Understanding the Cheat Death nerf
As regular forumgoers may have noted, there's been a lot of antipathy toward rogues in PVP lately. Most of this is based on the newfound popularity of the seventh-tier subtlety talent Cheat Death, which was buffed to mega-awesome proportions. Here's the old Cheat Death:- You have a 10/20/30 percent chance to survive any damaging attack that would otherwise kill you.
- You have a 33/66/100% chance to completely avoid any damaging attack that would otherwise kill you and reduce all damage taken by 90% for 3 sec. This effect cannot occur more than once per minute.
- Killing blows are no longer 100% absorbed. If the Rogue is below 10% health, the killing blow is still completely absorbed; if the Rogue is over 10% health, enough damage will be absorbed to reduce the Rogue's health down to 10%. For the following 3 seconds, damage is not always reduced by 90%; it is now reduced by a maximum of 90%, depending on how much resilience the Rogue has. The damage reduction will be four times the damage reduction resilience causes against critical strikes.
The big benefactors from this are ... mostly anyone fighting a rogue. Burst damage classes like mages will benefit from being able to take the rogue down to 10% with their big spells, and sustained damage or DOT classes will be able to gnaw away at that remaining health if the rogue isn't resilience capped. This will also ease some of the complaining about Cheat Death-enabled rogues getting healed back to full during the proc, or Cloak of Shadowing away and vanishing before starting an inescapable stun lock.
The major losers here are leveling rogues and rogues who PvP in high-damage PvE gear. If you don't have much or any resilience on your gear, that 90% damage reduction is going to get pretty low, pretty fast. Rogues will have to start stacking resilience like everyone else, even though it will hurt their damage output. Time to put away that 4/8 Tier 6 and Warglaives ...
It's tough to gauge what the full reaction to these changes will be from the wider rogue community. Community Managers have stepped into the rogue forums to remove gloating posts by warriors and mages. So far, most rogues seem to have realized long ago that a change was on its way and have come to terms with it.
What do you think about this change?
Filed under: Rogue, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, News items
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
equin Jun 19th 2008 12:07AM
Ice block removes 100% all dot's and what not. Cheat death we still take a beating. I say drop our cheat death and give us the mage's ice block.
dan Jun 19th 2008 1:07AM
It's called cloak of shadows. look into it.
onetrueping Jun 19th 2008 5:23AM
CoS doesn't prevent physical blows, look into it.
Roxton Jun 19th 2008 7:40AM
Cloak of Shadows, also known as Cloak of Balance and Cloak of Skill, because it has nothing to do with either. Let's compare it to Ice Block:
CoS has a 1min cooldown. IB has a 5 min cooldown.
CoS enables you to move. IB immobilises you.
CoS is un-dispellable (as far as I know - I may be wrong). IB can be dispelled.
The only benefit of IB over CoS is that it makes you immune to all damage for its duration. Using IB as a mage can actually cause you to loose the fight - it gives melee classes a chance to get up close, gives rogues a chance to stealth and gives ranged classes a chance to get to wherever they want, as well as giving healers a chance to heal. With CoS you can stay on the offensive, knowing full well that there is nothing a caster can do to you. It's not meant to be an anti-melee tool - rogues have enough of those.
When mages can wear something other than cloth, have more HP than Hogger and can become immune to all spells every 60 seconds, as well as having the ability to absorb killing blows, then you can whine about IB.
onetrueping Jun 19th 2008 9:33AM
CoS also only really cleanses effectively, since spells still can, and will, get through, and you can't use it while feared. Using it effectively is a matter of timing.
Azzur Jun 19th 2008 12:09AM
This proves that the talent was overpowered when many rogues were already braced for and accepting of the changes
Reinard Jun 19th 2008 12:11AM
The resilience change REALLY pisses me off =\ It's completely unnecessary and means that rogues trying to PVP to GET good resil gear are absolutely fucked.
burger king Jun 19th 2008 1:15AM
as a Rogue from the get go of wow, this is a good change, wanna pvp? wear pvp gear. boo hoo i dont have any.. 95g at lvl 70 should get you started. but i cant beat full season 3 people... yeah you aint raiding illidain either so deal with it/
cdb2000 Jun 19th 2008 4:39PM
@Reinard
Kind of like every other class?
buenoexcellente Jun 19th 2008 12:40AM
This is long overdue, but its just a bone thrown to the people complaining. The rogues that matter are going to have S4 weapons soon, which are pretty much warglaives anyway, only without the proc, and with (drumroll please) resilience.
They are still stupidly overpowered vs pretty much anybody not wearing plate.
Apoc Jun 19th 2008 12:40AM
I play both a 70 rogue and a 70 lock, and I must say I am pleased with this change. I think it's more balanced, and makes us depend more on our gear to survive, just like everybody else. It will be nice to know my dots actually have a chance in hell of killing the rogue that just blew his cloak and procced cheat death. This is a welcome change. Rogues SHOULD have to pvp for pvp gear, and go through the same hell everyone else does of grinding out their welfare epics to get started. Bravo, Blizz. This could be just the appropriate nerf that rogues needed. Now if only stuns could get diminished returns so a pair of rogues can't stunlock forever... but that's another debate altogether...
jared Jun 19th 2008 12:28PM
Stuns are on diminished returns, don't know where you got the idea that they aren't.
Lemon Jun 19th 2008 12:54AM
from the standpoint of a dagger rogue (feel free to flame and you will flame...*shakes fist*) this is awesome. I was getting pretty tried of trying to outright gank other nubly rogues (and other good rogues) only to hear the cheat death sound and see they still have 45% health.
It just makes sense really. If you are gunna die (which if a ambush takes 45% or more of your life it's going to end pretty quick after your fun little cheat death proc) you should just effing die! don't be a poor loser and stick around for another 3-6 secs.
In arenas this is gunna be life changing! usually I have to stop backstabbing when a fellow rogue is about to die. I don't wanna end up backstabbing him for 2.5k and having the cheat death proc. 10% health of even the craziest geared rogue is gunna still only be like 1.2k which is way better than having him running around with 2.5k health left.
Plus another great thing is the resil requirement...I mean if they want cheat death to absorb more they'll have to socket some resil gems or trade in their glyph of ferocity for the glad glyph. I have a mix of s1 and s3 gear atm and even with the epic trinket i'm still around 20 resil away from 443. so agian...woot.
now that is not so op I wonder if any hemo rogues will spec away from it?...hmmm...no...no they won't. they love it so much (i hear CHEAT DEATH FTW!!!111 like every other second) they're all gunna keep it which is good for me.
and btw...don't nerf prep blizz...u gave frost mages cold snap for gods sake and that's the exact same thing!
buenoexcellente Jun 19th 2008 1:20AM
Mages can't keep killing you in Iceblock. Cloak of Shadows/Evasion is effectively the same thing against anybody who doesn't have Overpower.
Try again.
TheKarmaPolice Jun 19th 2008 7:01PM
Preperation does not remove Cloak of Shadows
Before you start berating people's comments and opinions, I suggest you do your research
TheKarmaPolice Jun 19th 2008 7:02PM
I meant cloak of shadow's cooldown
no edit button!
jay Jun 19th 2008 1:16AM
Mounts at level 30.... bout time really.
Sorry bout the off topic post
PimpyMicPimp Jun 19th 2008 6:21AM
WoW PvP, lol
Drow Jun 19th 2008 7:41AM
This change HEAVILY affects Rogues < 70. Very few if any Rogues PvP'ing < 70 brackets uses resilience because you can't get enough of it to make it useful. I have a Rogue I PvP with at 69 and this is a MAJOR change for me. So much so that I'll most likely be dumping Cheat Death.
How does one go about appealing with Blizzard in hopes that they didn't realize how much this would affect Rogues < 70?
Laynne Jun 19th 2008 9:38AM
Exactly Drow.
My main is a level 66 rogue. I started the Subtlety tree because I do a lot of soloing, and it would improve my stealth. I ended up sticking with the tree, and thought Cheat Death looked like a good thing to have. I do pvp a fair amount now, but of course I still PVE. I don't have any pvp gear, and so, no resilience. This is a huge change for rogues under 70. Basically all it will do now is tell me when I'm at 10% of my health, which I can tell by looking at the bar anyway.