When to kick

Unfortunately, the fury warrior came with enough baggage to crush ten porters.
Rude? You bet. Racist? Oh yeah. Constantly going off on tirades about his job, his girlfriend, and any other subject in party chat (we used the in game voice client... oh, was that a mistake) while other people were trying to call out where the next spawn point was? You know it. And despite the fact that he was sporting full S2 gear, he couldn't kill an add in time to save our lives. Half the time he was nowhere near the adds at all, running off in some random direction as if his sense of location had been replaced with Folger's Crystals. And by the way, yes, we noticed. Considering that I've done that job in blues, and this wasn't even a heroic, we were faced with a choice.
We could put the warlock, who seemed very good at her job, on adds full time and stick the warrior on DPSing the bosses, or we could kick the warrior and get someone else to come in and DPS. Now, ordinarily, I'd vote to keep the guy just because he came in good faith. But the combination of his ineptitude and his rather horrible personality (not to mention the way he started hitting on our DPS the second they spoke and revealed their gender in between tirades about how his girlfriend is a bad healer) sealed the deal and I booted him. Got some nasty tells, ignored them, went about my day. We got an undergeared rogue friend to come in and DPS on the boss, to be honest we might have been able to four man it (that warlock was really good) and got it done.
However, I always look back on my decisions and wonder if they were the right ones. Should I have kicked him? Should I have just moved him to the boss and ignored what a loudmouthed pain he was? Was I expecting too much out of him since as a warrior I've done the fight myself? It's hard knowing when to kick someone and when to just let it ride. I mean, it's just a game, yeah, but at the same time the fact that it's just a game means I'm playing to have fun, not listen to someone's unpleasant personality unravel while lizards try and eat my face.
So I turn to you for your opinions. When do you kick people from groups? Are you overly tolerant or are you quick to boot, perhaps too quick? What's the general consensus on these matters?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, WoW Social Conventions, Odds and ends, Instances, Quests






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Badger Jun 18th 2008 11:05AM
"However, I always look back on my decisions and wonder if they were the right ones. Should I have kicked him?"
The dude sounds like a complete douchebag. Your answer is easily a bold, resounding "YES."
Honoke Jun 18th 2008 11:07AM
So, he was unpleasant and didn't know how to play? I'm surprised you put up with it that long. Yes, it's a game, which means you should be able to have fun, not babysit people who are socially inept.
Ikarus Jun 18th 2008 3:19PM
I'm typically willing to put up with an asshat as long as he can play. I guess it's a "end justifies the means" kinda thing. If im in a run run its for a reason, be it badges, loot, rep etc. If the asshat will help me achieve my end, so be it. It can be really hard/frustrating to get a full group for anything. Ill take what i can get
Jim Jun 18th 2008 11:10AM
Yeah, the performance issues don't even come in to play. It would take a lot for me to kick someone for incompetency.
If someone is unpleasant, especially towards the women in the group? That will guarantee a short hook.
Alchemistmerlin Jun 18th 2008 11:19AM
"If someone is unpleasant, especially towards the women in the group?"
"especially towards the women in the group"
Mmmm noble sexism, the best KIND of sexism.
MisterMoose Jun 18th 2008 11:25AM
I agree with that. I have only kicked people for being incompetent when it has caused or could cause a wipe. So a DPS that is pulling instead of the tank, is asking to get kicked in my groups. One of the worst guys I've had did this because he got "bored" and later justified it by talking about how he had three 70s.
However, if someone is being rude, unpleasant, and generally ruining the fun of the run, then that's a pretty good reason to kick them by itself. It's not pretty, and I've never had to do this to someone good, but there's no reason to waste your time with someone like that if they won't stop.
Jim Jun 18th 2008 11:35AM
I probably should have replied to my own comment with an "in before...". Women get a lot of crap in-game that men would never get. The obnoxiousness towards women is sexist and offensive, not just rude, like what the author describes. I don't think it's that hard to make the jump in what I said.
But anyway, you are right. Opening doors and saying "you shouldn't talk to a woman like that" is ingrained.
Alchemistmerlin Jun 18th 2008 12:26PM
No worries Jim, I do the same shit, I just like being snarky online.
There, I said it.
Lesley Jun 18th 2008 2:46PM
"If someone is unpleasant, especially towards the women in the group? "
As a female player, this made me smile. Don't worry, not everyone thinks that "the good kind of sexism" is a bad thing. Chivalry rocks, and is often sexy.
Krianna Jun 18th 2008 3:37PM
Chivalry?
Nice, man. I salute you.
lilleas Jun 18th 2008 5:02PM
I respect you for this comment because its nice that you recognize that unwanted grief and attention is what women get just because they are female. Its not the omg she's a girl thing so she has to be treated differently.. its not like that.. its the respect that is deserved as a person.
Xonate Jun 18th 2008 11:13AM
As my guild's main raid leader (and main tank), I have to put up with similar problems when doing anything with PUG people. I'm pretty tolerant though, and I almost never boot people for not being as good as we may want, unless it's extreme. Sometimes people just are so awful that you have no choice but to replace them.
As far as attitude goes, it's a completely different story. We expect everyone in our guild to be decent individuals so that we can all have fun, and we expect no less from PUGs. If people are rude, irritating, and racist or anything to that effect, they get the boot. We usually give them about one warning and tell them to knock if off, but if they don't, they're done raiding with us. This always seems to work out well for us.
Ancion Jun 18th 2008 11:12AM
Someone like that is only killing the experience. You made the right choice
Art Jun 18th 2008 11:12AM
I think a far worse situation is one I encountered not too long ago in heroic Magisters' Terrace. Our healer was a really nice guy with good gear. Problem was, he was awful. We toughed it out to Kael'thas, but couldn't down him because our healer just couldn't heal.
It's pretty easy to kick an asshole, but how on earth do you kick a nice person who can't perform their task (when for the sake of the group, they should leave)? Hard call.
Milktub Jun 18th 2008 11:29AM
You just have to admit that sometimes the cards just aren't aligned right. I was in H BF the other week. Fun group. But I noticed that it was taking a lot longer to kill trash than it should. I opened up recount to take a look at the meters. My warlock friend was #1 ... but I (warrior tank) was #2, doing almost as much damage as the two hunters were doing combined.
But we trudged along. As we got to the first boss, I made it known in party chat that there was no way we would be able to down the second boss with the dps available. We chose to down the first boss, said goodbye to the hunters, and promptly invited two more dps and went on to finish the job.
Or there was the really nice priest healer who came in for a regular BM run a few months back. Was very friendly and such in party chat. We grouped up, entered, and I checked out gear as people were buffing. Tier gear is good ... but t0.5 gear isn't good at level 70. I whispered the healer. That was indeed their healing gear. I apologized, then kicked.
Kassaria Jun 18th 2008 11:16AM
Hail to the party leader who has the maturity and common sense to realize when someone is not a good fit for the run. I'm sure the rest of your group was very thankful that you did not allow him to ruin the run and day for the rest of your party. Good Job!
Milktub Jun 18th 2008 11:19AM
I LOVE pugging. Love it. On play days, I tank 2-3 heroic pugs (and regular pugs before I was heroic-geared).
I'm forgiving of inexact play. Someone without great dps isn't an issue with me, or if they're not familiar with the boss, or they break CC, or pull aggro. That's ok.
I'm less forgiving of incompetent play. If I've told the mage to stop opening up with a Pyro before the mobs even get to me, or told the warlock that Rain of Fire isn't the best use of mana, yet they continue to do it, I'll consider kicking them.
I'm not forgiving at all of plain old rude, racist, sexist or otherwise immature behavior. First innapropriate comment from you and you're gone. I don't care if you're a t6 healer coming along for a heroic at 3am.
Eternalpayn Jun 18th 2008 11:55AM
You should roll Horde on Sargeras. Please? :P
And to the no pants guy below, ROFL! That's hilarious.
@OP: And as a million other people have said, you made the right choice. If a player is super bad I'd consider a kick, like if they die twice as much as everyone else does, or blatantly cause every wipe. If they just aren't hitting to high on the DPS meter, not a problem. If you don't give them a shot, they'll never get better. As for idiocy and offensiveness, I'll tolerate one off-joke, but tell them to stop. They say another and they're gone, assuming I have lead.
darian Jun 18th 2008 11:20AM
I'm a firm proponent of kicking assholes and leaving groups full of them. If you silently grit and bear it you're a better person for it, but the WoW community as a whole is not. These kinds of players will walk all over you so long as they know you need them enough that they can get away with murder.
On the other hand, I'm far more cautious about kicking people over their skill level. If someone can't do the job I assign them I'll try and give them helpful tips and even coach them through it if they admit they don't know what to do. Even if they don't make but slow progress if any, giving it their best shot gives them a few brownie points in my book. It's only when they complain that they're already leetsauce and know how to play their class yadda yadda that I give them the boot.
ninjasuperspy Jun 18th 2008 11:21AM
I had a dude show up to Heroic Ramps with no pants. We didn't wait for him to screw up the run, just "Hey, where are your pants?" "I don't need 'em." "Bye."