The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Titan's Grip!

Titan's Grip is confirmed -- dual wielding 2h weapons. Rossi will love that. - Michael Gray from WoW Insider's coverage of the WWI dev panel.
To my mind, the news from the Worldwide Invitational is big enough to push back our discussion of DPS gear for the starter raider. (We most certainly will talk more about it, believe me.) Several statements from the invitational need discussion for us warriors, I think, especially worth considering how they may well change the design philosophy of the class.
Also, yay, Diablo III. It's especially appropriate that we get the news about Titan's Grip on the same day as we get our spiritual forefathers, the barbarian class, back. So, you may ask, what exactly was said about warriors that was interesting?
Warrior
- Wanted to make the class feel more like Warcraft III -- put the Bladestorm Shockwave in, and tweaked Arms and Protection.
- Shockwave will help with Prot damage problem
- Titan's Grip is confirmed -- dual wielding 2h weapons.
But wait, there's more of interest to you warriors in the notes. One thing that jumped out at me was under the Death Knight discussion: "One thing they're talking about is that they don't want to leave the Death Knight in the specific role according to their class -- they don't want to pigeon hole Death Knights by the spec they choose. The speaker plainly said that it's problematic for designers that tanks are forced to either be tank spec or DPS spec -- they want to avoid this restricting dynamic for Death Knights."
What does this all mean for us warrior types? Well, my thoughts are as follows: I sincerely hope that this all means we're looking at a new design philosophy for tank classes. Specifically, I'm hoping we're going to see classes that are able to tank will either be able to do so in almost any spec (with specific survivability enhancements if they choose the dedicated tanking trees, making those the 'raid tanking' choices, and five mans being tankable by any suitably geared tank class indifferent of spec) or that we'll see tanks who spec for tanking able to more effectively grind, solo, quest and even take a DPS role in a group if there is only a need for one tank or if there is a surplus of tanks available for some reason. Basically, I like the idea of them not wanting to pigeonhole tanks as tanks only, I'm just a trifle leery of the implementation.
Especially if they only remember to do this for Death Knights. I do think that the evidence we've seen to date, scant though it is, serves to paint the picture of warriors moving away from rigidly defined roles hemmed in by talent choice and towards a broader system where talents accentuate and support your intended goal for your character. Part of the reason I think this is due to this exchange over the role of Flurry in DPS specs:
"Any plans to make it so warriors don't need to waste 5 talent points to get Flurry for raids?
"We'll see." He acknowledges that the talents pigeonhole warriors, and that they want to be careful not reinforce that. Try to make it so that Death Wish Flurry doesn't turn into dominant raid DPS build. Bladestorm needs to be very attractive for DPS. Titan's grip route is the fury route for DPS, so BS if you're Arms, Titan's Grip if you're Fury. With both viable, the five talent points might not be necessary. They're fine with the flurry points, specifically, though and feels worth it to them. (Crowd is extremely unhappy with that one)"
To my eyes, there's two currents going on in this passage. Yes, the surface level is about Flurry and how it is effectively a 'must have' talent for raid DPS. And I'm a little disappointed that we're still going to be asked to sink five points into it. But I'm much more interested in the idea that warrior talents aren't going to lock you into one role as has been the case. If they deliver on the promise of this statement and the one about tanking above, it could lead to a real renaissance of warrior experimentation with talent specs. I'd like to see fury become much more viable for PvP, arms as a more broadly embraced raid DPS spec (and not just for a Blood Frenzy debuff, but also due to its own DPS), and prot becoming a more expansive talent tree with room for more than just tanking. I've always viewed the protection warrior as a juggernaut who terrifies foes with his relentlessness, shrugging off damage from his thick armor while dealing out powerful blows of his or her own, and I'd love it if the changes coming down the pike help produce just such a warrior. Each tree should strive to exemplify an aspect of the class, with arms being the tree most about the complete mastery of weapons, fury being the berserker archetype, and protection being the super-heavy infantry shrugging off blows from dragons that would shatter a mountain.
There's also news about windfury that's of interest to warriors: specifically, it's now a buff to you, and as such it will work for druids in animal forms, will stack with weapon poisons and weightstones/sharpening stones. "Windfury is a buff, not a weapon enchant. It works with forms and poisons and weapon buffs etc." Obviously this is huge for druid tanks, but for DPS warriors (and even tanking warriors) it means you can now freely slap that weightstone on your tanking weapon and still get the full benefit of windfury. Now, while I'm a little disappointed that windfury totem won't work on both of the 2h weapons I'm going to be dual wielding (Titans Grip Titan's Grip Titans Grip I'm stuck in a Titan's Grip mental loop Titan's Grip) but it's still a nice change. Add the idea of raid-wide totems and the combined SoE/GoA totem, and you could easily have a DPS warrior boom.
In general, I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm hoping we'll see a nice balance between the progress made in The Burning Crusade and a redress of some of the flaws that came with that expansion. Before the Dark Portal opened, protection spec was a somewhat sorry specimen, usually only really delved deeply by dedicated main tanks. A great many raid MT's went with a 31/5/15 or 5/31/15 spec to pick up defiance and some other prot goodies while remaining capable of burst DPS. I'll generally admit that it was a good move to make protection more necessary for dedicated tanking, but I'd argue that the pendulum swung a little too far in that regard (Rage Normalization was very poorly thought out and implemented, in my opinion) and it will be nice to see tanking viability restored to the other trees, if they can do so without gutting protection of its necessary dedicated tanking utility and add some bite to the tree. I'm really hoping that talent choice will be less a straightjacket and more an aid to your gameplay for the warriors out there, The liveblog indicates that there's thought going towards improving protection DPS and making other specs viable for tanking, so we'll see.
Edited to add: wow, this will be huge for warriors.: We are working on a plan to give players access to two Talent specs. More details in the future. Taken from the liveblog, and man, if this goes live you're probably looking at the end of the tank shortage right there. Access to a full prot spec and a DPS spec? Yeah, I'll tank for you. Let me go resp... okay, done. Let's go.
I'm also really hoping I get to tank with a Soul Cleaver in my giddy mitts. Preferably one with windfury and a sharpening stone. Will Wrath see the return of Arms and Fury/Prot hybrids? Sadly, I am not actually psychic, I'm more the 'busted clock' kind of prognosticator. But man, I can't wait to find out.
Next time, DPS gear again. And a discussion of why warriors want to DPS at all, and why they should.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Expansions, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors, Wrath of the Lich King, Worldwide Invitational






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Matthew Rossi Jun 28th 2008 3:08PM
Titan's Grip! (Sorry. I'm very excited.)
Kathoz Jun 28th 2008 3:28PM
Titan's Grip!
I've wanted that freaking talent since I saw it in leaked Alpha Info.
Currently, dual wielding something like Stormherald/Gorehowl would already net a pretty big increase in DPS compared to the best one-hand weapons, not counting added stats and imba Whirlwinds. I guess the issue here would be inconsistent rage, which may mean having to use a one-hand weapon as offhand till you get good enough gear to maintain rage.
Anyhow, I love that talent and I can't understand people who are saying it's bad because it's not realistic, etc - guys, this is the Warcraft universe, it was never meant to be realistic.
brucimus Jun 28th 2008 3:28PM
I thought DK's are supposed to be able to "tank" caster types...not physical. Kinda how Warlocks function in the Leo fight
slimj091 Jun 28th 2008 3:29PM
TITAN'S GRIP! (i'm more excited than you :P)
what i'm most excited about is that i finally feel vindicated because everyone of my friends i told titans's grip about to called me everything from an out right liar, to extremely gulible that i would believe anything as dumb as that sounded to them.
IN YOUR FREAKING FACES EVERYONE I KNOW IN GAME! :D
slimj091 Jun 28th 2008 3:32PM
"I thought DK's are supposed to be able to "tank" caster types...not physical. Kinda how Warlocks function in the Leo fight"
they said that DK's will shine as caster tanks.. they didnt say that that is all that DK's will be able to tank. same as paladins shine as multiple pull tanks, or as druids in brute force tanking. that doesnt mean that warriors can't tank multiple pulls, or that paladins can't tank single mob encounters.
Ikarus Jun 30th 2008 2:20PM
ugh, I mean this sounds cool for you warriors, but what about us clothies? This looks like it could be devastating to us. Thoughts?
dan Jun 28th 2008 3:13PM
If you look at the dk talent trees there are literally tanking abilities in each tree (frost obviously as intended but also blood and unholy)... some quite deep in each of the trees. Looking at that it seems clear that they want each flavor of DK to be able to tank such that no dk player can shirk that responsibility.
The warr trees don't really have that same issue or design. I don't think we're going to see the return of deep tri-specs or shallow prot specs. Frankly I think the shift we saw in tbc was the right way to go.
dan Jun 28th 2008 3:16PM
Let me clarify that tho:
While I don't think we'll see that in the talent trees I do think we'll see some arms/fury tanking viability with changes to gear and baselines and tweaks to stances. People used to spec enough in prot to get defiance back in the day... now that's part of the defensive stance baseline. Arms/fury guys will still have to slap on a shield to pull off tanking and that's ok.
dan Jun 28th 2008 3:24PM
...but I do think we'll see people try to make them work. You're right that there will be a lot of experimentation to see what works and what doesn't. I just tinkered with some trees and there could very well be a new dawn of the x/x/15 prot flavor (shield spec, anticipation, and toughness this time out). I guess I'm putting my own blinders on... I really didn't like how useless the prot tree was in vanilla. I found it offensive really.
Matthew Rossi Jun 28th 2008 4:31PM
As a prot warrior on my main, I don't disagree with you. But I think it went a *little* too far towards reducing 5 man tanking viability for non prot builds. Just a little.
dan Jun 28th 2008 4:37PM
It totally did. And I think that's ok too because frankly the people specced perma dps don't want to tank. It's not fair to force them into the role. Where it became a big problem for some was in the impact that had on tank solo farming and questing. The dps fixes are there to help mitigate that.
doogals213 Jun 28th 2008 3:22PM
i could see putting some dps into the prot talents or increasing the tanking viability of a non-prot warrior but i dont know if blizzard will only make things more difficult on finding quality tanks.
that being said...wouldnt mind seeing this love spread to prot pallies as well
Michael Jun 28th 2008 3:30PM
So, they're planning on giving us interchangeable specs AND they want to give DPS warriors more of an ability to tank and tanks more of an ability to DPS...
At what cost, I wonder? I can see the QQ now, "But they don't have to respec to tank and do teh deeps!!11!1"; getting our DPS *and* our tanking ability "normalized" to be more in line with, say, feral druids (since now WE can do both with one spec as well as they've been able to for ages now) would be utter crap.
If I want to DPS, I'll use a proper DPS spec and actually DO DAMAGE... If I want to tank, I'll go spec for tanking. Taking us back to the "glory days" of Molten Core and muddled arms/fury/prot "hybrid" specs isn't as great as they're trying to make it sound.
furyforlife Jun 28th 2008 3:32PM
ive been looking into the projected talent trees and there seems to be an interesting arms fury build that would have both 2h weapon spec and flurry with titans grip, if that would be possible that would be unbelievable dps potential.
Michael Jun 28th 2008 3:46PM
The only problem with that is rage generation. Can you imagine a miss / non-crit streak when you're only swinging every 4 seconds? =/
furyforlife Jun 28th 2008 3:55PM
it may play more into the possibility of having one massive 2h and another one hand "fast" OH to balance rage generation or the 20% reduction in attack time from 5/5 titans grip, taking a 3.8 to a 2.85 and the implication of haste gear having a 3.8 mh and say 1.5 oh, you have the constant rage from fast oh and the massive non missing (rage capped hopefully) yellows
CH1CKEN Jun 28th 2008 4:06PM
Titan's Grip! More dps for prots - Shockwave! Bladestorm! WF and combined GoA/SoE totems. Shouts and totems for whole raid! This is going to became very interesting expansion ;P
And also 2 specs u can switch between xD
I just can't imagine that!
PS. Titan's Grip was in alpha TBC as arms 41 point talent
darkra Jun 28th 2008 5:04PM
I'd like to voice my concern about warrior tanking viability in high end raiding.
I can't deny Burning Crusade gave us warrior tanks a lot of goodies: decreased magic damage taken, thunderclap in defensive stance and most of all a damaging ability to spam. All great stuff.
But it also had two major drawbacks:
1. Warrior tanks were all forced into a very strict and inflexible spec, with devastate being such an absolute must. Gone are the days of the hybrid fury/prot main tanks.
2. We got a lot. But others got more. And I talk of course for our furry friends, the Druids. Been secondrate offtanks at best for raids preBC, they now are equal to a warrior in every respect. Some would say, they are way better. They get more or less the same damage, they can create threat more consistently since they don't get as rage starved as warriors as their gear increases, and they got the bonus of been able to shift to a dpser when he doesn't need to tank and of course to combat res...
The only real advantage warrior tanks have are our many "oh shit" buttons, but seeing the so far leaked WotLK skills and talents my concerns only increase.
Druids get magic damage reduction, a thunderclap for casters AND a Last Stand combined with Bestial Wrath... We get some help to combat our rage starvation and an improved thunderclap combined with a Tauren stomp... which is great for 5mans, but what about maintanking?
Already the whole BT and Sunwell requires only 1 protection warrior, and that's just for bosses that require shield block/reflect... I'm afraid thst unless something changes WotLK might really signify the end of warrior tanks in endgame raiding, as they'll feel more and more like dead weight.
shinken Jun 28th 2008 6:46PM
You have three top tier specs. Your itemization is the best in the game. You scale incredibly well.
Warriors thought after the rage nerf and the druid buffs
they were through...
You are guaranteed atleast two legendaries per xpac
Also about your tank comment: There are limited tank spots. Hopefully Blizz makes every tank like druids and able to do dps and OT when needed.
Dimebagg Jun 28th 2008 7:08PM
TITANS GRIP!
now my reroll from ret pally to warrior is official >:DDD