Forum post of the day: Arena Leagues
by Amanda Dean 
Jun 13th 2008 at 1:04AM
We all know that it can be hard for new level 70 characters to break into the arena. Many people start out playing their 10 games a week in order to scrounge up arena points for their first PvP pieces. Welfare epics? Maybe, but having decent gear makes it easier for many players to progress. It make some time for players to really learn to play their classes in a competitive PvP setting. Despite their best efforts, Blizzard has largely failed at fixing problems in the arenas.
Cyrse of Farstriders suggested the creation of a minor league arena with reduced rewards to help players get their feet wet in PvP. The oginal poster listed several advantages of such a system. A minor league for PvP might discourage point and team selling, which despite Blizzard's efforts is persistent in the arena. It would also allow elite players to only be bracketed with folks who give them more of a challenge.
There would be disadvantages to such a system. The Cyrse mentioned that it would create of smaller pool of players in each arena league and it would require the development of a new system of arena reqards. Other flaws mentioned by responders included the idea that players would most likely to get grief from more skilled/better geared players. Players might also miss out by not being able to enjoy PvP with their friends at different levels, then again, you can't turn Level 70 and immediately expect to be invited to a Black Temple Raid.
Back in my Utopia days, there were two worlds available, the World of Legends and the Battlefields. World of Legends was a more relaxed play where many people started and then they would be moved up to the Battlefields if their kingdom was among the top finishers. I could see something similar happening in arenas. I hate to see players driven off from PvP because of the perception of futility.
Some posters mentioned that ratings below 1500 qualify as the minor leagues. I know that a lot of our readers avoid the arenas altogether. If there was a more training-oriented option for the arenas, would you consider it? And for readers that love the arenas, would the concept of leagues appeal to you?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Forums, Arena, Forum Post of the Day
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
darksteady Jun 13th 2008 1:43AM
meh.
Grimtar Jun 13th 2008 5:00AM
Hooray for another Utopia->WoW convert!
(and as someone who plays Arena very casually, I kinda like the idea too)
voltarin Jun 13th 2008 2:31AM
I can relate to this
As a 2 week old level 70, I started out in Arena's only just 2 days ago getting my 10 games worth in.
Blizzard in their infinite wisdom paired us against people in full S3 gear
Us in reputation blues got one-hit most times.
Managed to win 2 games out of 8 though which wasnt bad.
The point I am trying ot make is that Blizzard need a system where they pair us n00bs against other n00bs. A minor league may be the answer, I think a better way would be to have people change into their arena gear when they queue for a match. The game then assigns a point value to the gear based on stats. This point value then becomes a marker for a seeding system where low points play low points and high points play high points.
The arena team is no indicator since they can be disbanded and started up again easily.
I am sick of being "farmed" for points. With the gear reset forthcoming in the expansion........are n00bs like me really going to be that motivated to take up Arena now when we are one hit by teams in full epics?
matt Jun 13th 2008 5:24AM
The problem is that their rating system is broken. There's no minor league necessary-- they just need a working rating system. Chess noobs don't get paired up against Gary Kasparov and Bobby Fisher, yet Blizzard's "same as chess!" system does just that all the time.
berserkerlxl Jun 13th 2008 2:37AM
I remember when i first hit 70, I had to pvp as a prot warrior. Good thing I had my brother do 2v2 with me. We stayed at around 1550-1600.
Gene Jun 13th 2008 3:06AM
Quote: you can't turn Level 70 and immediately expect to be invited to a Black Temple Raid.
Actually thats not true, we recently had one of our guildmates reroll a prot pally, we took him to hyjal at 68 and he had 2 piece t6 and hammer of judgement before turning 70.
Hybrys Jun 13th 2008 3:51AM
Rerolling is probably the only way you'd ever see a fresh to 70 player in BT. So, sue him for having ONE exception.
Gentber Jun 13th 2008 3:55AM
I'm about to turn 70 this weekend (yay) and although the concept of Arenas doesn't interest me that much, I know there's not much point in me even setting foot in there out of curiousity.
Then again I can get my rep blues as soon as I ding, I've got honour and marks saved up for some s2 so maybe I won't get completely steamrolled but BGs just seem a more entertaining form of PvP, especially when you can look out over AB from the Lumber Mill and realise that people are actually defending the flags, and talking to each other! *sobs of joy*
PimpyMicPimp Jun 13th 2008 4:26AM
I don't get WoW PvP.
Any FPS has superior gameplay and balance. WoW will never be able to compete with FPS', at least small scale. WoW PvP should be more about BG's, IMO. It'll be easier to balance and is much more Warcraft-esque than 2-5 people dueling.
More BGs, pl0x.
Ircasha Jun 13th 2008 9:47AM
Amen to that!
I'd like to see another 40 vs 40 or larger BG, different maps for existing BGs, and a revamped reward set for the BGs as a whole.
Babe Jun 13th 2008 5:32AM
I would DEMAND a solution for battlegrounds too. The twink infestation is a problem, and to have a small "ratting" in BG's would separate people with roughtly different gear and skill, into different and more competitive BG's.
Yes, queueing would be a problem if things stay like they are now, unless more people are attracted to play BG's because of that.
Darr Jun 13th 2008 7:54AM
"I hate to see players driven off from PvP because of the perception of futility.
"
This is why I stopped pvp completely on my rogue. By the end of Season one my friends and I couldn't break 1600 as we were all fairly new to lvl70 pvp, and the people we were fighting either steamrolled us or toyed with us.
Once we couldnt take down one member of their 3v3 since they had almost full season two gear, and they taunted my friends Mage (since the other two of us were dead) and would only hit him enough to take him to half health. He being stubborn would bandage himself, attack ...oh wait! half health...eventually he had to quit to give them the win. How is that fun?
Half way through season two we disbanded as alot of people had alot more arena rewards and we had no chance at all. I even stopped BGs since one or two pieces couldn't hold up to fully geared arena players.
Since then I have made two more lvl 70's, a mage and a shammy, took them in BGs at lower levels and had a blast.
Once I hit 70 and went in I realized again that I had no chance. Even if I buy all the Pvp rep blues I can't see it being worth it anymore except to get the epic war mount. Once that is done I'm never going back.
It was futile and because of it I wish Blizzard would make servers without PvP at all, no BGs or arena, just PvE.
Mel Jun 13th 2008 8:03AM
Quote: I wish Blizzard would make servers without PvP at all, no BGs or arena, just PvE.
You are not the only one.
Freehugz Jun 13th 2008 5:16PM
"I even stopped BGs since one or two pieces couldn't hold up to fully geared arena players"
sounds like you're pretty terrible at this PvP stuff.
Whenever I'm in a bg it seems like there's 4 people running around in blues to every 1 geared player.
native Jun 13th 2008 8:11AM
i keep waiting for the day when i see a post on how "Blizzard Does Away With Arenas!".
today is not that day.
/cry
Cremean Jun 13th 2008 8:24AM
First of all, WTB Proofread.
Second of all, if you are bad at PvP it will reflect in your arena rating, and like matt said, Blizzard just needs to fix their matching system.
mcclary Jun 13th 2008 9:20AM
It can be tough and one of the problems I think is the length of the arena season.
Season 3 will be 30 weeks long. At 250 points/week (just below 1500 rated 2v2) you will have 7500 arena points over the course of season 3. Thats almost enough to get 4/5 S3 and S2 shoulders. Then with the honor you could have full vindicators, S1 weapons, etc. For sitting at 1500, that is some very nice gear. So its very possible and common for people to face (nearly) full S3 teams at any rating.
I am not trying to start a welfare epic discussion. I also think the arena matching system is flawed. The other night we lost 1 point in a match.
ShadowEric Jun 13th 2008 10:10AM
the following is taken from http://wow.curse.com/articles/details/9636/
which is an interview with Tom Chilton:
"Curse: With all the changes you're introducing -- 10-person instances for every raid instance -- can we expect a similar shift for the Arena and Honor systems, where the Honor system is basically the equivalent of 10-person, and Arena is 25?
TC: Certainly the itemization is going through some changes to reflect that. The way we have it set up is, the highest end of the Arena gear and some of the Honor gear that has Arena requirements on it will actually be equivalent to 25-man raid instances. So when Season 1 starts for level 80 Arenas, the best stuff that has really high rating requirements, kind of like what you're seeing for the Season 4 rating requirements, will mirror the 25-man Naxxramas quality. Then we'll have a middle tier that's below that, that has lower rating requirements and is much cheaper, but it parallels the 10-person raiding quality. And then we're also going have a tier below that of PvP gear, that has no requirements at all, and it parallels the Heroic dungeon quality gear. So we do plan to start out with multiple tiers right out of the gate, and we're going to make sure that the best stuff also feels, from PvP, kind of equivalently difficult to get as the best stuff from PvE. So we're trying to equalize the balance a bit better."
Close enough...
Sherp Jun 13th 2008 11:19AM
The "minor league arena" he's suggesting sounds a lot like regular Battlegrounds.
Krick Jun 13th 2008 12:36PM
Can you say "Arena Twink"?
...
Krick
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