Battleground fallacies

I know we're all excited about Season 4. Some of us are stockpiling arena points and trying to get our ratings up, while others are taking the opportunity to gear up some alts in Season 2 gear as soon as it moves to honor. And that's great, there's something for everyone. But it also seems, at least on the servers I play on, to be leading to some frayed tempers in the battlegrounds. So let's chat about what is, and what isn't, appropriate and useful for getting yourself some honor in the BG's.
First off, and I can't say this one enough as a general piece of advice for any battleground, yelling, calling people names, and spamming macros does not actually make you Sun Tzu. It can be very annoying when your WSG turns into a 45 minute turtle with no flag captures, or your AV run becomes mired down because yet again everyone rushed RH instead of taking and holding Iceblood Graveyard, but no matter how creative your insults get, the tide of battle will not turn. The other players in the battleground are not going to say "you know, Matsakillza is right, I really am a total noob" and even if they did, how would that possibly improve how the match is progressing? It won't. It just makes you look like a petulant child throwing a fit because something didn't go your way.
Now that we've gotten that bit of general advice out of the way, let's move on to specific examples from each battleground, linking to our own Zach Yonzon's thoughts on each as we do.
Alterac Valley
One of the biggest mistakes groups get into is the 'rush the end graveyard' strategy. Especially popular for the Alliance as it used to be a huge winner, back when the Horde had no idea how to counter it, it's still resurrected from the dead each and every battleground even though it has almost no chance of working unless the opposite side plays like morons who have been heavily drugged and then beaten repeatedly about the head and shoulders with inanimate carbon rods.
Yes, I know you won your last three AV's this way. How many have you lost with this strategy? How many times have you taken the Relief Hut only to look at the map and realize that there are only five Alliance players south of Iceblood, and they're all with you? How many times have you skipped Frostwolf Graveyard to cap RH and the towers, only to see wave after wave after wave of Horde players come up, recapture the towers, and keep you bogged down defending RH while their offense moves steadily north, captures each graveyard in its turn, defends them, and moves forward again? How many times have you wiped repeatedly on Drek and his warmasters while the Horde systematically annihilates the towers?
It is never a good idea to assume the enemy is stupid. If you can see a way your strategy will fail, you should assume they can too, especially one as old and hoary as this one. Likewise, killing Galv/Balinda before taking a GY is not a good idea. Not only does it give the enemy a chance to wipe you and send you back to your starting point, but it means they can rush you while doing do from their nearby, conveniently placed res spot.
Warsong Gulch
You cannot win without defending your own flag and your flag carrier.
If you have 9 people on offense going for the flag and they have five on defense, they will hold you up long enough to prevent you from taking their flag until after they've not only sent five in to kill your one defender and take your flag, but then the ones who you killed taking their flag will constantly prevent you from leaving with it while their flag carrier and his defenders run back, hit you from the other side, kill your FC and then cap right in front of you. You need enough defense to do the same back to them. Any strategy that hinges on your entire team going into their base, where they have the benefit of knowing exactly what you're trying to do and control of the line of sight, means you're going to fail unless you massively outgear/outplay them.
Now, you can count on massively outgearing/outplaying the other team if you're a premade group in full S3/Tier6 gear against a PuG group. But that's not a plan so much as it is straightforward mauling of an inferior team, and even then, if they had some defense they could at least slow you down a lot.
If you go in alone, cap the flag, run out and run into the enemy with no one anywhere near you, you're going to die. Be philosophical about this. You knew you were alone when you took the flag.
Arathi Basin
For the love of whatever you hold sacred, don't rush off and leave a node undefended to go fight on the road! Why do people do this? Why? What possible reason could you have to leave mine undefended to go attack stables and then not even go to the flag at the stables? Are you under the impression that pile of standing stones contains vast caches of riches? Did you get confused about the objective of the match, which is to take nodes and hold them? Winning the match in no way requires you to score the most KB's. No matter how many times you tell us all about how you're leading the BG in killing blows, if we're losing, no one cares how awesome you are.
If we're up three to two, this is not the time to all leave BS undefended and hit one of the two nodes the enemy has. BS is right in the middle of the map. Every node has access to it, with mine and lumber mill having the hardest of a not particularly hard time rushing it. So if you leave BS to go hit farm, expect that BS will be taken from you if you don't leave someone, anyone there to defend it, even to just yell out "BS BS BS" as the enemy slaughters him as brutally as crazed shoppers the day after Thanksgiving.
If for some reason your team decides to go as a full group and rush each base, the other team will just send five to follow after you and take everything back as you leave. You can rush one base as a mob, but then you have to leave people behind to defend what you take, or it was pointless.
And seriously, no one cares how many killing blows you got. That one dude with no KB's who helped hold stables the entire game? He did more than you did. He played with an eye towards winning.
Eye of the Storm
If you hold three bases, you win. If you hold two bases and consistently hold mid-field, you win.
Holding one base and consistently holding mid field does not win.
Holding no bases and consistently holding mid field makes no sense at all. You can't cap a flag if you don't have any place to take a flag, and furthermore, you see how fast their score is shooting up with all four bases? You see that? That means they're going to win very, very quickly. When we ask you to stop rushing mid-field and attack a tower, calling us names and ignoring us is just contributing to why we are losing. Declaiming that you enjoy running the flag is ludicrous when the only place to run it to is occupied by a bunch of Alliance players waiting to rip your head clean off, thank you for the flag, and cap it to end the game even earlier.
I'm sure you've experienced some BG fallacies of your own. Please, gentle reader, do share.
Filed under: Horde, Alliance, Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Battlegrounds






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Esteban81 Jun 23rd 2008 3:15PM
Good advice, but for an article telling people not to call other people names, this article had quite a condescending tone to it.
Matthew Rossi Jun 23rd 2008 3:18PM
There's a difference between me calling you a name and me sounding arrogant or condescending. Not that I agree that it does... exasperated I could see, but condescending I'm not seeing rereading it... but even a condescending tone is miles above direct insults, name calling and swearing.
JonRowley Jun 23rd 2008 3:23PM
It did have a condescending tone to it ..... but having felt all of those frustrations I understand.
s256 Jun 23rd 2008 3:30PM
Doesn't seem condescending to me.
Seems like frustration :P
Zali Jun 23rd 2008 4:05PM
I expect that he was talking to someone who wasn't me.
Brandon Tilley Jun 23rd 2008 5:36PM
It only sounds condescending if you're guilty. :P
Gryphon Hall Jun 24th 2008 12:49AM
It does not read condescending at all.
Compare his words to "Rush RH now! Don't stop to cap tower or GY! OMG, you noobz! one of you tried to cap IBGY! That's it, alliance loses in 8:16. You guys make me sick! Why do alliance suck so much?"
or
"Hush, child! I have more kills than you, nublet. Go to RH like you are told."
and then later
"The reason why we lost is because we didn't ALL rush RH. RUSH RH=WIN. You all epic fail."
Matthew, I salute your forbearance.
jerzz80 Jun 24th 2008 9:20AM
LOL yeap.
And this yoko is an ICBY guy. LOL. Of course rushing RH isnt the right idea, but telling people to gaurd IB is recipe for disaster.
For the record TOWERS, are the single most important factor in AV. Take the towers and the entire fight is easier.
Algorithm Jun 24th 2008 2:55PM
There is one thing I disagree with in this article.
Battlegrounds do not have a dominant strategy. There is not one thing you should do every single time. If there was, over the long term your opponent would learn what you were going to do, and counter your efforts.
Sometimes rushing the RH works. A lot of the time it doesn't. It's effective when your opponent is running far too much offense/mid/etc, and leaving his home base undefended.
For WSG: you can have 10 people take the flag, and return your flag on the way back. Also, you can have 9 defenders, and 1 druid getting the flag. It depends on the strategy (and strength) of the opponent whether it works. Even in AB, in theory, there are times where defense is useless.
PuG battlegrounds are frustrating, because winning requires working together in unison efficiently and adapting to the enemy. However, at the same time, it also requires a simple strategy that 15 random people can follow.
A completely flawed, vulnerable strategy that is easy to coordinate can frequently beat out an opponent that's expecting you to play conservatively/rationally.
I'm not a "Rush the Aid Station" guy. But, I don't think it's a dumb strategy. It works enough that I'm not going to bash it outright. What you need, and can't control is for exactly enough people to listen.
There is so much ineptitude on both sides, and it's out of your control most of the time anyway.
One thing I will mention that you didn't is the "res defender." People can res at a base and defend it immediately. Good BG teams take this into account.
One of the biggest fallacies I see is people who res at a tower, for example, and rush off towards another objective, instead of turning around and killing the enemy at the tower.
Doz Jun 23rd 2008 3:15PM
I always hoped that after years in some bgs, Alterac Valley in particular, Alliance and Horde would realize the mutual benefits that can exist. AV can be one of the quickest, best honor returning matches, IF people aren't concerned with their own personal HK rating. Its a concept most people will disagree upon, but I do favor the charge in to the final hut and cap it. It basically turns the match into a dps race, race being key since we all hate sitting in bgs forever. However its not practical since there is inevitably someone who is going to stay back and defend, causing headaches to the other team. Why people don't understand that multiple quick matches will yield more honor than turtling is beyond me.
Matthew Rossi Jun 23rd 2008 3:19PM
In a perfect scenario where the other team either fails to understand that defense will win them a game or decides not to bother in order to go faster, you're right. But it very rarely, in my experience at least, works that way.
aaronmbraun Jun 23rd 2008 5:19PM
Because some people enjoy playing the game as a game, not as another farming ground. I'd rather play 3 winning games that involved some sort of strategy than 10 quick "rush-AS-kill-Van!!" games anyday.
John Jun 23rd 2008 3:27PM
Because not everybody is there to play a bunch of matches and farm badges.
when I play AV I have 2 goals, kill the captain, if that doesn't work keep my captain alive. That is the fun of AV. I don't want to pop-in, run north, win repeat.
I want an epic battle between 2 factions.
forthepie Jun 23rd 2008 3:27PM
@Doz
The reason being a lot of folks don't just do BGs for honor or marks. I would rather win than lose a little bit quicker and get more honor/hour. I've had 20 min games where we stopped the alliance at IB and they got 0 bonus honor, we capped all our objectives and killed Galv. 600+ bonus honor to zero.
While I understand that the honor/hour group is large, it pains me to hear just lose quick over the bg chat.
wowinsider Jun 23rd 2008 3:34PM
Dude, do you even know how the bonus honor is calculated?
* Killing Enemy General (4 kills)
* Killing Enemy Captain (3 kills)
* Destroying an Enemy Tower (3 kills per tower)
* Live Captain (2 kills)
* Surviving towers (2 kills per tower)
* Completing AV during it's holiday weekend (4 kills)
* Having a Wing Commander safely return to his or her home base (1 kill)
If you defend, but complete your objectives, you get 4+3+(4*3)+2+(4*2)+3 = 33 bonus HKs.
If done as you suggest, 2+(4*2)+4 = 14 for win, 10 for loss.
I'd rather play defense, take twice as long, rack up twice as many HKs, and collect more than double bonus honor.
The only, and I repeat, only time it makes sense to play like you suggest is AV weekend because there is a bonus for completion.
Crowfoot Jun 23rd 2008 3:37PM
Provided I'm not completely rolled into the ground by unending tide of horses, cats, rams, mechano-striders and wth... an elephant??? I love to defend in AV. Taking ground and holding it against all comers is a very defiant (albeit often boring) way to play the match.
I don't really need massive piles of honor. I just came to play the game, and winning is much funner than losing. I don't really RP, but I do enjoy a little escape in my escapism. And of all the battlegrounds, AV is easily the most "RP-ish." Besides, you suggest that I, tauren shaman, Mender of the Winds, Keeper of the Sacred Thunder and Champion of the Bloodhoof, should freely make way for a gnome no bigger than my hoof to freely attack my sworn allies? I think not, good sir, I think not.
Heilig Jun 23rd 2008 3:50PM
"I'd rather play defense, take twice as long, rack up twice as many HKs, and collect more than double bonus honor."
Your math is flawed. You assume it takes twice as long, when in reality it goes from a 15 minute game to an hour or more.
14*4 = 56
56 > 33
Doz Jun 23rd 2008 3:50PM
I did use to enjoy the AV fight, I got 2 chars to exalted under the original setup. Even still it is my favorite battleground, however, Blizz has made many, many changes to turn it into a very short fight. This it seems, has taken a lot of the story, as well as most of the npc's, out of the fight. I don't really agree with all of it, I miss the trolls and I really miss having to summon the riders/elementals etc to help turn the fight. My point is that this fight is no longer the epic battle it used to be, might as well take advantage of what Blizz changed it into.
wowinsider Jun 23rd 2008 5:46PM
Heilig, I don't know what AV you've been playing, but since they went to the reinforcement system, games don't take longer than 20 minutes, and even if they did, the HKs racked up during those games far outpace that miniscule amount of bonus honor.
How do you earn HKs when both teams bolt for the general?
I swear, all people see is the bonus honor given out at the end and never actually look at the real honor given, particularly now when you can kill the same noob for the same amount of honor over and over again.
RG-Rhodin Jun 23rd 2008 5:49PM
@Heilig
"Your math is flawed. "
And yours is optimistic. If you are winning all your matches, AND winning them in 15 min, then we will hail you as a WowGod. But I do not think that is the case for most folks.
Contrary to what many think, you can have a good D with 10-15 people, and a good O with 25 or so. Put 2 to 3 good players at your towers to stop ninjas, and the rest to stuff the first wave at galv or belinda and then fall back to a chokepoint . Slowly give ground if need be, and fight hard at GYs along the way. Take mines early.
15 min is true on the time of day and other random events. It also depends on if the othar team is also in a race with you. Usually a 15 min game is 50/50. A long game is AT MOST 45 min, and usually 30.
So, 3 15 min games are between 38 and 34 honor. 2 games is around 24 honor. It doesn't mean 15 min games are bad, just that they are not as great as you make them sound.