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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsEA CEO: Warhammer won't rival WoW
by Daniel Whitcomb 
Jun 19th 2008 at 7:30PM
There's been quite a bit of buzz around that whole little Warhammer game that's coming out soon, and while we're not a Warhammer blog or anything, we've at least covered the questions that keep arising over how it stack up to WoW. Will Warhammer Online be the game to beat WoW? Is Blizzard stealing Ideas from them?
Electronic Arts CEO John Riccitello put his two cents into the kitty recently at an investor's meeting. Next Generation reports that he said the following:
"Warhammer Online [will be] a strong entry in the MMORPG space," Riccitiello said at the William Blair & Company's investor meeting Tuesday. "No, I don't think it's going to rival WoW, but no one would ever predict that. But it is a strong game that will ... get our returns for us. We're proud of it."
Riccitello has been content to settle for lesser sales in the past, but this could also be seen as yet another acknowledgment from a major game company CEO that you just can't beat Blizzard. Activision got around the problem by joining them rather than beating them, but I don't think we'll be seeing EA-Activision-Blizzard any time soon.
It'll be interesting to see if EA's more non-competitive approach allows them a foothold in the MMO world. While David and Goliath was always one of my favorite stories as a young lad, It may simply be true that Blizzard's numbers aren't really directly assaultable. In that case, Riccitello may have the right idea: Just find a decent player base that likes what you do, and settle for decent profits instead of massive profits. Of course, whether Warhammer's more dedicated fans are apt to give up the fight against WoW is probably another question entirely.
[Via Massively]
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Rasnarok Jun 20th 2008 12:50AM
I'd say WAR will occupy the PvP niche while WoW will continue occupy the PvE niche.
Mia Jun 20th 2008 1:16AM
The Mythic folk are saying exactly what they should say. After all, if they went around saying they'll take over the market, everyone would just laugh.
But for those of us who are long-term MMO gamers- I'm talking mid-'90s when I started- it's just a business cycle. If WAR doesn't kill WoW then something else will; it's inevitable.
I do think WAR will severely drain a few groups away from WoW.
First, the PvP crowd. Not the few Arena junkies out there (and you are few, more people do it because they "have to" than because they have a deep and abiding love for Arena), but the old-school, meet-me-in-an-8-hour-AV people. I ground out my Field Marshal back when it meant something, when you had to have a team of friends and queue WSG/AB several hours a night in order to make your ranks. It was by far the best time I EVER had playing an MMO. Better than raiding, which I also did plenty of both pre-and post-BC. RvR and WAR's guild system will draw these people like flies to honey, because WoW really is not a very good PvP game.
Second, the burnouts. There's a not-insignificant crowd that simply got tired of WoW. You might not be tired of it but many are, and have quit or will quit. Some are playing AoC and some are playing LOTRO and some are taking the summer off. A few are still trying to recruit those constant raid-slot needs and somehow band-aid the guild through BT and Sunwell. But there are a ton of burnouts in these various stages who are ripe for the picking. I personally don't see AoC as keeping the WoW crowd for a long time; I personally find the zoning and sectioned-off feeling of the world kind of offputting. My account there won't last the summer.
And third, there are people who just love the Warhammer 'verse. Seriously love it. I mean, it gave birth to Warcraft, if you know your history. I fall into this category too. I've kinda been turned off by how Blizzard put the bulk of the storyline into raid instances so hard most players never see them (even though I was in guilds that did get to go, 95+ percent of players don't see "the end").
EverQuest was great. It had a huge and persistent world, and memories of running across Kith at night still make me twitch. But it also sucked. WoW looked at what made customers unhappy with EQ and fixed many of those issues, and thus drew down a bunch of EQ's players - still, though, WoW only has about 2 mil players in North America. But Blizzard has cleverly launched themselves in overseas Asian markets which massively bumps up their sub rates.
WoW is great. It's a huge and persistent world and I have fond memories of things I've done there. But it also sucks, and some company (maybe Mythic, maybe somebody else) will come along and make a game that improves upon the issues at hand (class balance, itemization, grinding, graphics quality, whatever), and steal away a bunch of their people.
What cracks me up and amazes me a little is that Blizzard honestly doesn't seem to think that it's possible anyone can succeed them. Pride goeth before the fall. Someday, somebody will- whether it's Mythic or somebody else, somebody will.
Mia Jun 20th 2008 1:17AM
The Mythic folk are saying exactly what they should say. After all, if they went around saying they'll take over the market, everyone would just laugh.
But for those of us who are long-term MMO gamers- I'm talking mid-'90s when I started- it's just a business cycle. If WAR doesn't kill WoW then something else will; it's inevitable.
I do think WAR will severely drain a few groups away from WoW.
First, the PvP crowd. Not the few Arena junkies out there (and you are few, more people do it because they "have to" than because they have a deep and abiding love for Arena), but the old-school, meet-me-in-an-8-hour-AV people. I ground out my Field Marshal back when it meant something, when you had to have a team of friends and queue WSG/AB several hours a night in order to make your ranks. It was by far the best time I EVER had playing an MMO. Better than raiding, which I also did plenty of both pre-and post-BC. RvR and WAR's guild system will draw these people like flies to honey, because WoW really is not a very good PvP game.
Second, the burnouts. There's a not-insignificant crowd that simply got tired of WoW. You might not be tired of it but many are, and have quit or will quit. Some are playing AoC and some are playing LOTRO and some are taking the summer off. A few are still trying to recruit those constant raid-slot needs and somehow band-aid the guild through BT and Sunwell. But there are a ton of burnouts in these various stages who are ripe for the picking. I personally don't see AoC as keeping the WoW crowd for a long time; I personally find the zoning and sectioned-off feeling of the world kind of offputting. My account there won't last the summer.
And third, there are people who just love the Warhammer 'verse. Seriously love it. I mean, it gave birth to Warcraft, if you know your history. I fall into this category too. I've kinda been turned off by how Blizzard put the bulk of the storyline into raid instances so hard most players never see them (even though I was in guilds that did get to go, 95+ percent of players don't see "the end").
EverQuest was great. It had a huge and persistent world, and memories of running across Kith at night still make me twitch. But it also sucked. WoW looked at what made customers unhappy with EQ and fixed many of those issues, and thus drew down a bunch of EQ's players - still, though, WoW only has about 2 mil players in North America. But Blizzard has cleverly launched themselves in overseas Asian markets which massively bumps up their sub rates.
WoW is great. It's a huge and persistent world and I have fond memories of things I've done there. But it also sucks, and some company (maybe Mythic, maybe somebody else) will come along and make a game that improves upon the issues at hand (class balance, itemization, grinding, graphics quality, whatever), and steal away a bunch of their people.
What cracks me up and amazes me a little is that Blizzard honestly doesn't seem to think that it's possible anyone can succeed them. Pride goeth before the fall. Someday, somebody will- whether it's Mythic or somebody else, somebody will.
Kryptonls Jun 20th 2008 5:24AM
Article:
"Activision got around the problem by joining them rather than beating them, but I don't think we'll be seeing EA-Activitison-Blizzard any time soon."
Second use of Activision - typo?
GTG Jun 20th 2008 7:50AM
I don't think that WAR really cares to directly compete with WoW; whats the point? WoW has a fairly dedicated fan base (10mil + subs, with 500K in the US?) that a majority have really 'bought in' to the game's culture. It's a great PvE centric game, with some outlets for PvP; this being WoW's niche.
Where you'll see WAR pull some numbers from WoW will be the people who like open-world PvP. Reading the forums, you can see several anti-arena personalities; so the desire for a more open, fluid and continuous PvP experience is present in WoW; but since there's no other MMO out right now with the same quality and polish as WoW and PvP centric, most are choosing to stick with Warcraft for the time being. Once WAR comes out with its object-oriented RvR approach, a strong influence on groups and sieges; I think you'll see that portion of the population slip away and migrate towards Warhammer. While beta numbers are no indication of the ultimate performance and popularity of a game; WAR has accumulated over 700K applicants for its Beta program; showing that there is *significant* interest in the market right now for a open-world, dynamic PvP experience. The ultimate deciding factor will be the new player experience in WAR; WoW's greatest accomplishment was that a majority of it's player base had never played an MMORPG before, and they had such a successful buy in from the new players. If Warhammer is able to follow suit, they'll experience a similar success (not a greater or rivaling success; just similar).
WoW, with the advent of arenas, is pushing itself more and more towards the eLeagues and competative gaming, which is another niche market it can establish itself in; because WAR is not going to take that approach at all. They're games for people with completely different mindsets; and choices / competition is great for the MMO genre in general. I think it's foolish of any game company to come along and say their going to be the next great thing in the MMO Market (WoW killer), but its equally as foolish for Blizzard to think that they're the unconquerable MMO.
Buckshot Jun 20th 2008 8:42AM
Was playing war a bit last night, it is better everytime I play. It's more a real world feel, rather than the cartoon-like feeling of wow. And don't think the dx10 has been activated yet, but it still looks and plays great.
Thander Jun 20th 2008 1:53PM
This just fits with EA's business plan. Make a lot of games. Don't spend tons of developer dollars or time on any game. Just make a lot of games and you're bound to get a few good ones. It works because they are so big. They can afford to have a few bad games. The big sellers more than make up for the bad ones.
Contrast this with Blizzard who spends lots and lots of time on every game to make it as perfect as possible but doesn't make very many games.
Dean Jun 20th 2008 8:23PM
EA understand the market. They know WoW was a one-off phenomenon. Mia is right, in that for long time MMO players there's a whole circle of life thing, and when the next big MMO comes along they move onto that. When they do, WoW will lose about 10% of its subscribers. The rest will have no interest in anything else.
Mia Jun 21st 2008 2:22AM
Yeah. Blizzard has really exploited people's interest in PvP in order to mask the too-infrequent content upgrades (2 years between expansions is way too long). PvP was an easy way to keep a fair amount of people grinding honor and/or Arena for basically the cheap, cheap development price of a new set of armor assets every 4-6 months (and pre-BC, not even replacing armor sets - people did it for titles!).
But taking the lazy way in their attempts to keep people entertained will take its toll. They kept the same battlegrounds for 4 years and never have figured out any kind of class balance. People started botting and doing all kinds of other stupid things just to get through it. Bliz kept putting up new rewards, but they forgot to make the maze any more fun. Basically they exploited PvP to extend their market dominance for a little while.
They also did a far better job than any other North American company of taking an MMO to Asia, where the potential market is much larger than it is here. But they did the bare minimum necessary to keep themselves going - they definitely have not plowed much of those profits into expanding the basic game. And often when they do put some money back into it, they make weird decisions.
Take the integrated voice chat for an example. LoTRO was going to release with that, so Bliz decided that they needed to offer it too in order to make sure they kept their dominant position. The funny thing is, the players never asked for it, didn't really want it, and don't really use it. Even the pugs I did, up until I quit in February, still would confer on whose Vent to use for the run. It may be different in other parts of the world, but in N.A. I don't know a single soul that uses the built in voice chat function. Who would not have wanted them to take that money and put it towards a different group of employees and a 12 month WoTLK release as opposed to what looks to be a 22-24 month wait?
I do think WoW will lose more than 10 percent of their base though, in the North American and Oceanic markets. North America has a lot of weary players ready for something new and is the oldest and most fatigued playerbase of all. Oceania, meanwhile, has been relatively ill-treated by Blizzard's refusal to use a local datacenter, resulting in terrible lag and server maintenance windows during their prime time play hours. WAR's going after Oceania with a local-to-them datacenter, and that will get them some enthusiastic interest from Aussies and New Zealanders. (Don't be shocked if Bliz decides to move the Oceania servers Down Under to compete, heh.)
They won't lose much if any of their Asian market to speak of, at least until Mythic chooses to aggressively pursue those areas of the world.
I think WoW was a terrific PvE game, but the PvE got way too shoved aside; clearly they have the profits to continue expanding the game, so one can only assume the lack of timely progress is a choice. I wish they had kept it up better and not turned to all this other nonsense. eSport indeed, heh.
Wulf Jun 21st 2008 9:59AM
"And third, there are people who just love the Warhammer 'verse. Seriously love it. I mean, it gave birth to Warcraft, if you know your history. I fall into this category too. I've kinda been turned off by how Blizzard put the bulk of the storyline into raid instances so hard most players never see them (even though I was in guilds that did get to go, 95+ percent of players don't see "the end")." - Mia
I'm sorry but as a serious lore nerd for both Warhammer and Warcraft I have to take issue with some if this.
First, Warhammer did not "give birth" to Warcraft, thats a silly internet rumour that gets bandied around from time to time, but there has never been a shred of evidence to back up such claims other than they both have 'War' in the title.
Secondly, having looked at some of the articles on the new Warhammer game, they appear to have utterly butchered the Warhammer world in terms of its fluff (background). One of the game developers has even brazenly admitted messing around with the background to his own tastes! Which is a shame, because games like Dawn of War have proved that its possible to make a good game within the confines of an established universe.
I think a lot of Warhammer fans are going to be severely disappointed by this game, but lets face it, it was never targeted at them, its just a way for Games Workshop to help deal with its serious financial problems, not a high quality product.