The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Titan's Grip!

Titan's Grip is confirmed -- dual wielding 2h weapons. Rossi will love that. - Michael Gray from WoW Insider's coverage of the WWI dev panel.
To my mind, the news from the Worldwide Invitational is big enough to push back our discussion of DPS gear for the starter raider. (We most certainly will talk more about it, believe me.) Several statements from the invitational need discussion for us warriors, I think, especially worth considering how they may well change the design philosophy of the class.
Also, yay, Diablo III. It's especially appropriate that we get the news about Titan's Grip on the same day as we get our spiritual forefathers, the barbarian class, back. So, you may ask, what exactly was said about warriors that was interesting?
Warrior
- Wanted to make the class feel more like Warcraft III -- put the Bladestorm Shockwave in, and tweaked Arms and Protection.
- Shockwave will help with Prot damage problem
- Titan's Grip is confirmed -- dual wielding 2h weapons.
But wait, there's more of interest to you warriors in the notes. One thing that jumped out at me was under the Death Knight discussion: "One thing they're talking about is that they don't want to leave the Death Knight in the specific role according to their class -- they don't want to pigeon hole Death Knights by the spec they choose. The speaker plainly said that it's problematic for designers that tanks are forced to either be tank spec or DPS spec -- they want to avoid this restricting dynamic for Death Knights."
What does this all mean for us warrior types? Well, my thoughts are as follows: I sincerely hope that this all means we're looking at a new design philosophy for tank classes. Specifically, I'm hoping we're going to see classes that are able to tank will either be able to do so in almost any spec (with specific survivability enhancements if they choose the dedicated tanking trees, making those the 'raid tanking' choices, and five mans being tankable by any suitably geared tank class indifferent of spec) or that we'll see tanks who spec for tanking able to more effectively grind, solo, quest and even take a DPS role in a group if there is only a need for one tank or if there is a surplus of tanks available for some reason. Basically, I like the idea of them not wanting to pigeonhole tanks as tanks only, I'm just a trifle leery of the implementation.
Especially if they only remember to do this for Death Knights. I do think that the evidence we've seen to date, scant though it is, serves to paint the picture of warriors moving away from rigidly defined roles hemmed in by talent choice and towards a broader system where talents accentuate and support your intended goal for your character. Part of the reason I think this is due to this exchange over the role of Flurry in DPS specs:
"Any plans to make it so warriors don't need to waste 5 talent points to get Flurry for raids?
"We'll see." He acknowledges that the talents pigeonhole warriors, and that they want to be careful not reinforce that. Try to make it so that Death Wish Flurry doesn't turn into dominant raid DPS build. Bladestorm needs to be very attractive for DPS. Titan's grip route is the fury route for DPS, so BS if you're Arms, Titan's Grip if you're Fury. With both viable, the five talent points might not be necessary. They're fine with the flurry points, specifically, though and feels worth it to them. (Crowd is extremely unhappy with that one)"
To my eyes, there's two currents going on in this passage. Yes, the surface level is about Flurry and how it is effectively a 'must have' talent for raid DPS. And I'm a little disappointed that we're still going to be asked to sink five points into it. But I'm much more interested in the idea that warrior talents aren't going to lock you into one role as has been the case. If they deliver on the promise of this statement and the one about tanking above, it could lead to a real renaissance of warrior experimentation with talent specs. I'd like to see fury become much more viable for PvP, arms as a more broadly embraced raid DPS spec (and not just for a Blood Frenzy debuff, but also due to its own DPS), and prot becoming a more expansive talent tree with room for more than just tanking. I've always viewed the protection warrior as a juggernaut who terrifies foes with his relentlessness, shrugging off damage from his thick armor while dealing out powerful blows of his or her own, and I'd love it if the changes coming down the pike help produce just such a warrior. Each tree should strive to exemplify an aspect of the class, with arms being the tree most about the complete mastery of weapons, fury being the berserker archetype, and protection being the super-heavy infantry shrugging off blows from dragons that would shatter a mountain.
There's also news about windfury that's of interest to warriors: specifically, it's now a buff to you, and as such it will work for druids in animal forms, will stack with weapon poisons and weightstones/sharpening stones. "Windfury is a buff, not a weapon enchant. It works with forms and poisons and weapon buffs etc." Obviously this is huge for druid tanks, but for DPS warriors (and even tanking warriors) it means you can now freely slap that weightstone on your tanking weapon and still get the full benefit of windfury. Now, while I'm a little disappointed that windfury totem won't work on both of the 2h weapons I'm going to be dual wielding (Titans Grip Titan's Grip Titans Grip I'm stuck in a Titan's Grip mental loop Titan's Grip) but it's still a nice change. Add the idea of raid-wide totems and the combined SoE/GoA totem, and you could easily have a DPS warrior boom.
In general, I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm hoping we'll see a nice balance between the progress made in The Burning Crusade and a redress of some of the flaws that came with that expansion. Before the Dark Portal opened, protection spec was a somewhat sorry specimen, usually only really delved deeply by dedicated main tanks. A great many raid MT's went with a 31/5/15 or 5/31/15 spec to pick up defiance and some other prot goodies while remaining capable of burst DPS. I'll generally admit that it was a good move to make protection more necessary for dedicated tanking, but I'd argue that the pendulum swung a little too far in that regard (Rage Normalization was very poorly thought out and implemented, in my opinion) and it will be nice to see tanking viability restored to the other trees, if they can do so without gutting protection of its necessary dedicated tanking utility and add some bite to the tree. I'm really hoping that talent choice will be less a straightjacket and more an aid to your gameplay for the warriors out there, The liveblog indicates that there's thought going towards improving protection DPS and making other specs viable for tanking, so we'll see.
Edited to add: wow, this will be huge for warriors.: We are working on a plan to give players access to two Talent specs. More details in the future. Taken from the liveblog, and man, if this goes live you're probably looking at the end of the tank shortage right there. Access to a full prot spec and a DPS spec? Yeah, I'll tank for you. Let me go resp... okay, done. Let's go.
I'm also really hoping I get to tank with a Soul Cleaver in my giddy mitts. Preferably one with windfury and a sharpening stone. Will Wrath see the return of Arms and Fury/Prot hybrids? Sadly, I am not actually psychic, I'm more the 'busted clock' kind of prognosticator. But man, I can't wait to find out.
Next time, DPS gear again. And a discussion of why warriors want to DPS at all, and why they should.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Expansions, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors, Wrath of the Lich King, Worldwide Invitational
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
ifalldownstairs Jul 1st 2008 4:34PM
yeah ret pallys are screwed in WotLK. My only 70 is a ret pally and the way things are going death knights and warriors are going to absolutely rape ret pallys.
shinken Jun 28th 2008 6:40PM
They need to scale down warrior dps at high levels.
they out dps'd mages in SW. If they make prot have much more dps, then they need to allow druids weapon enchants and pots.
A prot warrior in dps gear at high levels can about out dps a full dps druid.
BTW the rage normalization was sorely needed.
Matthew Rossi Jun 28th 2008 7:35PM
The way rage normalization was implemented was poor. It starved up and coming tanks for rage without impacting DPS warriors much at all.
The rest of what you said comes down to opinion.
Aex Jun 28th 2008 9:00PM
So wait... Let me get this straight... They are going to make it easier for classes to get out of melee ranged attackers.... yet not give us warriors anything new to get back into range?
/sigh
Alex Jun 28th 2008 9:24PM
What do you call Bladestorm and Heroic Leap then?
Aex Jun 28th 2008 10:27PM
I don't see any mention of Heroic Leap in the article above...
And Bladestorm, I'm not really sure how that is going to work, and there is no mention of how it will in the article either. If it works effectively as a charge + whirlwind, then I guess my sigh was in vain :P But that feels like I'm hoping for a little much...
StoNe Jun 28th 2008 9:15PM
Couldn't care less about any of this info..titans grip...whatever!
One thing caught my eye, to a prot war like me....I like this...
"We are working on a plan to give players access to two Talent specs. More details in the future"
Gogogog, Fury/Prot spec
Karl Gallagher Jun 28th 2008 9:49PM
Agreed. Dual-wielding 2-handers means nothing to me.
Let me have two shields at once. That'll make me a happy tank.
FormerCustomer Jun 28th 2008 10:09PM
“And a discussion of why warriors want to DPS at all, and why they should.”
I agree that warriors should be able to DPS, I also think that Dire bear form should as well, since it is meant to mimic warriors.
The last expansion attempted to facilitate this notion, yet it was the warrior community who flooded the official forums with QQ posts about bears doing DPS until blizzard bent bears over and nerfed away feral’s short lived PvP viability.
Now that the warriors may be getting more than one PvP spec in the next expansion it will be interesting to see what arguments they will use to complain about other classes being viable to do more than just heal bot for warriors in PvP and still be successful.
Friday_Knight Jun 29th 2008 4:48PM
Warriors can DPS. Fury is pure win as far as DPS goes. Arms takes a bit of a hit but gains a hell of a lot of utility for the little DPS it sacrifices. And seriously with a big enough 2 hander you don't really sacrifice much.
I'm hoping that fury gets some pvp viability back, cuz it sure as hell doesn't have any now. Resilience really kinda kills fury warriors in pvp since we basically are waiting for a crit to get going. A crit that just sometimes never happens.
Tolantus Jun 28th 2008 11:29PM
Titan's Grip is cool, to be sure, and so is Bladestorm.
But with Imp Slam 20points into the Fury tree still, will 2h DPS warriors still use builds similar to the 33/28 MS Slam build in order to have Imp Slam.
I would hate to have to pick between Bladestorm or a 1.5 sec cast Slam.
Pavid Jun 29th 2008 2:08AM
To be honest I'm not all that excited about the new talents. Being able to dual wield 2handers is very cool but it's still a passive ability. It seems like almost all the new talents are just more passive abilities just like it was with the new abilites we got in TBC. I'm extremely bored with spamming mortal strike, sunder and bloodthirst for 3 years.
We need something cool like a pet or even a heal like a combat bandage ability that allows us to repair our wounds without the use of magic while being attacked. Basically an uninterruptable bandage or something that doesn't share a cooldown with normal bandages.
I want to see a little bit more independence for our class and a less reliability on a healbot to follow us around. We need non-magical ways to remove snares and keep ourselves alive. And I really want a cool warrior pet like a miniature corehound with lava dripping from its mouth and everything. And some kind of ranged attack would be nice. Like "hurl weapon" or something.
Now that would be badass.
Adam R Jun 29th 2008 2:55PM
I hear godmode is at level 81. I guess we'll have to wait.
Friday_Knight Jun 29th 2008 4:42PM
Titan's Grip!
As a dedicated fury warrior this confirmation makes me positively giddy.
Shinken you sound like the common complaining feral druid. I share your frustration to a degree. Fury warriors really get short shrift. I'm continuously infuriated (no pun intended) at how people say some drops (like Warglaives) should be given strictly to "real" dps classes like rogues and never given to a fury warrior. Don't worry about the fact that I out-DPS any rogue WHILE buffing them.
The DPS warrior is most crippled by their lack of traditional CC. I say "traditional" because, as I tell most of the noobs I PUG with, warriors actually have the best CC in the game: DEATH.
Pauly_K Jun 29th 2008 9:10PM
You horribly misunderstood the thing about putting 5 points in flurry. What they're talking about is the 5-point *prerequisite* talent. There's absolutely nothing broken or "lame" about putting the 5 points into flurry itself... duh. That's how talents work. You have to put points in them to get the benefit. Same thing for every talent whether it's strong or weak. What warriors whine about is the fact that flurry is basically a 10 point talent because the prerequisite is effectively pvp-only.
I personally don't care one way or the other. Not like there aren't several other bad-prereq talents out there. Off the top of my head, the druid HotW talent used to be one until a recent alpha leak made its prereq scale. And it's also not like costing more than 5 points makes a talent worthless. As long as the resulting class is appropriately balanced ie putting out the right amount of dps, making the talent 5 points cheaper would just mean the class in question would have to have its raid dps lowered by the equivalent of 5 talent points to compensate.
But LLLLLLLLLLLLLoLLLLLLLL @ your "disappointment" at being asked to sink 5 talent points into flurry itself to get flurry. GOD FORBID!!!
astromoose Jun 30th 2008 6:20AM
Titan's grip sounds awesome - although as a prot warrior, I wish I could wield a 2H weapon with one hand and a shield in the other, D2 Barb style. :(
BWarner Jul 1st 2008 11:33AM
I'm sorry. I sorely want to make an intelligent, informed, and productively insightful comment.
But with the multitude of possibilities swirling around in my mind... that may take a few days to sort out.
With that said:
LUST. DROOL. PANT.
That is all.
Ditan Jul 2nd 2008 2:36AM
yeah titans grip does sound pretty badass :D. Though i hope i cannot smell a nerf or 'catch 22' for whirlwinds and this titans grip i mean.. two 2handers both hitting for upwards of 2k plus your usual deathwish + mortal strike and if your lucky at the same time with a cleave with sweeping strikes active.. could leave a pair of fecal stained pants on the arena floor.
also i am a bit confused about this bladestorm.. is bladestorm the skill used in warcraft3 with the blademasters how you can move around as per normal but spinning and doing aoe dmg as you went for a short while.. OR is it the Diablo 2 skill used by barbarians zooming from point a. to point b. whilst doing aoe dmg to all those he just so happened to zoom past at the time? i would prefer the blademasters way of doing things personally :p
Killhog Jul 5th 2008 12:48AM
Ok, this sounds awesome for you warrior types. But what about us rogues? Will our DPS go signifigantly down compared to fury warriors, as you get the nuclear bomg and we get the hand grenade?
jawj Jul 9th 2008 5:40AM
i cried a little when i read that whole thing...
i just started playing WoW and made a warrior and JUST hit level 70...
now, after all that, i won't have to regret anything...
*sob*
im soo happy
TITAN'S GRIP!
i've wanted that for EVER
i've seen it done in other games like baldur's gate
and the results have been extreme
but...
the speed is going to be a problem.
BUT I'M SO HAPPY =*D