Season 4 and PvE progression
by Mike Schramm 
Jun 9th 2008 at 8:00PM
Drysc gave a little insight into how the Arena seasons are scheduled over on the forums -- I had always thought that the Arenas were running on their own schedule (with the spaces in between augmented by when patches got released). But apparently the timing of Arena seasons has more to do with PvE content than anything else.Strange, no? But true -- Drysc said that they want Sunwell Plateau gear to "circulate" a bit more before introducing a new Arena season. That means that the players running PvE content are actually calling the shots for when the Arena season ends -- if guilds take their time getting through the Sunwell raid, it may be a long time before we see any signs of Arena season 4.
That's interesting -- obviously a lot of players consider PvE and PvP to be completely different parts of the game, but not so with Blizzard. Apparently they consider them very much two sides of the same player base, so much so that even something as arbitrary as PvE gear distribution determines timing of the Arena seasons.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Instances, Raiding, NPCs, Arena
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Wiedmaier Jun 9th 2008 8:09PM
Given the quality of gear one could attain, it could make some sense to hold off and let progression circulate the newer gear before allowing players to jump to S4 gear.
Jason Jun 10th 2008 12:49PM
Considering about 2% of people are at the point where they can do Sunwell...Blizz just wants to force everyone to hold on to their arena & honor points longer...No one is buying now and no one will buy.
I personally hate raiding so I PvP for my game. If blizz neglects the larger portion of players, there will be more players "WoW: Waiting on Warhammer"
Svenn Jun 9th 2008 8:21PM
It doesn't make sense at all - if they wanted equal progression they would not allow people who do pve the huge advantage of having tier 6.5 level weapons while pvpers left behind with season 3 weapons.
All blizzard achieves by doing this is delaying the carrot on the stick so that they have more than enough time to finish Wrath before season 4 begins to wear down.
Dist Jun 9th 2008 8:41PM
It makes sense, sunwell content is isolated to maybe 3-4 guilds a server, but EVERYONE has access to season 4 gear. There's also the fact that blizzard more than likely wants players to attempt sunwell with current gear instead of getting the advantage with season 4 gear etc.
Pzychotix Jun 9th 2008 9:32PM
Only problem is that S4 gear < PVE gear for PVE. The only items that are superior for most classes are the weapons, which are only available to those who can achieve 2050 PR, which is a bit harder than facerolling through BT/Hyjal.
Johnnycash99 Jun 10th 2008 7:23PM
"Face-rolling through BT/Hyjal"?? Whoaaa there. Not to Troll, but 25-man elite raiding is atleast as difficult if not more so than attaining a 2050 PR. Success dependant on 24 others or at worst, 4 others, hmmm...
How long does it take to gear up a 5's team vs 25+ raiders?
Zeplar Jun 9th 2008 8:41PM
Hmm, it seems that s4 would be released at the SAME time as sunwell, if that were the case...
Seems like they're saying "let's let everyone get sunwell gear before we let the PVP'ers start on"
Then again, "everyone" is a loose term. Both raid gear and PVP gear is now MUCH harder to attain (ratings on all gear)
Karza Jun 9th 2008 8:46PM
This is what you have to do when the end game is gear based and you have to balance your PvE content with a bolted on PvP system innovated from another game that is not gear based.
In my opinion though the basic premise of this article points out one of the elements that I have always been disappointed with which is how badly Blizzard has managed to integrate participation in PvE and PvP. Just about every aspect of the game, from gear to player specs, drives players to make a choice to do one OR the other. (Or have separate toons for one or the other.) To me this has really gutted this game's sense of close knit community and server pride. People who choose PvP could care less about PvE guild progression on their servers and people who choose PvE belittle and revile in even the existence of the other. There is no meaningful interaction of the two aside from random escalating ganking on the PvP servers.
Would have loved to seen a more integrated approach where PvE accomplishments would aid PvP access and PvP success would have an impact on PvE. How DAoC managed the Darkness Falls dungeon is a perfect example. For now we're stuck with "welfare epics" and snobbish/elitist raiders.
Taeo Jun 10th 2008 10:02AM
While it is true that WoW's PvP system is more or less "bolted on" Blizzard wouldn't have done it if they didn't believe that was what their players wanted. Nearly every PvP addition to the game has been wildly popular so why wouldn't they continue bolting more on.
Your point about the separation of PvE and PvP is perfectly valid. I myself used to be in a high end raiding guild pre-TBC that also PvP'd together with great success. When cross faction battlegrounds were released our guild became a point of pride for our server.
I miss that but I understand why it had to go - the people in our guild that valued PvP the most were absolute addicts. They would raid for 30+ hours a week and then PvP on top of it. It's not healthy. But if you wanted to be good at PvP you needed the gear. People who couldn't keep up were left in the dust. And I mean in the dust. As a Mage I would stack nothing but +dmg and crit gear and two shot everyone. Survivability was hardly a concern because people would die too quickly.
Nowadays it's all changed if you want to just PvP and nothing else you have that option. I would have quit long ago if it weren't for that fact and so too I believe would many others.
The only hope for integrating PvE and PvP more closely now is with world PvP - and if you've been keeping up with WotLK news you know that Blizzard has something up it's sleeve.
Marguerite Jun 9th 2008 8:49PM
The real reason behind this I think is to give people something to do after PVE content is finished. It's the last big thing to do that they'll give us before wrath. Releasing S4 at the same time the guilds are playing Sunwell would divide people's attention. It makes sense to me.
Pzychotix Jun 9th 2008 9:33PM
You're missing out on the fact that not everyone's in Sunwell. Only 4% of people are currently in Sunwell, while everyone else is sitting around in a stagnant world. PVPers would like something to do as well.
Jagoex Jun 9th 2008 8:49PM
Careful. Pretty soon we'll be seeing PvP gear available through PvE encounters and vice versa.
Wait a minute...
*cough*
Esk Jun 10th 2008 5:06AM
Unfortunately that's only one way around, discrediting PvP efforts completely.
With PvE obtained badges, you can buy the PvP gear:
T4 -> S1
T5 -> S2
T6 -> S3
So if you're nicely going in black temple, you need no worries in getting your almost full S3 arena set (except shoulders), having an amazing 1200 rating in PvP.
However, the arena points don't allow you to buy the PvE items. So if you're a high skilled player getting ~1000 arena points / week and having nothing left to buy with them, blizzard doesn't think you're worthy enough to skip some of the farming and at least allow buying some T4-5 gear.
Jagoex Jun 10th 2008 5:45AM
Trust me, if you're in full S3 and worried about getting farm content raid gear, you haven't been introduced to the concept of purposeful re-socketing.
S3 gear is very competitive with (if not flat out better than) T4-T5 raid gear when gemmed and 'chanted for PvE content. That means filling them up with +Hit, +Spell Hit, and whatever stats you as a PvPer need until you get the desired effect for entry level raiding. No, you don't get amazing set bonuses or anything like that, until that high level PvP gear easily carries you through the content, that
is. ;)
But aside from all of that, you're right, in a sense. We won't ever see PvE gear available to the PvPer in the same way that PvP gear is available to the PvEer. PvP gear comes just a bit too quickly, and giving players fast access to top end raid gear would be just incredibly wrong on so many levels.
But who knows? Maybe we will see it happen someday. Blizzard isn't known to be a completely "fair" company, are they? ;)
- HWL "Still pissed about the burning shoulders issue" Jagoex
http://jagoex.blogspot.com
Belkar Jun 9th 2008 9:36PM
Interesting that we're still more than 2 weeks out from season 4, but potentially less than 4 months out from Wrath. Won't be a whole lot of time to be interested in season 4, I'd think.
Silence Jun 10th 2008 5:08AM
We aren't four months from Wrath, regardless of what over-optimistic retailers want you to spend your money on for the holidays. Several classes don't even have talent trees yet for Wrath.
Xetan Jun 10th 2008 8:58AM
@ Silence,
We only know certain classes that have trees some may have them even though we havnt seen them yet.
Eternalpayn Jun 9th 2008 10:14PM
Season 4 will open up the iLevel and look of Sunwell gear to a lot of people. They think raiders should get their shot at it first. Simple as that.
jerzz80 Jun 10th 2008 8:54AM
Were all tryign to figure it out becuase it just doesnt make any sense.
75% of the PVP world is standing still for last 3 months. Of that population probably 30% are fully capped with Honor and Arena Points. Jsut sitting. Waiting. For sunwell? It just doesnt compute.
My theory: They want more PVPrs doign something other than grinding BGs.
Well, its my game. I can do what I want when the Communist Dictators (Blizzard) let me.
jay Jun 9th 2008 10:34PM
I don't really think it's anything to do with PvE progression at all, just another excuse to further delay S4 while also throwing the hungry fish a bucket full of guts to chew on (by that I mean us, and the theories we come up with) who's right, who's wrong, who cares?... keeps us busy and bitching is what it's about.
IMHO, S4 will be announced right after the end on the arena tournament, seems to me the most logical approach.