WWI '08 Panel Analysis: PvP part III, Northrend Battleground and Q&A

The new Battleground will have a Titan theme, with majestic architecture on an island located off the coast of Dragonblight. Because most of Northrend is based on Titan lore, the new Battleground capitalizes on the theme. Assaulting players will start the game on boats on the shore, while defenders will likely spawn from the uphill keep. Similar to Lake Wintergrasp, the Northrend Battleground will have destructible buildings and siege vehicles.

Blizzard plans for the Battleground to have ten or fifteen players per side, with the map very close in size to Arathi Basin, Eye of the Storm, or Warsong Gulch. They plan to throw up the gameplay by having a side defend for one part of the battle and then attack during another. Players will need to break down walls using siege weapons, with key capture points past each set of walls allowing access to more siege vehicles.
The map design is unlike previous Battleground maps which were mostly symmetrical. The Northrend Battleground is uni-directional, oriented towards one goal that players must assault or protect -- presumably the red dot on the upper right hand corner of the illustration below. From what we can see, there seem to be three graveyards across the map, with a hotly contested central graveyard that can turn the tide of battle. Flags appear to be capture points while there appear to be three existing siege weapons.

Blizzard revealed that the map is currently undergoing playtesting, which could mean that it is the most far along in development. Since siege weapons in Lake Wintergrasp also seem to be the most developed, playtesting the Battleground at this point certainly involves them. It's an interesting map, to say the least, and I'm not sure how the game will reverse the roles of attackers and defenders. But the terrain itself is a challenge... for attackers, it's all uphill, while defenders will have an easier time looking downwards.
The verdict
This looks like Blizzard's most dynamic instanced Battleground to date, not only with the addition of destructible buildings and siege vehicles, but because of a uni-directional orientation. Presumably, players won't know which side they'll be on when they zone into the Battleground, necessitating an adjustment each time. The learning curve can be tricky, specially if players keep getting the same side (offense or defense) several times in a row. There's still too little information to judge, but the map already seems exciting from what we've seen.
Defenders can't turtle when there are capture points across the map that allow access to presumably stronger siege weapons which can break the turtling. The central graveyard grants a strategic advantage that there's likely to be lots of combat in the central area, but enough points of interest to make it hard to defend all of them. There can be no races because those on defense have nothing to race to. It's a very unique dynamic unlike anything we've seen in Battlegrounds so far... each side has different goals. This asymmetry looks like it could work. My only concern is the length of time games will take, considering the added complexity of siege warfare. Hopefully we'll see this Battleground in play, whether though Beta or a trailer, soon.
The Q&A
There weren't very many questions that got through, considering the length at which Chilton and Stockton discussed Lake Wintergrasp, the new Arena maps, and the Northrend Battleground. Coupled with French translation, only a few interesting points were raised... and none of them about Arena class balance.
One of the concerns was how Alterac Valley was giving more Honor than other Battlegrounds (as the questioner put it, other Battlegrounds were played mainly for Marks of Honor) and how Blizzard planned to address this. Chilton seemed to misinterpret the question (deliberately, perhaps?) and talks non-sequitur about the AFK reporting system. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem as though Blizzard will increase the Honor gains from other Battlegrounds to balance Alterac Valley's Honor-per-minute output. AV remains the most efficient Honor-farming ground with no changes on the horizon.
An interesting question came from a couple that ground to High Warlord together (and hit Rank 14 the same day!), asking when they would be "free to play Battlegrounds." They were asking, in essence, if they will be forced to play Arenas just to get gear. With the new personal ratings requirements in place, even Honor-bought gear from Season 4, require participation in the Arenas. Chilton's unsympathetic (though not verbatim) answer was, no, you have to play Arenas. If you just want to play Battlegrounds, settle for the neckpiece and bracers.
This seems to be a trend in Blizzard's itemization philosophy. The best gear will come from Arenas. This is going to be detrimental in the long run as players are pigeon-holed into playing a form of PvP that isn't necessarily enjoyable to them. Players who wish to only participate in the Battlegrounds must wait for the current season's gear to devalue over the course of almost a year before being able to purchase them. How this bodes for the non-instanced Lake Wintergrasp remains to be seen. Hopefully, the Wintergrasp rewards are compelling and substantial -- even upgraded over time similar to Arena seasons -- in order to encourage participation.
The verdict
At the moment, Blizzard's focus seems to be on the PvP environments, rather than the participants themselves. This isn't to say they're not looking into it, however. New talents given to some classes such as the Priest's Dispersion, for example, indicate that they see a problem and are taking steps to fix it. PvP balance has always been a concern for Blizzard, particularly now that they're so enamored with Arenas. I am optimistic that Blizzard will address class and spec balance in time. Right now, I think, the developers are having fun with things that make other things go boom.
Read about Zach's analysis on the Lake Wintergrasp and new Arena maps discussions!
WoW Insider is on the ground in Paris at the Blizzard Invitational bringing you the big announcements and latest Wrath news as it happens. Check out our latest coverage!


The verdict
This looks like Blizzard's most dynamic instanced Battleground to date, not only with the addition of destructible buildings and siege vehicles, but because of a uni-directional orientation. Presumably, players won't know which side they'll be on when they zone into the Battleground, necessitating an adjustment each time. The learning curve can be tricky, specially if players keep getting the same side (offense or defense) several times in a row. There's still too little information to judge, but the map already seems exciting from what we've seen.
Defenders can't turtle when there are capture points across the map that allow access to presumably stronger siege weapons which can break the turtling. The central graveyard grants a strategic advantage that there's likely to be lots of combat in the central area, but enough points of interest to make it hard to defend all of them. There can be no races because those on defense have nothing to race to. It's a very unique dynamic unlike anything we've seen in Battlegrounds so far... each side has different goals. This asymmetry looks like it could work. My only concern is the length of time games will take, considering the added complexity of siege warfare. Hopefully we'll see this Battleground in play, whether though Beta or a trailer, soon.
The Q&A
There weren't very many questions that got through, considering the length at which Chilton and Stockton discussed Lake Wintergrasp, the new Arena maps, and the Northrend Battleground. Coupled with French translation, only a few interesting points were raised... and none of them about Arena class balance.
One of the concerns was how Alterac Valley was giving more Honor than other Battlegrounds (as the questioner put it, other Battlegrounds were played mainly for Marks of Honor) and how Blizzard planned to address this. Chilton seemed to misinterpret the question (deliberately, perhaps?) and talks non-sequitur about the AFK reporting system. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem as though Blizzard will increase the Honor gains from other Battlegrounds to balance Alterac Valley's Honor-per-minute output. AV remains the most efficient Honor-farming ground with no changes on the horizon.
An interesting question came from a couple that ground to High Warlord together (and hit Rank 14 the same day!), asking when they would be "free to play Battlegrounds." They were asking, in essence, if they will be forced to play Arenas just to get gear. With the new personal ratings requirements in place, even Honor-bought gear from Season 4, require participation in the Arenas. Chilton's unsympathetic (though not verbatim) answer was, no, you have to play Arenas. If you just want to play Battlegrounds, settle for the neckpiece and bracers.
This seems to be a trend in Blizzard's itemization philosophy. The best gear will come from Arenas. This is going to be detrimental in the long run as players are pigeon-holed into playing a form of PvP that isn't necessarily enjoyable to them. Players who wish to only participate in the Battlegrounds must wait for the current season's gear to devalue over the course of almost a year before being able to purchase them. How this bodes for the non-instanced Lake Wintergrasp remains to be seen. Hopefully, the Wintergrasp rewards are compelling and substantial -- even upgraded over time similar to Arena seasons -- in order to encourage participation.
The verdict
At the moment, Blizzard's focus seems to be on the PvP environments, rather than the participants themselves. This isn't to say they're not looking into it, however. New talents given to some classes such as the Priest's Dispersion, for example, indicate that they see a problem and are taking steps to fix it. PvP balance has always been a concern for Blizzard, particularly now that they're so enamored with Arenas. I am optimistic that Blizzard will address class and spec balance in time. Right now, I think, the developers are having fun with things that make other things go boom.
Read about Zach's analysis on the Lake Wintergrasp and new Arena maps discussions!
WoW Insider is on the ground in Paris at the Blizzard Invitational bringing you the big announcements and latest Wrath news as it happens. Check out our latest coverage!Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Battlegrounds, Worldwide Invitational






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Elmo Jun 30th 2008 10:37AM
it seems a bit more like Battlefield's conquest tbh
take over camps 'till you have 'em all and all enemies are dead or get the points of the enemy to 0
defenders defend untill the attackers have 0 points.
Eternalpayn Jun 30th 2008 10:48AM
That's what AB is. Has anyone heard of or played Frontline: Fuel of War or whatever that is? I read about it a while back, and this seems similar. However, it's also similar to many FPS game modes, including Timesplitters 2's Assault Mode, which was ripped off of another game if I remember right.
Elmo Jun 30th 2008 10:39AM
in fact looking at that map topdown it's similar to the Omaha Beach map from BF1942
Markymark Jun 30th 2008 10:52AM
Lol It looks like we have to storm the beaches of Normandy.
CursedSeishi Jun 30th 2008 11:01AM
"Is that an Orcish Hitler dancing atop that hill?"
I was thinking the same thing. Greaaat, another beach I have to storm lol.
mckwa Jul 1st 2008 11:37AM
haha exactly what i thought
Jason Jun 30th 2008 10:50AM
The concept reminds me of Halo. Seems like it could be alot of fun.
I do however wonder how reliant players, both in Wintergrasp and this battleground, will be on siege vehicles. If it is turns out to be nothing more than vehicles vs. vehicles, where everyone desperately tries to fit into a vehicle, I foresee problems.. Although pointless to conclude anything at this moment I guess.
pudds Jun 30th 2008 10:52AM
The game style seems very much like the "Assault" option from Unreal Tournament.
For a game like that to work, I'd expect it to be time-based. I can see two options:
1) Same as the original UT: Team 1 attacks and is timed until they succeed or time runs out (15 minutes, IIRC). Teams them reverse positions, and Team 2 attacks. Team 1 wins if they can hold longer than Team 2; Team 2 wins if they can score soon than Team 1. If both teams failed to score in the max time, it was a draw.
2) With no switching, it seems logical it would be purely time based. A fixed timer would count down (say 15-30 minutes), and Team 1 would win if they scored, Team 2 would win if they defended for full time.
Either of those is very appealing to me...its possible though that there won't be a timer at all, but from my viewpoint, I'm not sure how that could work.
pudds Jun 30th 2008 10:55AM
Oh, and Arena requirements on gear that requires honor still sucks ass. F*%& you, Tom.
Nati Jun 30th 2008 10:58AM
We were told MONTHS ago the new battleground would be a D-Day style invasion scenario, I don't understand how so many could've missed that.
Anyway, they will most likely release the DotA-style battleground later on in WotLK's lifecycle to appease those wanting more PvP content in content patches.
Charlie Jul 1st 2008 1:59PM
Possibly, i think this map makes sense, if you are already developing seige weapons in lake wintergrasp, why don't you use them in the BG?
DotA is cool, but dota also starts with no gear imbalances. Imagine having someone start out with a Eul's or a cranium basher while you have nothing. You're screwed. Thats the problem WoW faces w/ a dota style battleground. As blizzard shown they aren't to keen on balancing everyones gear for arena on the live realms (thats live, not tournament)
vex Jun 30th 2008 11:03AM
"At the moment, Blizzard's focus seems to be on the PvP environments, rather than the participants themselves." Zach said it all right there.
David Bowers Jun 30th 2008 11:06AM
Regarding Chilton's comments about having to play Arenas as well as battlegrounds to get good gear, you can look at it in the reverse way too. You have to play the battlegrounds too, in order to fill out spots that arena items can't provide.
I think it has to do with Blizzard's overall philosophy of rewarding players for interacting in all aspects of the game together. They want as many people as possible to raid, do battlegrounds and arenas too, and reward them for doing all of these together. People who only like one or the other don't have to do anything other than that of course, but the system shouldn't naturally reward them for closeting themselves in just one activity.
Mullinator Jun 30th 2008 11:14AM
That would be fine if it didn't mean almost everything came from one source like it does with the arena in PvP.
If I want to play battlegrounds then the arena should be there to fill out a few empty slots. If I want to play the arena then battlegrounds should be there to fill out a few empty slots.
Right now the arena is really the only source of PvP gear which really angers a lot of people. This game is founded on the faction warfare that evolved from three previous Warcraft games. Yet here is Blizzard throwing that all away.
mk Jun 30th 2008 12:54PM
agreed with commenter above. it's good to know that there are others like me who love bg's and can't stand arenas. it's a shame we have to suffer through those boring arena games to get the gear to have fun in bg's.
Ircasha Jun 30th 2008 1:04PM
Rewarding players who participate in all modes of play is one thing. Forcing players to participate in a mode of play to be effective in another mode of play is annoying, at best.
I dislike Arenas. No biggie, it's a personal preference. To require me to have arena ratings to get honor gear is an attempt to force me to participate in a mode of play I do not enjoy.
Both Arenas and the BGs should have gear sets unique to their players. If Blizzard wants Arena gear to be better, then fine, give Arena gear an edge.
It would be a better idea for them to have some of the gear for BGs to have interesting benefits that would apply to an Arena style of play and vice versa for Arena gear.
The point would be to entice players to try other modes of play with the carrot of gear enhancements, not require them to play something they dislike in order to be competitive in a mode of play they enjoy.
This cuts in both directions. It must be equally annoying to people who love Arenas to force them to play the BGs in order to fill out their gear.
Roboticus Jun 30th 2008 1:20PM
I think David is right here.
The argument that one should be able to choose how they participate in PvP, and therefore shouldn't have to do arenas to get pvp gear if they don't want to, also holds in the reverse (if it holds at all). I greatly dislike BGs and love my arena, yet I am forced to do BGs for the 6 honor pieces. Shouldn't I also be able to choose how I pvp and therefore buy ALL my pvp gear with arena points?
David Bowers Jun 30th 2008 1:23PM
Arenas are the source of the best 5-piece sets for PvP, not the *only* source of PvP gear. The best belts, boots, bracers, rings and neckpieces, all come from honor -- that's 5 pieces too. They're just not as flashy and instantly recognizable as the arena gear, so... maybe it feels like they don't count or something? Gear for the head, shoulders, chest, gloves, and leggings are also available through honor, but it's just not the very very best gear.
So what's the point here? You expect honor and arenas both to supply the very best gear for all slots? There should be no difference whatsoever? People shouldn't have any encouragement to excel in multiple areas of the game simultaneously?
Or do you want the honor gear (that's to say, the standard five pieces from head to legs, since the rest of the honor gear is the best you can get) to be not so far behind the 5-piece arena gear? You want there to be no arena rating required on the very top of the line honor gear as there is in season four?
Personally, I agree that I don't like the arena rating on the boots and ring and such. That feels like going overboard with this whole mix-and-match blending between different PvP reward requirements. But this is the LAST season of the Burning Crusade, so it makes a certain amount of sense to me that it should be more exclusive. I hope that with Wrath the gap in quality between honor 5-piece gear and the best Arena gear won't be so big -- maybe with just one season's worth behind rather than two -- and also I hope that arena rating requirements on honor gear shouldn't show up until the very last season in Wrath as well, though it would be better if they didn't have any requirements at all.
Other than that though, I don't think you'll find Blizzard saying it's okay to just ignore the Arenas and still get the best gear, just like big Arena people can't ignore the battlegrounds and still get the best gear. They're not trying to make your lives miserable, they're just trying to encourage your participation in all aspects of the game they created -- even if you don't like some of it I guess. They keep hoping that by giving it a try, you'll learn to like it (which is what happened with me, by the way). Sorry it doesn't work that way for some of you, but for a lot of people it does. Maybe it's worth it for their sake?
Zach Jun 30th 2008 1:26PM
With all due respect to David, the point is that it's not merely about slot-filling. Honor-bought gear has Arena requirements, but not a single piece of Arena gear has Battlegrounds requirements. Not one.
This is where the dichotomy lies. An Arena player can purely play Arenas and eventually get all her Arena gear without ever entering the Battlegrounds. A Battlegrounds fanatic CANNOT ever get all the best Honor-bought gear if she doesn't set foot in -- and perform well -- in Arenas!
I'm fine with both modes of play supplying different slots. That's alright by me. What doesn't work is that it's not a two-way street. In essence, Battleground players are FORCED to play Arenas to get Battleground gear but never the other way around.
Preston Jun 30th 2008 3:44PM
Chilton's response that we must play Arenas for gear has much signaled my decision to cancel my subscription and wait for Warhammer. I had some small bit of hope left that WotLK would reintroduce world PvP and BGs again, but they will remain "second tier" and only exist for grinding and AFKing.
Blizzard is often so lauded by fans and the press, yet choices like this shock me and make me realize they often stubbornly refuse to fix bad gameplay that they appear to be unaware of themselves. It's like Starcraft's success in Korea as an "eSport" has blinded them. I'm disappointed. :(