WoW, Casually: Is it feasible to play PvE casually? (Reader Mail)
Each week or so, Robin Torres writes WoW, Casually for the player who has 2 hours or less to play at a time.
This time I'm answering an email from Jesse.
Hi Robin,
So I used to play WoW all the time. Actually, too much. So I did the whole "delete your characters and quit cold turkey" thing. Like 3 different times. Anyway, right now my account is on hold, but it's got a 38 rogue and a 56 mage (albeit both of them are naked, since I tried to sabotage myself and give hundreds of gold away when I quit last...).
The two reasons I quit are very closely related: one is that I just played too much; and the other is that I started to think that, if you don't play all the time, there's no getting anywhere. I like PvE more than PvP, so I guess the end result of that would have to be raiding, right? But I can't sit down at my computer for 7 hours to do a raid, or spend whatever god-awful amount of time it would take in a week to run kara (I don't know how long it would take to do that instance... and I don't think I want to know). I mean, don't get me wrong, I do like all the little things like professions and questing (even solo) and a good instance is always fun as long as you don't have idiots screwing it up... Anyways, my question is, can a person with a real life (and a real 50-hour a week job) actually play WoW, and have fun, and still have a life? (and dare I say, maybe even still have a girlfriend?). I am skeptical, but I don't know, and I'd like to get back in if you think it's actually feasible.
Jesse
P.S. Also (if I do decide to get back into the game), since [my server] is (and always has been) underpopulated, do you think it would be worthwhile transferring to a more populated server? Or is that just overrated?
Hey Jesse,
The short answer is yes, absolutely. And I think that the readers of this column will agree with me. You can play the WoW, PvE-style while still having a real life.
First of all, I think you've been misinformed about how long it takes to do endgame instances. Sure, the first time a guild tries an instance, it takes a long time to get through each part. But a group that has good gear and knows what it's doing can do Karazhan in 2 hours. A casual raiding guild will probably average 3 to 4 hours to complete a 10-man raid. So you do not have to play all the time to get anywhere in the endgame. Also, there are a lot of things for those of us with more limited playtime: instances (regular and heroic), crafting daily quests, faction daily quests, etc. And it's only going to get better in the expansion. But because your game time has taken over your life in the past, you will need to have a plan if you want to come back without succumbing to overplaying again.
Over on our sister site Massively, I wrote a column about Playtime Management. I recommend giving that a read. The main thing I want you to get out of it, however, is to make yourself a schedule. Schedule everything else you need and want to do during the week first and then see what time you have left to play. Then schedule blocks of gametime and stick to it. Don't play longer than your scheduled time (you need your sleep) and don't play when you are not scheduled. You may find that you can schedule a couple of 4 hour blocks of time a week and then, when you get to 70, you will be able to raid. Or you may find that you can only play for 2 hour sessions which is really enough time to get an instance done with a good group.
The problem you may have on a low population server is getting good groups together with people who have schedules that are similar to yours. You may luck out, but the likelihood increases with the population. Also, it can be hard selling crafted items and drops on the AH to a depressed economy. A higher population server with a healthy economy and a good mix of casual and raiding guilds is really the place to be to get the most out of your playtime. Even if you never end up raiding, hardcore raiders are great at gobbling up consumables at high prices and they do instances so often that getting into one of their PuGs can mean a speedy, efficient experience.
Right now you have a couple of mid to late-mid level characters who are naked and broke on a low population server. I really wouldn't recommend transferring them to a new server if only because it is going to be hard to re-gear them and get back into the swing of playing them. I think it would be a good idea to start fresh on a high population PvE server. It will take some legwork to find the right one. I recommend hanging out in the realm forums and seeing if there is one without queues that has a community with which you feel comfortable. Someone in the comments in this article may also have good PvE server suggestions.
If you find the idea of leveling up a character from scratch daunting, there are easy to read guides out there to make it faster:
The main reason I recommend re-rolling instead of transferring is so that you can develop online relationships with people. The best way to get into a good guild is to group on your way up the levels. If you are a good groupie and have a similar schedule to some other good groupies that are guilded, the chances of your being invited to their guild is high. If you transfer in all nekkid and rusty, you'll look like a noob when grouping on your mage and that can be hard to overcome. You also may want to try a class that interests you but that can heal or tank. DPSers are a dime a dozen when looking for a group. Being a good tank or healer is a great way to get lots of invites (whether you want them or not) to groups on the way up and instances and raids in the endgame.
A large portion of WoW players are adults with jobs who have fun playing the PvE parts of the game. So, yes, you can have a real life and enjoy PvE from level 1 to 70 and beyond. But you have to make sure you get your real life taken care of in order to earn your leisure time and if you don't think you can stick to a schedule, you may not want to attempt coming back. But if you have the discipline and you obviously enjoy the game, then I do think that playing on a server with a healthy population will make things easier and more fun.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.

WoW, Casually is a column for those of us who are playtime-challenged and proud Welfare Epic wearers. If you have questions or tips about how to get the most out of your limited playtime, please send them to Robin.Torres AT weblogsinc DOT com for a possible future column.
This time I'm answering an email from Jesse.
Hi Robin,
So I used to play WoW all the time. Actually, too much. So I did the whole "delete your characters and quit cold turkey" thing. Like 3 different times. Anyway, right now my account is on hold, but it's got a 38 rogue and a 56 mage (albeit both of them are naked, since I tried to sabotage myself and give hundreds of gold away when I quit last...).
The two reasons I quit are very closely related: one is that I just played too much; and the other is that I started to think that, if you don't play all the time, there's no getting anywhere. I like PvE more than PvP, so I guess the end result of that would have to be raiding, right? But I can't sit down at my computer for 7 hours to do a raid, or spend whatever god-awful amount of time it would take in a week to run kara (I don't know how long it would take to do that instance... and I don't think I want to know). I mean, don't get me wrong, I do like all the little things like professions and questing (even solo) and a good instance is always fun as long as you don't have idiots screwing it up... Anyways, my question is, can a person with a real life (and a real 50-hour a week job) actually play WoW, and have fun, and still have a life? (and dare I say, maybe even still have a girlfriend?). I am skeptical, but I don't know, and I'd like to get back in if you think it's actually feasible.
Jesse
P.S. Also (if I do decide to get back into the game), since [my server] is (and always has been) underpopulated, do you think it would be worthwhile transferring to a more populated server? Or is that just overrated?
Hey Jesse,
The short answer is yes, absolutely. And I think that the readers of this column will agree with me. You can play the WoW, PvE-style while still having a real life.
First of all, I think you've been misinformed about how long it takes to do endgame instances. Sure, the first time a guild tries an instance, it takes a long time to get through each part. But a group that has good gear and knows what it's doing can do Karazhan in 2 hours. A casual raiding guild will probably average 3 to 4 hours to complete a 10-man raid. So you do not have to play all the time to get anywhere in the endgame. Also, there are a lot of things for those of us with more limited playtime: instances (regular and heroic), crafting daily quests, faction daily quests, etc. And it's only going to get better in the expansion. But because your game time has taken over your life in the past, you will need to have a plan if you want to come back without succumbing to overplaying again.
Over on our sister site Massively, I wrote a column about Playtime Management. I recommend giving that a read. The main thing I want you to get out of it, however, is to make yourself a schedule. Schedule everything else you need and want to do during the week first and then see what time you have left to play. Then schedule blocks of gametime and stick to it. Don't play longer than your scheduled time (you need your sleep) and don't play when you are not scheduled. You may find that you can schedule a couple of 4 hour blocks of time a week and then, when you get to 70, you will be able to raid. Or you may find that you can only play for 2 hour sessions which is really enough time to get an instance done with a good group.
The problem you may have on a low population server is getting good groups together with people who have schedules that are similar to yours. You may luck out, but the likelihood increases with the population. Also, it can be hard selling crafted items and drops on the AH to a depressed economy. A higher population server with a healthy economy and a good mix of casual and raiding guilds is really the place to be to get the most out of your playtime. Even if you never end up raiding, hardcore raiders are great at gobbling up consumables at high prices and they do instances so often that getting into one of their PuGs can mean a speedy, efficient experience.
Right now you have a couple of mid to late-mid level characters who are naked and broke on a low population server. I really wouldn't recommend transferring them to a new server if only because it is going to be hard to re-gear them and get back into the swing of playing them. I think it would be a good idea to start fresh on a high population PvE server. It will take some legwork to find the right one. I recommend hanging out in the realm forums and seeing if there is one without queues that has a community with which you feel comfortable. Someone in the comments in this article may also have good PvE server suggestions.
If you find the idea of leveling up a character from scratch daunting, there are easy to read guides out there to make it faster:
- Class leveling guides: Each of our class column writers here at WoW Insider have written leveling guides for their classes. These are a great read for anyone who wants to know what talents to pick and how to best use their class skills while bringing up an alt or a young main.
- Faction leveling guides: I can't tell you how much I love Jame's Leveling Guides, particularly the Horde ones. They make leveling fun and efficient with maps and tips and everything you need to quest your way up to 70.
The main reason I recommend re-rolling instead of transferring is so that you can develop online relationships with people. The best way to get into a good guild is to group on your way up the levels. If you are a good groupie and have a similar schedule to some other good groupies that are guilded, the chances of your being invited to their guild is high. If you transfer in all nekkid and rusty, you'll look like a noob when grouping on your mage and that can be hard to overcome. You also may want to try a class that interests you but that can heal or tank. DPSers are a dime a dozen when looking for a group. Being a good tank or healer is a great way to get lots of invites (whether you want them or not) to groups on the way up and instances and raids in the endgame.
A large portion of WoW players are adults with jobs who have fun playing the PvE parts of the game. So, yes, you can have a real life and enjoy PvE from level 1 to 70 and beyond. But you have to make sure you get your real life taken care of in order to earn your leisure time and if you don't think you can stick to a schedule, you may not want to attempt coming back. But if you have the discipline and you obviously enjoy the game, then I do think that playing on a server with a healthy population will make things easier and more fun.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
WoW, Casually is a column for those of us who are playtime-challenged and proud Welfare Epic wearers. If you have questions or tips about how to get the most out of your limited playtime, please send them to Robin.Torres AT weblogsinc DOT com for a possible future column.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, WoW, Casually, Leveling







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Aaron Jun 13th 2008 11:20AM
Robin covered everything I would've thought to mention. Really nice article.
Our *guild* kind of had a revelation like this at one point. Everyone thought 'raiding preoccupies so much time and we aren't that hardcore, etc etc...' but it was mainly because we tried to remain 'casual' and people would show up late, and leave early and we'd wipe because we wouldn't know the fights.
After a bit of reorganization we started the group in our guild tagged as 'dedicated'. The ones who are willing to sign up and show up, to have all thier potions and ready to go at start time. The ones who read the fights and don't make us explain A'lar yet again.
2 and a half hours a night. Twice a week. Sure we might not move that fast but when you keep things efficient and quick, you can still experience at least some of the end game stuff while getting one other thing out of the game....having fun with friends.
I work about 45 hours a week but am on call 24/7 and my guild understands that. I meet up with friends in the outside world, go wandering around town and while I still do play quite a bit...the 'raiding' portion isn't the huge timesink. Raiding takes the equivalent of watching a long movie two nights out of the week.
To me, thats justifiable.
Jim Jun 13th 2008 12:08PM
I think this is the most realistic idea. My F+F guild has trouble getting things going, not bringing alts, bringing pots, etc. If you can get your 10 who buff and prepare and raid spec, you could raid with a fairly reasonable time commitment.
Otherwise you are going to sit around watching your buffs tick off while you wait for blues wearing alts. Not that I did this for four hours last night to get from Shade through Prince...
ninjasuperspy Jun 13th 2008 11:26AM
I can't say enough good about Jame's Levelling guides. They take you all over the place, you do a good variety of quests, and it really feels like you see the world. I did one 70 by the old "Go into town, quest until there aren't any !s left and move on" method and it felt so very compartmentalized. For some reason this second trip is feeling so much better flying all over the place.
Culhag Jun 13th 2008 11:59AM
I've read a bit of Jame's levelling guide, and honestly it doesn't sound fun to me, to refer constantly to a guide to determine where to go. I prefer to go wherever I feel like, to explore different zones with my different toons.
I don't want to play like a scripted bot.
jbodar Jun 13th 2008 3:14PM
@Culhag
You wouldn't need a guide to "have fun" and if you did, well then you've got other issues there. The guide is for the most efficient leveling so you can hit 70 ASAP. After several trips through, the leveling content gets a bit stale.
ninjasuperspy Jun 13th 2008 4:06PM
@Culhag: Geez man, you use WoWHead right? Jame doesn't do anything other than say "Get these three quests before going to the other end of Feralas, you'll thank me for not making you walk there twice" or "For God's sake, get out of STV for a while. It'll save you burnout." As I said, I honestly spent time in places I never went as Alliance. The extended sessions in Aszhara let me see part of the game that I really hope is the next target for a Dustwallow-esque makeover. The place is beautiful, and a source of some of the best views in the game.
All that said, I don't spend the whole gaming session staring at a sheet of A4 so fun just kind of happens. With the quests more streamlined by the guide I get twice as much (probably more than that) done and spend less time wandering about. I'd hazard a guess to say that I actually have MORE fun with tighter levelling circles than I would either randomly questing until I clear a zone or *shudder* grinding.
Henki Jun 13th 2008 11:27AM
Yes you can, because I am doing it! I play two nights a week (maybe another 2-4 hours total the rest of the week), and I'm (off)tanking in BT / Hyjal at the moment. I have a GF, a kid and a 40h. job also btw. The key is easy, get a class that is wanted, get a good guild that has a lot of members that is raiding 3 (maybe 4) nights a week and on your playing nights, show up for raids and stay as a back up until you get to prove to them you can contribute. I suggest playing a Feral Druid because they are usefull in any raids as DPS, wanted as Tank and don't need constant respec to do both! You will have to get 2 sets of gears, but hopefully while tanking instances you'll get drops for both and you'll be able to fill gear gaps by doing PvP when you'll play "solo" (and doing it fairly efficiently). And I also think you should start from scratch on a PvE realm - your play time will be precious, you will not want it to be ruined by gankers. Or you can make a Healer / Balance Druid too if you prefer.
Daimon Jun 13th 2008 11:35AM
well, if you had to DELETE your toons to prevent playing for addiction, then you already are addicted; but after doing that you keep returning and...3 times!!! you should seek aid because thats not normal. What ppl mostly do is taking long off periods and things like that. And I have a 40h/week job, RL, gf and still can raid. 3 days a week w a consistent guild is enough to farm 1-2 instances weekly.
Manatank Jun 13th 2008 12:47PM
I'd have to agree. This guys should not be playing WoW. HE can't PvE casually. Obviously many people can.
Aaron Jun 13th 2008 1:12PM
In my opinion, I don't think it would be fair to say "Hey don't play WoW anymore you're obviously addicted." To me it looks like he enjoys playing the game but seems a bit lost on the importance of setting a schedule and has tried to quit cold turkey a few times. "Oh my, setting a schedule just to have fun!" but ...yes, its a necessary evil if you ever want to go anywhere in PvE. Think of it like getting together with your friends to watch the game. Somebody brings chips. Some bring the beer. You know whose house your going to and when it starts. You watch the game and its enjoyable. Set plans like that within WoW and stick to them and at least from my regards...you won't be dissapointed.
BiggusGeekus Jun 14th 2008 6:13AM
I agree. This game isn't for everyone and if he has to go to such extreme measures to stay casual then he should stop playing.
That said....
1) Jame's guides are great. I can't say enough good things about them.
2) Two hours is NOT realistic for most raids. Yes, if your guild has its act together a two or three hour raid is well within the realm of possibility. Simple human dynamics prevents this in most cases and you're generally looking at 4 hours. When most people talk about the time it takes to do a raid they don't count from time logging in to time logging off. They count from the scheduled time of the raid start to the time when everyone hearths out. People with real life demands know that the actual time for a raid is not simply time spent raiding.
Just my two cents.
biglou Jun 13th 2008 11:40AM
I raid 2-3 times a week but when I find that PvE'ing begins to dominate my life or get boring, I step back, stop raiding, and do some retro raiding. Ill see if I can solo ZF or ST or something. Or me and a buddy will hit one of the 60 instances for fun (plus Pre BC mats are worth a lot of $$$ atm...righteous orbs, herbs, and etc). I can quit whenever I want and it gives me an opportunity to get some better gear for my alts. When that gets boring Ill go get some honor in BG's.
Also, when I really dont want to raid or be bothered with invites, I have an alt that none of my guildies/raiders/friends/arena teams know about. Then I can play at my leisure w/o having to get sucked into/guilted into playing longer than I have to.
npm Jun 13th 2008 2:18PM
Raiding doesn't have to be so long. We usually have 3 hour raids, sometimes less, sometimes longer but never over 4 hours at the extreme most.
Tinious Jun 13th 2008 11:55AM
I think it depends on what you're into. I have a job, wife and 2 year old and have time for about 10h a week. I progress much slower than my peers who are single, but I am still progressing. One of my peers started a new char and is keeping her at the same level as mine so we can party up, and that's worked out pretty cool too.
When I only have a 15 minute chunk of time, I'll AH, fish or noodle around town. It's amazing how many little things there are to do in the cities if you only have short time bursts.
Also, don't be afraid to /camp in the middle of nowhere. I definitely love my rest bonus, but if I know I'm only going to get three or four 15 minute chunks over the day to play, I'll happily /camp in the wilderness mid-quest.
Saphia Jun 13th 2008 12:05PM
When you get up to 70, you might also want to think about which instances you'd want to do. My favorite instance is Black Morass in caverns of time. I've done that a few times where it's taken 26 minutes to get through the entire thing. You have to have done Old Hillsbrad first, but that is also a very easy and fairly quick instance. I've been in a group of three 70s who were able to get through the first boss with no problem. We only stopped because we hit the reputation goal we were needing. A group of 5 can definitely finish easily and quickly.
Rob Jun 13th 2008 12:39PM
I was in the same boat. This week I instituted parental controls and a rigorous WoW schedule. Now it's a hard limit of 15 hours a week. There is much wailing by my friends and family, but they will eventually figure out that I need to prioritize my life. My thoughts are a) have goals b) have schedules c) stick to them. My goals are for example getting the netherdrake mount. I'm about 7 days of dailies away from getting it. Getting Champion of Naaru. 2 heroics and mag away. Seeing Illidan. 6 bosses away. It doesn't matter what your goals are, just that you have them. I find the game alot more fun when it's goal driven.
But don't get into the rut of "i play WoW because my RL sucks and i'm bored" or "I just need this next thing and then I can stop". No, not true. The game will always be there. It doesn't care if you stop playing for a year or not. Your RL definately won't wait while you down Illidan. I think almost all people who play WoW are addicted to some degree, I know I am. Its very hard to break away if all your friends and family play WoW. Develop some more RL friendships and start doing stuff in life. I haven't seen a movie with my wife in a long time (partially bc we are busy people, partially bc we are WoW addicts), we'll do it this weekend. Get out and smell the roses.
Anyway...Time commitment. Life after 70 isn't for everyone. I love it, there is alot to do, alot of goal driven things (no longer 'just one more level'). And it's very comparmentalized. BGs are only half an hour or so. Instances can be done in 1-2 hours. However it is a struggle to find a group of people willing to aid in your journey. You really need to find a guild who will be there for you when you are ready to run the heroics and Kara. (which can be done in 1-2 hours and 3 hours respectively, but thats if you are overgeared). If you are undergeared expect to spend your raiding time trying to clear kara. My old guild spent 20 hours a week in kara because they were bad at time management and 'casual' (didn't know bosses, didn't have proper enchants/consumables, etc).
Honestly after a full 9 months of raiding, it's not the end-all be-all. Sure its alot of fun, but don't think that you are missing so much by never going into Kara. That said, since attunement is lifted, it really wouldn't take much to find a guild who does kara often and step into it, just to experience it. Btw my BT raiding guild raids 3x a week, 2x progression 1x on SSC/TK, and usually people will self-organize ZA or kara clears once a week. So its very doable to get into a raiding guild without the major time commitment, but I must say all of us have probably spent 20 days or more /played at 70, getting the gear to get to this point. Your money may vary, if you are in a BT guild and just hit 70 and they need you, you can gear up pretty quickly, but that great badge gear takes a very long time to acquire.
Mike Jun 13th 2008 12:41PM
I think you are looking at this the wrong way.
If you are not playing, are you "getting anywhere"? No. So, why is it important to "get anywhere" while playing?. It isn't. It's about playing and having fun. As long as you are having fun then that's it, no need to worry about anything else.
It's the trip that matters, not the destination.
Lab Monkey Jun 13th 2008 12:45PM
I redefine "casual raiding". One night every second week. It can be done.
Juan Carlos Jun 13th 2008 1:45PM
the key is to find a group of like minded individuals. I used to raid four to five nights a week. Most of us got burned out and ended up I my doing 10 man content two nigh a week for no more than three hours.
It takes a bit of self discipline but casual raiding can be done, if that can be done then casual PVE is totally doable.
Toci lvl 70 shaman, Muradin
I have a life, it is WoW Jun 13th 2008 2:13PM
Gotta wonder why WoW is not considered a life. You're breathing, and your enjoy the game, so why could it not be considered a part of your life as much as your job or going on bike rides.