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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsCutting the Karazhan timer
by Mike Schramm 
Jul 2nd 2008 at 4:00PM
Karazhan is getting beat into the ground nightly by almost everyone on the realms -- isn't it about time, asks Heavymetal from Sargeras, that Blizzard lowered the timer? It certainly seems like the time has almost come -- by the time the last expansion released, UBRS, which was basically the precursor to Karazhan, had no timer and was getting raided like crazy. All of the gear is going to be replaced anyway, and the attunement's been lifted -- why not let players go nuts on Medivh's old stomping grounds?Bornakk closes the thread due to caps, but we'll play devil's advocate and try to answer for him: Badges. With Karazhan basically a knockover for even beginner guilds, the only way Blizzard has to control the flow of badges from there is to keep the instance on a timer. The Kara gear might get replaced, but some of the Badge gear has to last for a while, and while Heroics do grant Badges (they're on a timer as well), Kara hands out more of them for free than those old ladies with meat on toothpicks at the grocery store.
Still, in Wrath we're probably looking at an all new Badge system, so you'd think Blizzard might as well open the floodgates at some point. Whether it'll be before or after the next expansion, though, we have no idea.
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Instances, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Kestrel Jul 2nd 2008 5:27PM
"With Karazhan basically a knockover for even beginner guilds"
Wow...more than a little patronizing there, Mr. Schramm. I suspect you either never raided Karazhan with a beginner guild, or totally forget the wipefest such a run can be.
Deacon Jul 2nd 2008 5:35PM
I like Rick's idea. Less badges, 3 day timer. We can gear up our alts with drops and save badges for our well geared guildies.
Kestrel Jul 2nd 2008 5:35PM
Hear, hear, Anna!
Could you be more patronizing there, Mr. Schramm? I suspect you either never raided Karazhan with a beginner guild, or totally forget the wipefest such a run can be.
Narlic Jul 2nd 2008 5:53PM
How about the timers on Gruul's and Magtheridon? Both instances are usually done in under an hour each! Heck, sometimes in only one hour *combined*
Andrew Martin Jul 2nd 2008 5:55PM
This is really annoying me. I restarted WoW a few months ago and when i got to 70 I joined a new raiding guild. We've done a great job of progressing quickly but then there's really no easy way to get to 25 people geared quickly because of the kara cooldowns so it makes it a lot more difficult than it should be to get out of the Kara Zone. Why can't they just divide the number of badges per boss in half and then set it to a 3 day timer.
Abhorrsen Jul 2nd 2008 6:08PM
I also think it would be a bad idea, because I've been pondering the new badge system that they've said will roll out. Will you be able to "cash in" your old badges? What happens to them? I wouldn't think they would become superfluous, as that's hard earned badges, so something must be done with them. Dropping the timer, would enable badge caching for when wrath drops.
Notacasual Jul 2nd 2008 6:13PM
Classic case of "Give a mouse a cookie" right here. Blizzard has already bent over backwards to give high class epics to nubs that need to spend months on SSC bosses, and now these nubs want even easier epics? Why not just set up some "bosses" in Thunder Bluff or Elwynn Forest that drop T6 epics as well?
Seems like running 2 heroics a day for 10 badges is too much for the casuals already. Let's make a 23 badge for 2 hours of work place raidable everyday! Yay World of Nubcraft!
Slokomis Jul 2nd 2008 11:03PM
Yes because everyone should have to drop everything in real life just to be able to experience more than half the content Blizzard has put into the game.
Forgive me for wanting to be able to live my life and run something more than a Heroic or 10 man.
Naix Jul 3rd 2008 9:04AM
"Classic case of "Give a mouse a cookie" right here."
What? We have never heard of this made up saying "Give a mouse a cookie". Not very classic when NO ONE has heard of it, now is it?
Wavemancali Jul 2nd 2008 6:16PM
It should be an optional timer.
There are some casual guilds believe it or not that are having fun with Kara and can't get it done in a night yet. It is no knockover, you elitist you.
No timer means if you can't do the whole thing in 3 hours means when you want to pick it up tomorrow or the next day, all the bosses that you've downed are back up again and you aren't seeing the last bosses.
rplido Jul 2nd 2008 7:12PM
I'd say it's highly unlikely that they would reduce the timer for these instances, seeing that they haven't even reduced the reset timer for any of the Classic WoW raids, and the badge issue isn't even relevant in the old dungeons.
Savant Jul 2nd 2008 11:47PM
Simple solution...
Give Karazhan a 'heroic' mode. The heroic mode would be the same as the normal mode for the instance itself, but in 'heroic' mode the bosses would drop badges, in 'normal' mode they would not. All else remains the same, and they can stick the 'heroic' mode on a 7 day timer to allow people to run the instance for gear and fun.
Solidshoot Jul 3rd 2008 5:01AM
Kestrel shut it please, i agree with Anna, my guild inv. new ppl and we have 3 imba healer and my tank ofc 16k hp unbuffd and Run ppl throu it, explain it and they get it. We did 1 wipe on Prince.
Solitare-sp Jul 3rd 2008 8:32AM
Why not make Kara winged? Up to curator for the first part, and then beyond for the second part. Make it so you have to unlock the second part of course.
Part of the pressure on my guild (casual, but cleared kara) at the moment is having to run through the first part when it's only badges we need. Would much prefer a quicker run in the later bosses when theres still loot which we need. Instead the first night is a clear, disenchant most stuff...which not many people unless they are new or undergeared really want to do.
Annai Jul 3rd 2008 8:43AM
I'd still like to see them just open up the back door. If you're not in it for the badges and just want the loot from the later bosses for alts, the "pre-clear" of Moroes and Opera is just a waste of time.
Lizardking63 Jul 3rd 2008 9:55AM
Think about the past people! Does the timer really matter anymore? I mean...after all, Wrath will be out soon. Once that happens, will anyone be running Kara or any of the current 25 man content anymore?
Why not remove the timer and let people at least have chance to get some boss and badge loot quicker? That way, at least a few more people will have a chance to see some 25 man content before Wrath comes out.
Once Wrath comes out, places like Kara, SSC, TK and Hyjal will be left to rot.
SimpleSurvival Jul 3rd 2008 2:08PM
Its a curious one...
Right now, my guild has a pretty good schedule for it and we're starting to hit the numbers needed for 25man stuff
We pulled 2 full kara groups, this week.
Anyways... this comment is about the timer
Day 1, we ended with a wipefest on Shade. 2 healers, no locks. The elementals tore us up.
Day 2, nearly full clear... still have nightbane. AOE not being handled right, mages and healers dying (my opinion is they need to not rush so hard on the AOE, we kill the group in half the time allotted, but with casualties)
Today, we might hop back in to clear out nightbane if we can get ourselves coordinated and gruul doesn't demoralize the group.
Group 2 isn't as far, they couldn't find enough healers the first day, so spent a bit of effort pugging for heals. I think they got past curator on day 2.
Group 2 prolly won't be running za, I think they are the lesser geared DPS (Not sure why the stepchild offtank I am is in the core group... i guess i'm good for attendance and quick to learn) so they will have another 2 days to come together and pull out a clear.
Almost to the point....
I'm in a guild working on progression through kara, We need the loot as much as the badges.
We're a casual guild, but with serious hopes of progression. Group 1 is running their way through za too, and we're pulling together with another guild on Gruul.
A hardcore guild might be able to clear kara in a single day, but it takes us 2-3 days to do it. I would assume that our guild is pretty average for this level in progression. With za occupying another 2 days (still haven't gotten a full clear). I'm not really sure where we'd find time to pull a second kara run each week without discarding the 'casual/hardcore' feel of our guild.
OK, moral of the story time!
Changing the timer for kara won't impact our guilds progress AT ALL. It might even hurt progress, if it resets and we haven't gotten it cleared.
This argument where they are appealing to help 'progression' guilds work through kara by lowering the timer is a farce. Lowering the badge reward for a clear would hurt us quite a bit.
The only required bosses to get to other content are moroes, the opera event, curator, and the chess event.
Half are before the back door, half after... so leaving the back door open for guilds wishing to skip the beginning bosses would be appropriate and would help guilds that are looking for specific drops.
Changing the timer would only help guilds that are past kara. And with lowered badge rewards, the ability to run it twice a week would only mean they can get more shards outta it. If badge rewards were unmodified, you can just ignore progression all together... Farm kara til you get enough badges and then run BT and sunwell. GG you just cheapened the game