Cutting the Karazhan timer
by Mike Schramm 
Jul 2nd 2008 at 4:00PM
Karazhan is getting beat into the ground nightly by almost everyone on the realms -- isn't it about time, asks Heavymetal from Sargeras, that Blizzard lowered the timer? It certainly seems like the time has almost come -- by the time the last expansion released, UBRS, which was basically the precursor to Karazhan, had no timer and was getting raided like crazy. All of the gear is going to be replaced anyway, and the attunement's been lifted -- why not let players go nuts on Medivh's old stomping grounds?Bornakk closes the thread due to caps, but we'll play devil's advocate and try to answer for him: Badges. With Karazhan basically a knockover for even beginner guilds, the only way Blizzard has to control the flow of badges from there is to keep the instance on a timer. The Kara gear might get replaced, but some of the Badge gear has to last for a while, and while Heroics do grant Badges (they're on a timer as well), Kara hands out more of them for free than those old ladies with meat on toothpicks at the grocery store.
Still, in Wrath we're probably looking at an all new Badge system, so you'd think Blizzard might as well open the floodgates at some point. Whether it'll be before or after the next expansion, though, we have no idea.
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Instances, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Ozzy79 Jul 2nd 2008 4:26PM
If Kara didn't have a timer (or was on ~1-day timer like heroics), badge gear would not take long enough to obtain. You could get a near T-6 equivalent piece of equipment from the Smith on the isle after just 5 days of Kara, whereas right now it would take 5 weeks of Kara due to the timer.
Personally, I'd advocate a compromise of putting Kara on a timer similar to ZA as it would allow people to run it a couple times a week.
Naix Jul 3rd 2008 9:00AM
Agreed. But I would place the timeer on an ammount run not per week. For example you just PUGed Kara last night and not your friends want you to run Kara with them tonight.
You should have 3 passes a week.
SeanOr101 Jul 2nd 2008 4:27PM
I agree.
If Kara wasn't on a timer, there would be way too much Badge loot flying around and all the other subsequent raids would become alot easier.
Rather than having to raid Gruuls or Mag's for the next step, people would farm Kara every night of the week and have 2 or 3 Badge pieces a week.
Haderic Jul 2nd 2008 4:36PM
As much as my alts would love to be able to run kara a few times a week. This would be devastating to my selling nether vortex business.
rick gregory Jul 2nd 2008 4:41PM
Even a 3 day timer's too fast with 22 badges from a clear. What they could do is to drop the number of badges it gives - 1 per boss, 2 from Prince. That would be, um.... 13? Combined with the fact that you get epic drops from each boss and a 3 day timer and that would be a nice way to do it.
SpaceDog Jul 2nd 2008 4:42PM
It's fine as it is, I think. People would probably just go overboard otherwise.
DeathKnight-toBe Jul 2nd 2008 4:49PM
I miss UBRS.
IMO one of the best instances every made.One of the cool things UBRS had was that it was really just a 5man instance,but you did it as a 10man.
It had big bosses,diferent fights ,swarms,cc,aoe.Everything.
Back in the days you could just hop on any random UBRS pug and go just for fun and you could complete it in just a few hours.
TBC really missed that one simple easy and fast raid.
Heroics were nice but they didnt feel the same.
bumble Jul 2nd 2008 7:31PM
agreed, and somehow you always found a pug, as opposed to now looking for hours to find one as everyone is too spread out over too many possible instances. ubrs was also nice as group composition wasn't as important, the complete opposite being the cc-hell which is magisters terrace.
Rich Smith Jul 2nd 2008 8:55PM
I remember when UBRS was a 15 man raid!
beatphreek Jul 2nd 2008 4:54PM
I'd rather clear it once for 22 badges than twice for 26... and I also don't think a 3 day timer for 22 badges is a good thing either. I'd never get out of that damned haunted castle that way. The only thing good about the 13 badges per run is that it would make it easier to get guildies interested in a ZA run for the same ammount of badges and less sharded gear.
Procris Jul 2nd 2008 4:58PM
Agreed, the timer is fine considering the badges your getting. Would i enjoy doing kara more than once a week? Probably but then they'd have to limit the badges. Which honestly is fine with me but for some people who like collecting a lot of badges in one go might be bad idea. The gear dropping from kara certainly isn't all that great anymore but they are still epics and there needs to be a limit on how often you can do it.
mizatt Jul 2nd 2008 5:16PM
I think the badge drops in Kara should be reduced and the reset time should be reduced to three days. Yeah, it would take longer, but it doesn't take long enough the way it is now. It forces large, progressed guilds and budding guilds alike to run it every week and causes people to neglect heroics. It's a lot harder, on my server at least, to get parties for heroics now because the payoff is comparatively small.
Ravenblight Jul 2nd 2008 5:17PM
i have always felt that it was on too long of a timer before there were badges to be had in Kara.
4/5 day timer would be more than reasonable...why should the FIRST raid which is 10 man be on such a long timer anyway when the content people want to be getting at is 25 man?
I just always found it funny that it was the Kara timer that slowed alot of people down for a very long time.
The badges make it a hard choice but in the end i still think 7 day cool down = too long
jay Jul 2nd 2008 5:18PM
Nothing to stop people farming heroics non stop now is there?
emoser Jul 2nd 2008 5:24PM
I agree--drop the number of badges down and reduce the timer to 3-days ala the old ZG.
For those of us who have alts (or even mains) in the kara phase of progression, with most of the rest of our guild having moved on to other stuff, having to deal with Kara only once a week is a nightmare. In the old days, when UBRS was the main progression path before the large-scale raids, I'd run UBRS a few times a day and about 10 times a week sometimes. Not only does the KZ timer prevent me from running it more than once a week, it actually prevents once a week runs from happening. Why? Because getting a PUG proves almost impossible. When people can only go once a week to farm badges, they're reluctant to 'use up' that chance by going with someone who actually NEEDS KZ gear. People just want to burn though it for the badges as quick as possible, and they only want to go with people who can burn through it with them... in other words, other people who have NO INTEREST in the gear that's gonna drop there.
It's incredibly frustrating and the main reason my pally is stalled in progression right now :(
Anna Jul 2nd 2008 5:24PM
"With Karazhan basically a knockover for even beginner guilds... "
Really? It's obviously been a long time since you ran Karazhan with a group of people that have never been there before and are wearing only instance blues. Karazhan is easy for most because it's people going for badge runs that overgear the place (and are dragging their new alts along for the ride).
With a truly "beginner" group? It'll clean your clock.
Kestrel Jul 2nd 2008 5:34PM
Hear hear, Anna!
Could you be more patronizing, Mr. Schramm? I suspect you either never raided Karazhan with a beginner guild, or totally forget the wipefest such a run can be.
Mike Schramm Jul 2nd 2008 6:33PM
Point taken.
Dave Jul 2nd 2008 5:26PM
I'd agree with less badges and a 3-day timer.
No timer isn't good because Kara is so huge. Lots of guilds aren't into 4+hr raids (and most guilds seem to take around 3-4hrs for a full clear if they don't overgear the place). I know tons of guilds that clear half one night and come back the next night just to avoid burnout.
UBRS had about half the bosses and could be pugged in 2hrs max. There's really no good comparison here. Yes, the gear is going to be quickly outclassed once you start getting dungeon loot from Northrend, but that's ultimately not the real issue and neither are the badges. UBRS had blue gear, Kara has purple gear with the ability to accumulate even more purple gear through badges... and purple is "special". (which is why S1 PVP gear didn't turn into non-honor gear replacing the intro rep PVP gear on vendors, because they can't just sell purple gear with an honored reputation since Purple == Special)
Should kara have originally been really good blue loot? Totally. Things would be way different now if that were the case.
Simon Jul 3rd 2008 5:43AM
Its all about having proper raiding for 10 man guilds. Having it on a long raid timer allows people to clear some bosses (say up to Aran) and then have a crack at the prince later in the week.
I think that the loot is great, you can gear up your alts and the badges keep people with no alt interested in coming along with you.
If you want more badges run ZA, run heroics. Run Gruul.
The big problem is that 10 man progression is broke due to the jump between Kara and ZA: if there was an intermediate instance as big as Kara with 10 bosses in it that droped iLevel 130 ish loot then we would not have any issues...