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The latest patch 5.4 newsAsk WoW Insider: What does an ex-GL do?
by Mark Crump 
Jul 7th 2008 at 9:00AM
Welcome to today's edition of Ask WoW Insider, in which we publish your questions for dissection by the peanut gallery -- now with extra snark and commentary by one of our writers. This week Nickiter writes in:
Hi WoW Insider -
Until tonight, I was the GL of a raiding guild - a new guild, to be sure, and not terribly accomplished. But, after a night of listlessly wiping on The Lurker Below, I gave up.
Maybe I don't have guild leadership in me, maybe I do, but that's immaterial.
What I'm asking of WI and your sometimes kind, sometimes harsh, but always vocal readership, is what do I do now?
I'm a Protection Warrior in T5-level gear, aka the least in-demand class in the game for guild recruitment. I also have a Hunter... which I'm not even going to bring up.
I love raiding... PvP is a diversion, at best... What have those of you who've been in this situation done?
Reroll a Resto Shammy and find a guild to Brain Heal for? Quit 'til Wrath? Something else entirely?
Thanks in advance for your input.
- Nickiter, Smolderthorn (H)
I'm pretty much going to throw this out to the audience -- you're having problems I couldn't even dream of having, but I'm sure you're not alone in. Plus, I thought it was a good question even if I couldn't throw some snark in.
So, bring it, boys (and girls).
Got questions? Don't wait! Send them to us at ask AT wowinsider DOT com and your query could be up in lights here next week.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, Ask WoW Insider
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Milktub Jul 7th 2008 10:12AM
I'd look around. There are guilds out there who have lost a MT, especially with the summer/pre-xpac depression.
In the meantime, tank a heroic every now and again just to keep yourself sharp while playing an alt/reroll for kicks.
dan Jul 7th 2008 11:58AM
Couldn't agree more. In fact, tank burnout is the most common case of early xpack blues anyway. SW guilds on my server aren't hemorrhaging dps... it's tanks and healers they're losing.
PsychoChris Jul 7th 2008 10:13AM
I experienced a similar situation a few months back (I was not a GL, but RL/Class Leader) and found myself wondering the same things....what do I do, where do I go? My mage was my main with a few other DPS alts, but with no 70 healer or tank my skill was in low demand. Ironically lurker killed my guild too!
I have always considered myself a "casual raider" with aspirations for end game content. Let me assure you, unless you have a sick commitment to dramafests, you won't find true endgame content (BT/Sunwell) unless you are more than a casual player.
I am sure as a GL if you made it into SSC, you had a core group of 10-15 raiders (dedicated/skilled/geared) and 10-15 casual players (interested but not focused and commited). I am also sure that this raid makeup is why Lurker crushed your hopes and dreams.
I have found a home raiding ZA to get my raid fix until WotLK is out. Many casual raid guilds have the personell for 10-man, and ZA is on par with SSC as far as difficulty. I have found that racing the timer each week is really the only progression to be found at this point without commiting 10+hours a week to raid. All in all its a great raid and a tricky environment. (Only one where they severely punish one mistake, one wipe...timers and half your loot is gone until reset!)
PS, check other servers, tanks are in high demand in most. Especially tanks that are +T4.
CasualWarlock Jul 7th 2008 11:02AM
Face the facts, you're a quiter, you quit after a single night of wiping on Lurker.
Raiding is not for you.
PsychoChris Jul 7th 2008 11:16AM
Who said anything about one night? It was many nights, months in fact, but thanks for the short sited insite.
Very helpful! :(
Fugmug Jul 7th 2008 10:43AM
Okay,
Lets get one thing out of the way. I picked up my 1st piece of Tier 4 this weekend, so I am unqualified to give you raid advice.
Quitting may or may not have been the right thing to do. Some guilds may not progress in raiding as far as they would like. But if you're in Tier 5, you weren't off to a bad start, and any synergy you developed with the healers in your guild you kind of walked away from. That's not good. (For those who don't know, Tanks/healers begin to develop a working relationship over time, they begin to know what the others will do and when, thus increasing their efficiency and survivability)
I'm also hoping you unturned every stone before quitting as well. Meaning you looked at the logs, determined if it was DPS issues, Mana pool issues, Healing throughput problems, etc and got advice from guilds who beat those bosses already.
If you really did hit a roadblock as far as interest and cooperation goes, then quitting may have been the right thing to do.
You also mentioned tanking moreso than anything else. If you're disenchanted with it, shelf the character and level a new one. (Healing might bring back a lot of the pressure/frustrations associated with Tanking, so go DPS)
But if you're not having fun in the game, stop paying to be frustrated. Find a class you like, play it, and go back to enjoying yourself again.
Fug
Farfromout Jul 7th 2008 10:45AM
You say it was a new guild? And you gave up after a night wiping on Lurker?
This is not good imo, no dedication at all.
Ok, lurker isnt hard, and no one should wipe on it for a night, but from what you are saying it seems like a single night.
Quit the game, less you rub off on new guilds your impatience and obvious intolerance.
If you cant stand the wipes, no one will want to play with you. everyone wipes.
Hurode Jul 7th 2008 11:01AM
I'm sure that night of wiping on Lurker wasn't the sole deciding factor, probably more like that proverbial last straw.
Rob Jul 7th 2008 11:10AM
As others mentioned indirectly:
1) MTs should not be GL and RL. Real hard to juggle 3 hats at the same time.
2) Wiping at the intro to T5 content is normal, but giving up means you aren't really prepared (or dont' desire) to lead a guild in 25 mans. It takes alot more to get a 25 man boss down than it does to get a kara boss down, dealing with 25 people, positioning, coordination. The bosses just get harder as far as all of the above goes.
3) Best bet is to apply to a T5+ guild (hopefully T6, nobody does T5 any more) that is looking for tanks. You'll probably have to switch servers. Don't mention the GL aspect if you want. Or mention it but explain that you were juggling 3 hats at the same time and aren't looking for RL position.
Farfromout Jul 7th 2008 11:30AM
I understand that, but 'new guild' leads me to think that he isnt cut out if he has already given up.
Guilds have ups and downs. Someone has to do the RL and GL job. This guy obviously isnt capable of them, and isnt patient enough. I know if I was raiding with someone who wanted to quit after a night of wiping, I would be mega pissed off.
Daimon Jul 7th 2008 2:50PM
I agree, don't be raid leader and GL at the same time, thats bad in my exp. GL must and usually are softer than RL, or the opposite works too, but if they are alike is disastrous, too strict = gdisband, too soft = n wipes = same thing.
Try to reform a guild w ppl u know and just be the MT helping conduct the raid, you can have perfectly 2 RL if they are coordinated.
Rob Wynne Jul 7th 2008 11:00AM
What server are you on that a T5 protection warrior isn't in demand? There'd be guilds fighting for you on mine.
nalthien Jul 7th 2008 11:07AM
Sure, there'd be guilds. Guilds running Kara. Guilds still wiping on High King pulls. Guilds also wiping repeatedly on Lurker. That type of thing just isn't going to be fun for someone who has had all that content on farm.
Milktub Jul 7th 2008 11:55AM
Agreed. Must be a server thing. I made a half-joking post in a guild thread when they got their first Bulwark of Azzinoth. Something along the lines of "Grats, now can you carry me through so I can get one?" The next day their recruitment officer started up a conversation with me about how they'd like to have me in, get me geared for Sunwell, etc.
But for me, half the fun is figuring out the encounters. I like feeling the "struggle" of a new fight. Back when my guild was first doing Kara, finally downing Morose felt awesome, after a couple weeks of just not getting it. Then when we had our first Prince kill (one-shot), it didn't have the same "wow, great job" feel anymore.
dan Jul 7th 2008 12:01PM
...which isn't the case of the op so that's not an issue.
nalthien Jul 7th 2008 11:04AM
I know *exactly* where the OP is coming from being that my main is a T5 or better MT who has seen not one but 3 guilds crumble under the exact same conditions (though it was actually wipes on Hydross that were our undoing--even though we could handle lurker, tidewalker, and fathom lord quickly and easily after that). I also have a 70 hunter alt that is in no way really prepared for end-game rading.
My solution has been to "quit" until Wrath releases--and by quit, I mean quit doing anything with my level 70 toons. As Rossi does an excellent job above of pointing out, most raiding guilds have their tanking situation fairly well sorted out (if they didn't, they wouldn't be doing much raiding). So trying to find a home for my warrior during this time is a fairly useless endeavor. I can't stand the thought of running Kara 300 more times to get the hunter into a state where I could even consider taking him to T-5 and above content also seems like a lost cause--by the time I'm ready to go, Wrath will be out.
So I'm playing several alts and experiencing other parts of the game that I haven't look at in years--playing a shaman (36) and a rogue (30) alternately and just having some fun mostly screwing around. It's been a lot of fun just playing to play and not having a "purpose" for everything I'm doing in game.
Take some time away from game as well, get casual about it, and let your mind recharge to get ready for Wrath's release.
Nettles Jul 7th 2008 11:09AM
Your guild or you yourself decided to toss the towel in after one night on Lurker? One night of wipes is nothing to feel bad about. The job of the Raid Leader is to
a) set up groups so they work
b) assign roles eg: MT, add tanks, add sheepers, etc.. assign a healer class lead to designate healing assignment
c) (this is the big one) keep up morale, and offer sticks and carrots as appropriate
If people in the guild generally don't care about killing bosses, then maybe raiding isn't for you. Some guilds are perfectly happy running Karazhan each week on mains, alts, 2nd alts, etc.. :) Nothing wrong with that.
If you're in T5 gear, then you should have ZA on farm I assume? It's a GREAT raiding zone to fine tune fast reflexes and wake up healers.
The best thing for guilds like yours (and a lot of others) is that if you have a core of 10-15 motivated people, then you'll have a lot of Wrath raids to look forward to with that core group.
Ignore the comments about no openings for prot warriors-- it's summer and guilds all over are loosing people to summer jobs, travel, etc.. It's a matter of researching guilds on your server, or moving servers with your core group if raiding is more important than friendships on the server. I moved from a high pop server with very established guilds with no openings, to s small pop server and found a fantastic raiding guild.
Arxidi Jul 7th 2008 11:23AM
First I want to come to Nick's defense. He was a bit light on the details in that letter. We were both part of a guild that did all the T4 content while attempting to get in the T5 stuff. Our issue as a guild at that point was getting people to take raiding seriously. We had 15 people or so that would min/max. The other 10 were pretty much lackluster or not on at raid time.
We attempted to fix that guild. After about 8 months of attempting we decided that it was a lost cause. My decision was to quit WOW. Nick went on to start another guild. Let me tell you it is amazing how much time WOW really takes up in your life.
Ever since the attunements went away people think they are ready for 25-man raiding in blues and greens. They don't understand the concept of working with a group of 24 other players.
My advice for you Nick is to give up WOW. Come WOTLK its just going to be the same song and dance.
Clevins Jul 7th 2008 3:37PM
Yeah, because NO ONE ever progresses past where you were...
Your issue was that you let the 10-15 lackluster people continue. If you want to raid 25 man content, you need 25-35 people who want to be there and will be. Can be 2 nights a week.... but if they're not seriously interested, recruit people who are.
And WotLK wil not be the same - all of the raids will have 10 man versions so the 15 people who are serious will easily be able raid.
Of course, you quit so...
Starryknight Jul 7th 2008 11:45AM
Totally wtb dedicated prot warrior. Since S4 came out, they have all gone arms spec.
-- Starryknight, Executus (H)