Officers' Quarters: When to give up
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.If you were reading WoW Insider over the weekend, you might have noticed a couple of rather depressing posts. Adam talked about when you should make the personal decision to stop raiding. Then Jennie talked about the reasons why raiding guilds break up. I might as well continue the trend, but at least I have the excuse of a reader's e-mail. Last week I addressed the problems that small guilds will face in the coming months. This week, by request, I'm going to look at larger, hardcore guilds. And I'll also examine a nasty stereotype in the community that continues to proliferate.
I am in this guild for the past 2 years of my WOW experience. This is my first guild, and my only guild so far. The atmosphere was friendly when I first joined it to join my real life schoolmates, hoping to down boss and experience content together. But a couple of drama and event took place, and my friends all quit the game which they felt was taking too much of their time. The original management when I joined all left the game due to other real life commitments and burnouts from over-WOW-ed.
So with a twist of fate I took over the role of Guildmaster. The other veterans in the guild has other reasons that forbid them from taking the helm. And so I begun my quest to reform the dying guild in the dying server. We are a guild with predominantly Asian players, but we welcome western players too. But apparently playing in a US server meant you always have to being abused at for being Asian. Some people just cannot differentiate Chinese Farmer and general normal Asian players. And so I have been working for the past 6 months trying to recruit new blood into the guild and keeping the raiders around. We finally managed to down Rage Winterchill only in the past 2 weeks, after the top end guild in our server's endless poaching of our raiders to warm their bench . . . And a few other core raiders announcing their quitting of the game soon.
And now I feel I don't enjoy WOW the same anymore. It's no longer the same for me.
Leadership role in WOW really killed my experience. I have to yell at people for mistakes causing wipes. I have to monitor and troubleshoot all the problems in raid and as well in guild. I also have to ensure that I perform to the top to encourage the rest to perform as well. This is just not the kind of things I used to be able to handle. But I have to now, by hook or by crook.
The other problem is that my guild members seems to be indifferent to my effort. I would be online all my free time after work just to check out strategies and videos on downing bosses. But the guild forum where I posted my instructions just remains a deadtown. This coupled with the fact that a few other newer guild managed to out-progressed us led to an outflow of serious raiders, and added to my woes.
The scenario now is this. I still wish to experience newer content. I want to see Illidan downed. I want to kill Kil'jaeden. But obviously my guild is holding me back, or it could be because I cannot lead it to higher level (my management sucks?). The top guild in this server is looking for a class I am playing now. Should I just jump ship and leave this guild? Or should I just stick with it and ignore the new content?
(The above might sound incoherent to you, I admit I am just typing what went into my mind at that moment while I was typing. Sorry for the poor structure)
Thank you very much.
M
M, your story is pretty much living proof of Jennie's description.
This summer might be the toughest time that raiding guilds in WoW have ever faced. With no new content close at hand, and many PvE'ers wondering why they should bother raiding when their gear will be obsolete with the new expansion, the pool of available players, especially for high-end raiding, is perhaps the smallest it's been in two years. The end result is that guilds have to cannibalize each other to get seasoned recruits. If you're not the type of person who poaches members from other communities, and your guild isn't progressing as quickly as its members expect, you could be left with a depleted membership sooner than you thought possible. It's ugly right now, and unfortunately it's not going to change anytime soon.
M, your experience of going from member to leader and then to a burned-out, stressed-out wreck is all too common these days. The sad reality is that it's just too easy for most members to quit the game, or stop raiding, or just twiddle their thumbs waiting for an officer to fix everything, rather than step up and try to make a difference. Or, as you've seen, they leave for greener pastures.
What you have to remember is that one person can't do it all. I highly recommend that guild leaders don't lead raids and vice versa, as you've done. Leading a guild has an enormous set of inherent difficulties and stresses. Leading a raid is no different. Combining those roles is a guaranteed recipe to burn yourself out. If you don't get more support from your other officers and members, I won't blame you for throwing in the towel.
Right now they are all leaving you hanging or skipping off to another guild. The problem you face is that you don't know exactly why. You're speculating about it in your e-mail, but have you tried asking your members what they think the problems are and what you can all do to fix them?
You're in a desperate situation, and I'm sure many guilds out there have found themselves in the same place. At such times, you have to energize your membership to all pitch in and help keep the guild afloat. Get them excited about making one last push to achieve your goals before the expansion hits. Ask everyone to become a recruiting officer for a few weeks. Get them out on the "streets" trying to find unguilded raiders who are looking to see the content they haven't conquered yet, like you and your members want to do. Or have them look for other guilds to make an alliance with.
Killing an endgame boss requires sophisticated coordination and teamwork. Every single person in the raid has to do their utmost to ensure the raid survives and succeeds. So why then, when it comes to making sure the guild itself survives, do some players become so apathetic? Teamwork shouldn't end when everyone ports out at the end of the night.
If your members won't help you, if they continue to be indifferent toward the guild, then what's the point of pouring your heart and soul into it? If the members have given up, then it's time for you to give up, too.
There's nothing honorable about quitting your guild just because you want to see all the game's content. That makes you no better than all the other members who have already jumped ship.
Quitting because the guild has quit on you, on the other hand, is not only valid, but necessary for your mental health and enjoyment of the game. So I implore all those members out there: Recognize that it's a tough time for raiding guilds and do your best to help your officers that have sacrificed their time and energy for the guild over the past weeks, months, and years. In essence, help them to help you.
I'd also like to touch on the discrimination against Asian players that M writes about. I recognize that there's very little I can do about it. People are going to be the way they are, and on the Internet they're usually even worse. (We all know that famous equation from Penny Arcade that I won't even bother linking to. Everybody has seen it by now.)
But I hope that, by reading about M's situation, we can all be more aware that players like that are out there. Like everyone else, they're just trying to have fun. It's easy to make assumptions about someone because of where they're from, and it's just as easy to be completely wrong about them.
Thus ends my preachiest column ever.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
JT Jun 16th 2008 11:17AM
So strange... I had to do a triple check to make sure I didn't write that email myself. Apart from the ethnic discrimination, my situation is EXACTLY the same. A long-running guild I'm in was falling apart, officers getting fed up and leaving over drama, others leaving because they're burnt out, and finally, because I'm the only hopeful and enthusiastic member left, I was handed GM position. Now I'm doing all I can to keep the guild afloat, rebuild our numbers, and keep the atmosphere positive. But all too often I'm seeing that my efforts are being ignored.
I'm not done trying yet, but just so you know, M, I feel your pain buddy.
sotallytober Jun 16th 2008 4:11PM
I agree, I too was doing a double take because my guild, that I started myself from nearly nothing and have dumped untold hours and dollars (hosting, vent, etc) into, is in the process of self-destructing. I logged in on Saturday morning to find that 10-15 people had left without saying anything (the worst part in my mind) leaving us with just enough to reliably run 10 mans. Others have slowly trickled away and now I am left with 7 or so members loyal enough to stick it out for now. Every time I think about it I start to feel very disappointed...I guess the heartless bastard inside me is comforted by the 20+ epic gems, dozens of hearts, 2 full tabs of consumables still left in the bank.
Now I am on the fence about whether to try and join another guild or just get as many 70's before Wrath as I can. I really wanted to down KJ but it might not be worth it anymore.
sotallytober Jun 16th 2008 4:12PM
Also, this happened on Illidan, one of the largest pop. servers in the US.
Dan Jun 16th 2008 11:25AM
That Chinese image you're using - is that a Rickroll in Engrish?
Dan Jun 16th 2008 11:27AM
Err *Japanese, didn't notice the Hiragana.
Taeous Jun 16th 2008 11:23AM
Speaking as someone who used to be part of "management" in a raiding guild ran by myself and several other real life friends, trying to recruit solid raiders on a dying server is nearly impossible. We all eventually ended up jumping ship and group-transferring into a very nice guild on a comfortably populated server with a solid player-base. We went from barely being able to down Lurker and Void Reaver on our old server to killing every boss from there on up through Illidan. What's better is we joined this guild just as they were starting on Kael'thalas, so we got to take part in guild-first kills all through MH and BT.
One of the main ways we attract good raiders is by cross-server transfers. Keep in mind, no one is going to want to transfer to a dead server. My advice to the author of the letter is to go guild/server shopping. Figure out who else in the guild would want to move with you and who are competent raiders and just transfer.
Rob Jun 16th 2008 4:31PM
Agreed, my old server was a complete backwater for raid progress. Fun server, great people, but you wont find many serious T5/T6 guilds there. So i made the difficult decision of moving to another server and things have been great. From endless wiping in Kara to in two-three months a third of the way through BT. Along the way I discovered raiding can be enjoyable and not too hard core, and raiding with a focused, determined guild makes all the diference in the world. And it's not really about the loot at that level (imo).
Zali Jun 16th 2008 11:28AM
Ummm... what famous equation?
Badger Jun 16th 2008 11:38AM
John Gabriel's "Internet Fuckwad Theory"
http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/archives/pictures/greater_internet_fuckwad_theory.jpg
Forgive the rather misguided link, but apparently the network admins at my office consider Penny Arcade to be "inappropriate content."
Zali Jun 16th 2008 11:43AM
Ah yes.
Also why I don't read Penny Arcade. Admins here feel the same way about it.
andy Jun 16th 2008 11:47AM
Speaking as an Asian-American, and for the reasons not specifically related to race in the article above (reasons such as the need for a raiding team to be able to work together and support each other), I'd suggest you boot every racist jerk from the guild. It might put you in a worse spot as far as available bodies for a raid, but tell you what, someone who can't be counted on to treat you with respect regardless of your ethnicity (a) shouldn't be counted on to be a solid supporting member of any team and (b) doesn't deserve the benefits of the work and effort you have obviously put into running the guild. In my opinion, for recruiting and retention purposes, it's better to have a small group of solid, friendly, and helpful people than to have a large, immature, hateful group of jerks.
Cailleach Jun 16th 2008 12:12PM
Honey, I don't have any advice about your guild situation, but..
Your server should be SPANKED! I won't say there's no stupid remarks about Chinese farmers on Eonar, but they are few enough to be remarkable when they happen. My GM is Asian, some of our best players and most loved friends are, and you'd never know unless you go hunt down our IRL pics online. In fact, when a bunch of us met up in San Diego this last spring, only ONE of the bunch even remotely resembled my mental image. We're all different types, genders, and races, but we're all equals in Azeroth.
Geez, I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for you to have to put up with that kind of abuse, but please know it's not that way everywhere. At least I can remind you that the bigots on your server are aberrant, not YOU.
/hug
Dwuffy Jun 16th 2008 12:46PM
I just left a 5/5 MH, 3/9 BT guild that I was an officer in last week (I know, months behind).
I still want to raid.
I still like (most of) the people in the guild.
I just couldn't personally see a fix for all the problems except gdisbanding and letting the "hardcore" go to other guilds without guilt and the "casuals" rebuild without all of the pressure to put more time and effort into a game than they really wanted to. The other officers seemed to think it was salvageable. The guild probably is salvageable, I just knew that if it was going to happen, they needed someone other than me there with cheerleading pom-poms.
As someone else stated in one of the other links...I just can't go through the process of gearing up another round (there's been sooooo many rounds already) of recruits. I have no problem running SSC and TK again, don't get me wrong. I'm one of those odd people who just enjoys raiding, whether it's something new or something I've done 30 times already.
I just don't want to deal with the drama of people being short-tempered or downright hostile about doing "old" content. The people who do not want to do SSC again, but go because they "have" to. "OMG, did we just wipe on Lurker, how STUPID do you have to be to not duck your head under water during spouts!!!". Umm.."recruitJoe" has never done this fight, everyone mucks up the first time. Ok, almost everyone. I'm sure there are leet raiders out there that have never once missed a spout. They generally aren't found in "months behind" raiding guilds though.
Or the flip side of the coin...waiting for that 25th person to login, who never does. I want to raid, not fly circles around Shattrath for an hour.
So, for now I'm guildless and just relaxing. Catching up with IRL things I've put off and waiting for that one guild I have a lot of friends in to have a spot open for my raider.
Lori Jun 16th 2008 12:54PM
Judging from the tone of M's letter, I would suggest he leave his guild and find another where he is just another raider. He doesn't come accross as GM material mostly because of attitude. Yelling at people in the group is usually counter productive. Besides, HE says his "management sucks".
In the new guild, trying very hard to type proper english and generally fit in will go a long way to avoid discrimination.
As for respect, it is something that is earned. Expecting or demading it only means you get less of it.
Bentwhisker Jun 16th 2008 5:01PM
So you're assuming he's culpable for the racism of others, due to the fact (another assumption) that he's not doing what he can to "type proper english" and "generally fit in"?
You're ridiculous. Spoken like a true idiot.
pip Jun 16th 2008 7:26PM
"...doesn't come accross..."
"Expecting or demading..."
Jeez Lori - try and type proper english why don't you? You're just begging for discrimination....
here is a thought Jun 16th 2008 1:03PM
don't see the term mentioned that much here in WoWin but what servers fall under the classification "dead"? I will say that having started a guild just this past March recruiting on my server is nearly impossible. We get either alts that have low interest for the player or kids that need a ton of hand holding.
Theserene Jun 16th 2008 1:15PM
Agree on the not trying to lead raids and the guild.
I would ask what kind of recruitment he is doing too - looking for some seasoned players to take on some officer duties would also be a good idea.
I would add this though - never make a longterm decision on a guild's future based on the summertime period prior to an expansion. It is not indicative of future events to judge based on a time when lots of people have other stuff to be doing and a lot of it away from a computer monitor.
darian Jun 16th 2008 2:12PM
The thought of trying to get guild members excited is one that invokes all sorts of negative thoughts for me, possibly because I've been working at that unsuccessfully for months.
You've given incentives to be active, you've stepped up as an example, you've encouraged and walked side by side with your members, you've set up special events, you've been coolheaded and caring during raids and more. In the end, you and a select few are the only people actively trying anymore.
There comes a point where you've done everything except cast yourself into the fires of the Molten Core as a virgin sacrifice to the Old Gods.
When you reach that point, you either need to spell it out to your guild, leave, or resign yourself to fate.
uncaringbear Jun 16th 2008 6:42PM
The comment about Asian players is too true, unfortunately. It would be folly to ever reveal or admit ingame that you're an Asian WoW player, or even in WoWinsider comments. Unless you have god-like levels of tolerance, be prepared to endure endless streams of ignorant and thoughtless remarks from racist jerks. When was the last time you saw a WoWinsider article that mentioned anything about Asian players, and wasn't followed by idiotic comments about gold farmers?