Officers' Quarters: Cracking the whip
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.Remember when The Burning Crusade launched and everyone was in a big hurry to ding 70? Apparently some guilds are still leveling up. This week's e-mail doesn't mention whether these are new players or rerolls, but the problem is the same: What should you do when the people you're counting on just aren't leveling up fast enough?
I am a member of a small guild on Gul'dan server. I sympathize with and thank K for sharing his guild problems. Our guild is a lot younger and most likely smaller than his is or was at one point, but as we progress to get our members leveled up and geared up for raiding I can already notice a slight discontent, similar to what K described.
We are very casual right now and our leader is letting the guild "breathe its own air", by not imposing any strict rule. This is done to allow the players to feel comfortable as they level up. The only real rule, more of a suggestion I would say, that we ask our members to follow, is to disregard any dungeon quest and just concentrate on leveling up as fast as possible, without having higher levels running you through areas.
Right now we have a nice core of 20 regulars, of which 8 are 70s and a handful more are in the high 60s. We know the time is coming to start raiding but we are holding off. Why are we holding off? We get the idea that before we can start raiding we need to have all of our positions covered, we need to make sure our members know how to play those roles and get better at them.
This is where K's story starts sounding familiar. We have members that want to raid right now, without waiting for all the roles to be covered. Yes it would be nice, but it would also be a suicide mission. Because we are being prudent, now we are losing members. At one point we started attracting other level 70s, but they shortly left when they realized that we where not ready to raid, which has dropped the morale of some of the members. Our guild leader is trying to keep them busy by setting up a website for the members and emails for the officers, but every time I log on, the guild log shows the victims of our strategy. [. . .]
--D.
My guild, being both large and casual, has never really worried about leveling. In fact, I took my time on the way to 70. I wanted to smell the roses, so to speak, and enjoy the new content without rushing through it. Of course, I was a hunter back then and far from essential to our raiding. Now I'm one of very few Holy paladins, so the situation might be a little different next time . . .
In any event, we had the luxury of letting the chips fall where they may when the level cap was raised. Whoever hit 70 first would be part of our initial Karazhan team, and we'd just keep adding to the list of available players as time went on. But for a small guild, one player hitting 70 can mean the difference between raiding every week or burning out on dailies and Heroics.
D, first allow me to make two comments on your current situation.
The first is this: Even though your guild is casual, you have policies (or "suggestions") that are only slowing down your leveling members. I can understand that you don't want people sitting in town waiting for a dungeon group to form, but it's simple to join the LFG channel while you're questing. And if you do manage to get a run going, not only do you get the XP from the dungeon mobs, but dungeon quests often give a ton of experience. Plus you're earning reputation to purchase better gear, more recipes, helm enchantments, and heroic keys.
I ran Underbog on an alt a few days ago. I did three quests in a run that took about an hour, and each quest gave me 22,000 XP. It was well worth my time. I didn't get any drops, but if I had, it would have only helped me to kill things faster.
Also, banning your 70s from helping out those who are leveling is practically cruel and unusual. Outland zones are full of quick group quests where you just have to kill one elite mob. With a 70 or two helping you, you could probably bang out all the group quests in Hellfire, Zangarmarsh, and Terokkar in about an hour. You'd rake in hundreds of thousands of XP, plus earn rare rewards to help you level. Since your 70s are impatiently waiting for these fellow members to catch up to them, this is clearly a win-win!
Now, I understand that you want people to learn their classes and not have their hands held all the way to 70. That is admirable and in most circumstances I would agree with you wholeheartedly. However, it seems that the very existence of your guild is at stake. It might be time to make some compromises.
And that leads me to my second comment: What on Earth are you waiting for? Again, it's admirable that you want to keep all your raiding within the guild. That's always preferable when you can achieve that. But clearly, at this time, you cannot. So why not bring in a few outside people to get a Kara run off the ground? Obviously running Kara with one healer or no tanks is a "suicide mission." But there have got to be people outside the guild who wouldn't mind running with you guys for the chance at epic loot.
In addition, why not take some of your ready-to-go raiders along on server PUGs? I don't know what the situation is on Gul'dan, but my server frequently has PUGs for Gruul's Lair, Magtheridon, and Serpentshrine. SSC might be beyond your gear right now, but the other raids are not.
Stop insulating yourselves from the server. Running raids with people in other guilds or unguilded characters is a great way to make friends, get your guild's name out there, and help you recruit or form alliances.
As for the people who are still leveling, you can "crack the whip" all you want, but people with other things going on in their lives can only level at a certain pace. If you won't allow higher level players to help out with quests or dungeon runs, they could at least provide enchantments, gems, potions, buffs, BOEs, and crafted gear to make things go a little quicker. Also, you never know when a little unsolicited aid can guilt someone into spending a bit more time leveling than they were planning to!
Looking forward, if I had to make a plan for leveling guild toons to 80, this is how I would handle it. First of all, I'd ask for volunteers who wanted to hit 70 as quickly as possible. It's difficult to do that now, because no one knows when we'll be heading to Northrend. But once that information goes public, then people will be able to judge whether they'll have enough free time or not. Ideally, there would be 12-15 such people who can make the big push. That's enough to start on the 10-player raiding path at least. I'd ask for a list of all their alts and levels, and which classes and specs they'd prefer to play. From that list, I'd assign a class and spec to each person, covering all possible bases.
Of course, I have the luxury of a large pool of players. What if your personnel is limited, as it is in D's situation? In this case, I'd encourage people to communicate their play schedules so they can group up whenever possible. Grouping makes the "kill-X-of-Y quests" go much quicker (and obviously helps with group quests). Healers and tanks kill things more slowly on their own than DPS classes. But a tank-healer-DPS trio can burn through normal mobs without ever stopping to take a break. They can slaughter just about any elite mob a questgiver in their level range asks them to. I'd also encourage people to run dungeons whenever they can.
If anything slows down leveling, I'd say it's your professions. First Aid is obviously easy and fast to max out. But consider how much time is spent gathering herbs, mining ore, skinning every mob possible, browsing the AH for deals on crafting materials, researching the cheapest recipes to help you level, and standing there crafting 20 items at a time. Then sometimes you have to travel to a certain area to make a particular item or learn recipes from a certain trainer. It's a real timesink.
If you really want to hit the level cap as quickly as possible, you should ignore your professions until after that final ding. There are very few BOP recipes until you're maxed out, so anything you could eventually craft for yourself you can probably buy from someone else. I'm not claiming this is a profitable way to level, just the fastest!
We were all once in D's position, and we will be again when Wrath of the Lich King goes live. How did your guild handle the pressure of leveling last time? Do you have a plan for grinding to 80?
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Dranaerys Jun 23rd 2008 11:11AM
Agreed, set up some Kara runs to satisfy the want of some of your lvl 70 memebers to raid - pug the empty slots and get going! Believe it or not, watching your lvl 70 guildies begin raiding kara is a HUGE incentive for those mid-60's to get cracking so they dont miss out on the fun.
Chri Jun 24th 2008 1:28AM
I couldn't agree more.
When they feel like they're missing out... that's when they'll really feel the urge to make it to 70!
Kanzaki Jun 28th 2008 7:49PM
I would comment that the only problem with getting the members who are ready to raid Kara going is that they will get burned out on Kara very quickly. So that when the last of your members are starting Kara the others will not want to go and you might come accross the problem of motivating the players that have all of their gear from the instance not going. So in that situation I can appreciate the holding off on Kara though I know the exact position you are in right now.
Also what about the people who are going slowly? Do they even want to raid? Will they really get jealous of missing the fun? Just a couple of things to think about in general not to really knock on the situation. Good luck with your guild's future. Perhaps like people said find out what your guild wants (the members who are not leveling very quickly) and then find out what you need to do to get your guild raiding. If some of the 60's are interested in raiding and they are leveling slowly maybe try and motivate them to level faster if that is really their goal. Then when you find out what you are short on maybe open up the doors for a small recruiting drive? I don't know. I am bored on vacation throwing out some ideas lol. Anyways good luck to anyone stuck in this position.
Irshalthra Jun 23rd 2008 11:31AM
Just to reiterate, run those instances with the existing 70's. This will not only upgrade your gear, but provide synergy in playing together.
Kara is a must - pug what you need. If you can get the majority of people, then pugging will be easy. Again this will provide experience for the current 70's, take care of the boredom and provide better gear. When your guild is prepared to run you will have over half that are geared well and experienced at it. The others will catch up quicker.
Milktub Jun 23rd 2008 11:29AM
I've never seen such a confusing guild rule as "disregard any dungeon quest and just concentrate on leveling up as fast as possible."
I can see the feeling behind it (can't have a full guild run of Kara with eight 70s), but the gear quality of a toon that's run through Outland as fast as possible without any dungeons is going to be ... well, awful.
Khanmora Jun 23rd 2008 11:31AM
When TBC launched, myself and one other guildie hit the ground running fast and hard. We were clearing SMV while the majority of our guildies were just discovering Terrokar. We have a sister guild and they had a few people who had also leveled quickly so we did a lot of rep grinding and instance running together. This quickly lead to guildies feeling that we weren't spending enough time with them.
If anything I would recommend that you keep everyone involved as much as possible. The more guildmates work together the less likely someone is to feel left out. I think for WotLK I will make sure that I have a back up for what to do when I hit 80 since it will probably be before many of my guildmates (leveling fishing will probably be on that list, ugh) and helping my guildies, most of whom are Pug-phobic, with instance and group quests.
If you are interested in really flying through the leveling don't be shy of pugs, yes some may be utter crap, but the majority are going to be fun and give you people to look up later for help with group quests. Remember we're all back to learning even 5 man encounters when the xpac drops so don't get too disheartened if it seems tough at first (Ramps seemed hellish the first couple of times through!).
Khanmora Jun 23rd 2008 11:32AM
please vote down my double post! Sorry!
Khanmora Jun 23rd 2008 11:32AM
When TBC launched, myself and one other guildie hit the ground running fast and hard. We were clearing SMV while the majority of our guildies were just discovering Terrokar. We have a sister guild and they had a few people who had also leveled quickly so we did a lot of rep grinding and instance running together. This quickly lead to guildies feeling that we weren't spending enough time with them.
If anything I would recommend that you keep everyone involved as much as possible. The more guildmates work together the less likely someone is to feel left out. I think for WotLK I will make sure that I have a back up for what to do when I hit 80 since it will probably be before many of my guildmates (leveling fishing will probably be on that list, ugh) and helping my guildies, most of whom are Pug-phobic, with instance and group quests.
If you are interested in really flying through the leveling don't be shy of pugs, yes some may be utter crap, but the majority are going to be fun and give you people to look up later for help with group quests. Remember we're all back to learning even 5 man encounters when the xpac drops so don't get too disheartened if it seems tough at first (Ramps seemed hellish the first couple of times through!).
Gulbrandt Jun 23rd 2008 11:45AM
I've found that establishing "Pacer Groups" helps a lot. Get a bunch of people at similar levels together, and set a goal to get a certain level by the end of every week. If it's not happening, sometimes you may have to adjust the level up or down. I say do whatever you need to do to get leveled faster. Some classes do it faster through quests, others by instances.
For instances, it is good to do some now and then with a level-appropriate group so everyone learns how to play their class well. Sometimes, having 70s help out is great, too.
PUGS help more than they hurt. Everyone remembers the horror stories, but the PUGs that went anywhere from "acceptable" to "extremely well"l seem to fade from memory much faster. :)
Who knows? If you make a good enough impression on someone, you might find a great guild with similar interests and goals to ally your own with. (I know we work across many different guilds, and just a channel instead of Guild Chat to chit-chat. It works really well, actually.)
rodger Jun 23rd 2008 12:10PM
Setup a guild alliance. I'm sure there are other casual guilds like yours.We had the exact same problem as you. Although we had no rigid rules on who can and cannot help. I think its great that you want members to learn to play their class. however remember that most classes dont get their main specs etc. down till they hit 70. You are really better off helping everyone level and then once they hit 69,70 start doing instances for their tier 3.5 gear. If you have tanks or healers who are getting to 70, make sure you get your experienced members in dps spots. That way the tanks and healers learn to work together and realize what end-game stuff feels like(dont flame me for this). Remind them that wipes are common in the beginning and your there to help them correct their mistakes. Eventually you can stop doing instances altogether and just let your new 70's do it themselves.
And I really am serious about a guild alliance. Don't go for any of the big guilds. Try to find a guild that is similar in size to yours. Hopefully you can find the right mix of people. And eventually your guilds will merge if everything goes like it should.
Another thing to remember is not to burn out your own members. Yes, a raid schedule is required but make sure to not to make it too rigid. For example our guild asks at the beginning of the week, who can and can't make it. If you commit to making it we want you to come at a certain time with every prepared. However if you have a problem in the middle of the week or have a last minute problem, no worries. We try to keep things as casual as we can. And for the most part it works. We occasionally have to pug an extra DPS or healer(when one of our raid members had a last minute cancellation etc) but we are still progressing very fast and doing well.
Also get an addon called GuildAlliance(GA) it helps if you do end up getting one together.
The most important thing to remember is DON'T GET BURNED OUT. If you are constantly wiping on certain bosses in Kara either skip them or leave kara for the week. Don't keep wiping, members will get burned out and not have fun anymore. If your wiping on Curator for example, your not geared enough. If its on morose, look at why?
Anyways good luck and i hope everything goes well.
Bootsanator Jun 23rd 2008 12:22PM
So, I'm not gonna lie, I didn't read the article (too long) or the comments (b/c i didn't read the article).
I'm just posting because Gul'dan FTW (since that's where I live now) :)
But, if you're from Gul'dan, and reading this, what're you doing?? Go do your Roots quest to unlock the alchemy lab on our scrub slow server! :P
jbodar Jun 24th 2008 7:17AM
Dude, this isn't TRL. We don't need shout-outs to your server.
Lannic Jun 23rd 2008 12:49PM
"I was a hunter back then and far from essential to our raiding."
I take personal offense at that statement... :)
Lannic Jun 23rd 2008 12:47PM
"I was a hunter back then and far from essential to our raiding."
I take personal offense to that statement....
Hunter pride!
rodger Jun 23rd 2008 1:26PM
I like hunters. I think they are an essential part of any end-game raiding. Without misdirect and the steady dps of hunters, raids can go very badly. I think what the original statement meant was that, hunters are a dime a dozen. We go into Kara with 2 hunters. There are about 6 level 70 hunters in our guild right now(and 2 more on their way up). We obviously can't go into kara with 5 hunter dps.
Khanmora Jun 23rd 2008 2:18PM
hehehe, we ran Kara last night with two fresh tanks, two experienced healers, one lock, one rogue and 4 hunters. It was interesting to say the least lol.
Tychon Jun 23rd 2008 1:38PM
Are you seriously kidding me? A "Officers Quarters" on leveling? people don't know how to level there character?
I have an easier solution that doesnt require nearly the same amount of space....
Step 1. get a leveling guide (they are free)
Step 2. Follow it
Step 3. profit
If this is wotlk... they will lay out the entire zone in quest hubs, and you will do all the quests in Hub A., with a quest that leads you to Hub B. ect ect, until you reach 80.
Sorry for the rude comment. It just baffles me sometimes that in a game as easy to play as wow, people still can't do it. If you have people in your guild that can not level without the help of a 70 power leveling them through instances, I would up the recruitment efforts.
rick gregory Jun 23rd 2008 1:45PM
Hmm... I agree with the reply from Wowinsider... and the comments. But one more thing - you're casual but you're telling people how to level, whether to do instances, that 70s can't help? That sounds pretty controlling... even if your motivations are good, if someone told me how to level etc my reaction would be to tell them to stuff it.
Here's the thing... encourage people to level fast, but don't make it a job. Don't make leveling something they do because then it will be their job to run kara... this is a GAME. Make it fun. For example, I ran instances for loot, XP... and because it was FUN. Plus, you can't take a bunch of people with little group experience into Kara and succeed... they need to know how to play in a group. And they need the gear... quest greens won't cut it. They will likely need some time to gear up - plan on two weeks or so.
If you want the guild to thrive don't worry so much about Kara. Make it fun, have people run stuff with each other. They'll get to 70. But then... in a few months... you'll have people ready for the run to 80 and you can all level together... and you can raid WotLK.
Rob Jun 23rd 2008 1:51PM
I think the emphasis was on leveling quickly, ie the GL wants people to level quicker so they can get into Kara as a guild. Nothing wrong with that, but there is also nothing wrong with PUGIng kara every week. I did two kara pugs yesterday (two different toons), one was terrible and we didn't get through the horse trash. The second we got Maiden down before i had to leave (2am). So, i'm not sure if the server matters or not, but yeah there is nothing stopping your guild from running the heroics and kara.
Neil Jun 23rd 2008 2:33PM
There is a HUGE difference between being level 70 and being ready for Karazhan. In general, I would say that more than a few greens in your gear and you'll be struggling to keep up in Kara.
Dungeon runs, dungeon quests, and group quests are a MUST for the gear that will make your first ventures into Kara credible.