Ask WoW Insider: /roll abuse?
by Mark Crump 
Jun 16th 2008 at 9:00AM
Hey WoW Insider,
This week I have a question about rolling, as in /roll, and the proper use of it. I was recently on a run of Zul'Farrak with my Shaman, a guildmate Fury Warrior, a Healadin, and a Tankadin. The 2 *adins were dating or some such, I'm not sure but it's important to the story. The run had been going really well, and everyone was being very polite on loot drops. Whenever a Blue item would drop everyone would pass and we would discuss it. This is generally not a practice I approve of (The Need and Greed buttons are there for a reason, blizzard was nice enough to provide them) but that was the group's consensus so I kept my mouth shut and did it.
The problem comes in when the Big Bad Pauldrons dropped. Everyone passed and the three platewearers /roll'd despite the fact that they aren't really useful for the Healdin. The Tankadin lost the roll with a 34, the fury warrior came in second, and the Healadin won. After we all /cheer at him for winning them he says "I'm going to give them to the Tankadin" Now I felt like this was wrong, as it was essentially giving the Tankadin 2 /rolls against the warrior but because the run had gone so good and drama free I didn't speak against it. At the end of the night the Warrior mentioned to me that he felt it wasn't right.
This, then, is the question: If you win the /roll is the item yours to do with as you please? It was BOP so certainly he couldn't have picked it up and traded it to her, but was what he did right? We allowed it with no objection and as such we lost grounds to complain now, but for future reference what is the correct way to proceed?
Thanks in Advance,
Urdunai of Earthen Ring
Urdunai of Earthen Ring
Guess the dating bit was more important to the story than you thought, eh?
The short version is: if you win whatever strange method of /roll protocol a given group uses, can you do what you want with it? Yep.
I've seen what happened here a few times, but it's not very common. I'm not a big fan of it for the reasons you mentioned. I'm torn between, "if she couldn't use it, the healadin should not have had rolled in the first place," and "well, I guess giving it to her boyfriend is better than vendoring it."
We can debate the overall fairness of what happened -- I agree for instances the need/greed dice should be used (raids are a another story) -- but we'll get into clauses and conditions that end up surrounding a Middle East peace treaty in a hurry.
As to your secondary question: if there's a loot policy you don't like, speak up on the first occurrence, otherwise you pretty much lose your right to complain on the rest of the run.
How about you guys? Do you see this happen often and how can he avoid running into this?
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Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Ask WoW Insider
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Buckshot Jun 16th 2008 9:07AM
You win the roll, do with it what you will.
"Break a deal, spin the wheel"
Kheldul Jun 16th 2008 9:28AM
Yeah, if he was "passing" the person next in line should have gotten it; the fury warrior.
szander Jun 16th 2008 9:16AM
From now on, I'll roll need on everything and decide who gets the loot.
Doesn't work.
Agile Jun 16th 2008 9:18AM
How can you be torn between whether the healadin should roll in the first place?
There should be no way at all that the healadin should be able to roll. If she rolled nonetheless, then it should go directly to second highest. (Ignoring the roll)
Ichthus Jun 16th 2008 12:19PM
Agreed with Agile. Only primary spec should be rolling in the first place. If they don't want it, then off-spec then gets a roll. Being as the Healadin was off-spec, she shouldn't have rolled and this would have just been a showdown between the tanadin and the warrior.
The fact a healadin wears plate doesn't mean that they should roll on all plate. I have a friend who plays a healadin that when first raiding wore cloth, leather, and mail, because it gave the stats she needed and there is no reason for her to worry about the actual 'armor' stat. She's now primarily in plate, but that's due to getting healing plate drops and nabbing things off-spec if the primary specs didn't want them.
FB Jun 16th 2008 1:04PM
I gotta agree that the Healadin should have bowed out ... you gotta equip if you are gonna roll on a covetted BoP. If you are not equipping, you are not rolling.
Lori Jun 16th 2008 1:12PM
Also agree with Agile. Only roll on items you personally need, period unless no one needs the item. Makes everything else moot.
tangent Jun 16th 2008 2:42PM
I had a similar situation last night in a kara badge run. Illhoof dropped the 83dps mace, I (rogue) and a arms warr rolled on it. I won the roll, but the party leader (master looter) said I could not have it because I already won something earlier (poison vial from romulo) So he just handed it off to the warrior. Not only did I fair and square win the roll, I could actually use the item. What does a Arms warr need with a 1h mace? Off spec or not for me, I still could use it more then him.
He then had the nerve to tell me "hey dumb ass, if you have ever been in a pug before you know that, thats the rules. Once you win a piece of gear, you cant roll on anything else, ask anyone ever."
If you are on Crushridge horde, do not group with Bucz from the landed gentry. : )
Carigon Jun 16th 2008 9:12AM
Personally, I think you should only be able to roll on things you actually need. If the healadin won, then they should take it, period. I have a girlfriend that I introduced to the game, and i sure as hell do everything i can to help her out, but there is such a thing as consideration for other players.
The only situation where i believe this to be ok is if it is explicitly stated at the beginning of the run that those are the rules... then, at least, you have the option of opting out of the unfair situation before it begins.
Kylljoy Jun 16th 2008 9:16AM
As sketchy as it sounds, for what they did, you win the roll, you do what you please with the item. Though in the future, if your going to run like that, make it so there are ground rules on what you can role on ie, huge +stam str, no int, HEALADINS cant role (nothing against paladins, I have 2 of differing levels)
jbodar Jun 16th 2008 2:32PM
The healadin shouldn't have even rolled in the first place, when there were people who did Need the item. Here's a ground rule: use common sense and consideration, and only roll Need for upgrades for YOUR toon, for your spec, Greed for off-spec. How hard is that? Is not being a douche that hard? People like this are what is wrong with PUGs.
Healovertime Jun 16th 2008 9:22AM
In my opinion whoever wins the roll should be able to do what they want with the item but in this case the healadin should'nt have rolled at all.
Back in my old uild if somebody was nice enough to give a piece to somebody who needed it more they would get bonus dkp for being a team player.
Ikarus Jun 16th 2008 12:57PM
Why would you roll if you didn't "need" the item? why even make the argument that whoever rolls should be able to do what they want with it. If you roll just to shard it, you didn't need it and shouldn't have rolled. If you rolled to give it to someone else, again, you didn't need it and shouldn't have rolled. The healadin should not have rolled. all the groups ive run with ( I have 3 70's) say primary spec takes precedence.
Bumwaller Jun 16th 2008 9:21AM
Hmm - I would think this would be acceptable. Would it have been for the Healadin to have kept it for an off-spec set? It would seem then that all the plate wearers have a "right" to /roll on the shoulders and then do what they wish after they win. But as stated above, using the need/greed buttons eliminates that possibility.
Joseph Jun 16th 2008 9:24AM
I DON'T think that this is acceptable, and would have chimed in immediately had I been on that run. Loot should always go need over greed, and the holy Paladin rolling at all would not have flown if I were in the group. Now, if the "healadin" was actually a ret Paladin healing (not uncommon in low level instances) than that changes the situation entirely.
Naix Jun 16th 2008 9:30AM
You can greed if it's an off spec.
Fizzed Jun 16th 2008 9:33AM
Crap like this is why Blizz put the roll dice in the game to begin with. Roll Need if you need it, greed if you don't. You know what items you need and what items are of no use to you. If someone doesn't want to use that system, there is probably a good reason why. Case in point, the pallies in this article.
This kind of crap is one of many reasons why so many folks don't do PUGs anymore...though I understand that can be difficult to avoid while leveling. In the future, if someone wants to use their half-baked loot system, just say no.
Finnicks Jun 16th 2008 5:28PM
Well Fizzed... the reason people make the "pass on BoP rule, then /roll" rule is that it adds an extra measure of control to keep retards from rolling Need on something they can't use or that isn't an upgrade for them (or is offspec when someone else needs it more).
Frankly, the timer on the need/greed thing is too short to allow any kind of serious consideration and deliberation on who can and can't roll.
So we pass on BoP, look at the item, decide who's eligible to roll based on class/spec/role, and then allow need rolls first (for gear benefiting your current primary role in the group), for greed rolls (for gear benefiting an offspec or role outside your current one), for DE rolls (if an enchanter is around), and then for money rolls (to vendor it).
Note that my guild doesn't consider talent spec when deciding eligibility for rolls. It considers what you're actually doing in the group. If you're a ret paladin healing for the run, and another ret paladin is along DPSing the run, then you don't get first dibs on DPS gear. The other ret paladin gets first dibs! Although this typically dries up and becomes a nonissue at endgame when it's almost impossible to fill a role outside your spec.
Anyway, we solve the whole need/greed/ninja issue by switching to Master Looter before bossfights.
Descentia Jun 16th 2008 9:29AM
People keep commenting with "if you win the roll... if you win the roll... if you win the roll..." Yes, that's true. But the fact of the matter still stands: the healer should have never rolled in the first place. Urdunai is right: The tankadin got two rolls against the warrior's one, via his "buddy". Szander's post sums it up nicely.
Jessierockeron Jun 16th 2008 11:13PM
I agree, it's like the healadin only rolled to increase the tankadin's chances.