent if you seek to remain viable. This will create a very tenuous balance which has the ability to make-or-break certain classes and specs.
It will be very interesting to see where this goes; I feel the designers are going to have to be very, very careful with how they impliment this.
jbodar Jun 10th 2008 4:52PM
RE: Talents
I was thinking the same thing, though the effect could easily be added to an existing talent that is core to the spec mechanic so you won't automatically lose 1/3/5 talent points on each build.
Sleepy Jun 10th 2008 5:59AM
Healers generally need more +heal than the casters need +dmg. In our raids, dps are around or a bit over 1000 spell damage, but our healers are at 2000 bonus healing or more.
It really wouldn't eliminate all itemization, though. Healers will be looking for more mp5, spirit, etc., whereas items with spell hit will be immediately tagged as dps gear. I suppose the developers realize that raid drops that are very specific do get DE'd a lot. They started to address this with the Sunwell, though, and the drops that could be converted from damage to healing or vice versa with a sunmote.
Still... I'm happy with things as they are, post-2.3. That little extra damage on the healing gear works very nicely.