How I learned to stop worrying and love Cyclone
by Michael Gray 
Jul 1st 2008 at 9:00AM
You'd have expected a little more in-depth Arena discussion from the Blizzard Worldwide Invitational. You'd have been wrong, but you'd have expected it. We've covered the new Arena maps, but something from the Question and Answer periods really stuck out for me. What's the future of the Arena going to be like...for crowd control? Should we expect more, less, or about the same? What's going to happen to that naughty little Cyclone?The answer from Tom Chilton was predictable -- without crowd control in its various forms, Arena matches become little more than DPS races. Crowd control (and its cousin line of sight) helps Arena fights take a little longer, and introduces viable strategies that are based all around controlling the other team. (As opposed to just blowing them to heck.) But the forums are alive - alive! - with complaints about Cyclone, Sap, Sheep, and hell, even Scatter Shot. No sir, folks don't like crowd control. Often, it seems like they'd rather get killed than sheeped.
I think it comes down to a pretty basic thing -- we have fun in these games by controlling our characters. Anything that jeopardizes the control of our characters on either a short-term or a long-term basis is therefore anathema. No one wants to stand there, helpless, while some Rogue performs their billionth stun on you. It seems to me (in my rosy-glassed retrospect) that we heard less complaints about insta-kill POM+Pyro than we do about a 3 second stun.
Your mileage may vary, but I think until Blizzard finds some way around that dichotomy -- CC is good for interesting fights, bad for fun -- we're going to continue to see tumultuous forum fights about the issue. I'm forced to agree with Chilton -- crowd control adds a layer of strategy and depth to the tactics of the Arena. Still, I hope they do something about it.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, News items, Arena, Worldwide Invitational
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
cagey Jul 1st 2008 9:27AM
The title of this post is WIN.
Taeous Jul 1st 2008 9:32AM
One of the best movies out there, imo:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057012/
Great title.
andy Jul 1st 2008 9:28AM
i'll complain until the cows come home about how a rogue can keep me stunned from the second he pops out of stealth until i hit the "Release" button, but then I'll switch to my mage and keep that same rogue sheeped until the rest of his team is dead and he's left to face me and 4 of my buddies at once. it's only not fun if you're the victim. i have no problem with CC when it's working FOR me though. :) that's the thing about PvP: someone has to lose, and that someone is a real person.
bob Jul 1st 2008 9:29AM
The number of different classes and talents in WoW make a small group match like the arenas inherently unbalanced. MMORPGS (PvE or PvP) are built for large groups. The arena is not a good venue for PvP in a game like WoW. As is CC is the only thing that prevents a simple DPS race and no one likes being CCed. The only way to 'fix' arenas would be to make it so each player has the same abilities and thus archive true balance and match that is based on skill. But then why not just go play Halo?
Blizz needs to realize that small arena matches are the wrong kind of mechanic for a game like WoW and start concentrating on BGs and world PvP (i.e. large groups of players) instead of constantly tweaking things only for the goal of arena balance (an unachievable goal).
Hellshound38 Jul 1st 2008 10:01AM
Guild Wars did it, balanced pvp
so dont act like it cant be done.
Limiting Gear differences, making skill selection more important, ability to customize character within set limits, various controls / counters for all classes...
its what the wow arena servers are striving to be, but never will be.
Saying CC isnt a problem is crazy. Its not that its impossible to counter, or outplay, it just forces you to play classes that can... tired of seeing resto druid + rogue.
And i know tons of people will respond saying guild wars pvp sucks blah blah. But its usualy people who only win by outgearing their enemies. Guild wars pvp took skill, and group coordination. Not to mention the skill needed to play was higher, 2 second heals , 6 second heals in wow, and still some classes cant interupt them. Meanwhile in guild wars 1/4 second cast 3/4 second cast, Maybe 1 second or 2 second spells, and a very skilled player could still stop them.
wow = gear grind + cookie cutter spec and class + propper addons + slight amount of skill = win
Roboticus Jul 1st 2008 10:44AM
I lol'ed at the "slight amount of skill" thing.
Back on topic, CC really is the defining characteristic of wow arenas. BUT, if you learn to love the cyclone, and use skill (see above lol) to predict it and avoid it, you can really love the cyclone.
Not that CC doesn't need to be tuned. The amount of CC a rogue brings to a match is absurd, and the classes without great CC are having a hard time in any 2s or 3s combo.
But just gotta say, even though you sound critical of wow pvp, your formula at the end can be simplified to "wow = win".
Nasgoul Jul 1st 2008 1:27PM
i agree with the last reply there... the essence of all the new qqing about pvp.. is that some classes (and specs) are allowed to succeed and some are not... if cc is such and important thing, then shouldnt all classes have the chance to do it??
if cc is the thing that can win, then shouldnt everyone have a chance to win? thats the problem with having pvp reliant on cc is that they only give it to a few classes...
so now i have to either pve?? or not play with who i want to cause only certain classes are allowed to have success?? thats not the way it should be... every class.. and every class combo should be viable in pvp
here is a thought Jul 1st 2008 1:27PM
if no abilities were nerfed in the arena then perhaps the fights could be more balanced... a mage can use their elemental, why can't a shaman? when some classes are not allowed to bring the full power of their PVE abilities to the arena match then the PVP becomes little more than a route to 'welfare epics' for many classes.
BillDoor Jul 1st 2008 9:35AM
Crowd control is only a problem when you're the target.
William Jul 1st 2008 10:02AM
Or if you don't have any and forsee that you could be a target (aka. Shammy) But hey, looks like we might be getting one so no complaints from me!
Mora Jul 1st 2008 10:03AM
I have it hard. I read Cylon lol
Ryan Jul 1st 2008 10:01AM
Having played games where crowd-control is downplayed, you get to really appreciate the pacing effects that it has on PVP.
Calaana Jul 1st 2008 10:03AM
I think crowd control when used properly is very good... but then I also don't consider stun locks and mace procs to be crowd control. Sap and sheep only have 10 second lengths on them.. that's not overly long, but I'm a bger not an arena..er.
Pips Jul 1st 2008 2:44PM
I really don't think the EXISTENCE of croud control is the problem, but rather the ridiculous reset time on DR for them. Think about it... if the DR refresh time were extended players would have to use croud control abilities strategically rather then chain spamming them with their team mates. I don't mind getting cycloned 3 times, I mind getting 6 full duration cyclones a match.
Hollywood Ron Jul 1st 2008 10:56AM
Just let me bubble out of cyclone and I'll never complain about it again. And also put it on a longer cool down.
Zeplar Jul 1st 2008 11:03AM
It'd help, though, if during that 3 second stun you or your partner was not taking damage from a rogue equal to an AP-PoM-Pyro. At least sheeping heals you and the mage has to spend 1.5 seconds casting it.
Attune Jul 1st 2008 11:03AM
Druid's are easy button, nuff said. We're an unfair advantage in any arena makeup, especially in 2v2. I can completely take a player, basically, out of the match with CC, making it a 2v1... is that fair? No. Is it an easy win? Yes, who cares... stop crying and go play something else.
-Attune@Akama
ILikePvPbuthatePvPers Jul 1st 2008 3:00PM
Druids are easy button? Are you fucking serious? Don't be a complete dumbass. Not every Druid plays Restoration. Try playing Balance or Feral Combat and let me hear you say that. Fucking retard.
Prot war PVPr Oct 6th 2008 10:18AM
The problem I see with CC is an imbalance between CC and CC breaks. I'd like to see the epic medallion be changed to a 1m CD.
Procris Jul 1st 2008 11:41AM
Well in WoW you have weak CC and then you have strong CC. Any damage will break a mages sheep, not to mention while sheeped damage is recovered. Any damage will break a rogues Sap. No damage at all will break cyclone. CC in WoW is not a problem, its just clearly some forms of CC are far far more powerful and affective than others.