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7-11-2008 @ 3:26AM
I'd like to voice my concern about warrior tanking viability in high end raiding.I can't deny Burning Crusade gave us warrior tanks a lot of goodies: decreased magic damage taken, thunderclap in defensive stance and most of all a damaging ability to spam. All great stuff.But it also had two major drawbacks:1. Warrior tanks were all forced into a very strict and inflexible spec, with devastate being such an absolute must. Gone are the days of the hybrid fury/prot main tanks.2. We got a lot. But others got more. And I talk of course for our furry friends, the Druids. Been secondrate offtanks at best for raids preBC, they now are equal to a warrior in every respect. Some would say, they are way better. They get more or less the same damage, they can create threat more consistently since they don't get as rage starved as warriors as their gear increases, and they got the bonus of been able to shift to a dpser when he doesn't need to tank and of course to combat res...The only real advantage warrior tanks have are our many "oh shit" buttons, but seeing the so far leaked WotLK skills and talents my concerns only increase.Druids get magic damage reduction, a thunderclap for casters AND a Last Stand combined with Bestial Wrath... We get some help to combat our rage starvation and an improved thunderclap combined with a Tauren stomp... which is great for 5mans, but what about maintanking?Already the whole BT and Sunwell requires only 1 protection warrior, and that's just for bosses that require shield block/reflect... I'm afraid thst unless something changes WotLK might really signify the end of warrior tanks in endgame raiding, as they'll feel more and more like dead weight.
7-11-2008 @ 7:55AM
"We got a lot. But others got more. And I talk of course for our furry friends, the Druids. Been secondrate offtanks at best for raids preBC, they now are equal to a warrior in every respect. Some would say, they are way better. They get more or less the same damage, they can create threat more consistently since they don't get as rage starved as warriors as their gear increase" A well geared feral druid is running around with 35K armor, 60% dodge at least if you don't downgrade to your stam set you will be rage starved when tanking 5 mans and heroics.As for warriors getting "the shaft" when every freaking boss stops dropping plate and goodies for warrior you can talk. When you face dead end itemization then you can talk. When warriors have the worst scaling in the game then they can talk. I love how you guys always talk as if you got the shaft when Blizzard bends over backwards to make sure you are catered for. I have the most DKP in my guild and I have nothing to spend it on. Warriors are the spoiled children of tanking.
7-11-2008 @ 8:28AM
> 2. We got a lot. But others got more. And I talk of course for our furry friends, the Druids.BS. Show me purple leather armor with defense.> a thunderclap for castersBS. I have no thunderclap. I've got a crappy bash on a 60-second cooldown.Your Shield Bash? 12 seconds.
7-11-2008 @ 10:43AM
Druids get no thunderclap or magic damage reduction. There was a damage reduction talent early in Alpha, but that was subsequently removed. Are you referring to the 'infected wounds' talent, which is kind of a disease based crippling/wound poison effect? That only slows attack and movement speed, and it seems like this is primarily a PVP talent, and I would assume boss mobs would be immune.
7-11-2008 @ 11:08AM
--A well geared feral druid is running around with 35K armor, 60% dodge at least if you don't downgrade to your stam set you will be rage starved when tanking 5 mans and heroics.--What you describe is overgearing the encounter. In that case of course, everyone would get rage starved. And honestly, I don't care about 5mans, I;m talking endgame. I'm talking Felmyst, with a 2.5 attack speed, where a dodge or parry leaves me with no rage for 5 seconds, as my whites cannot be counted as rage generation, while a druid's can almost cover him on their own.--As for warriors getting "the shaft" when every freaking boss stops dropping plate and goodies for warrior you can talk. When you face dead end itemization then you can talk. When warriors have the worst scaling in the game then they can talk. I love how you guys always talk as if you got the shaft when Blizzard bends over backwards to make sure you are catered for.--Itemization for druids is much better than it was pre-BC. And sorry that my class is item dependand while yours relies on the utility your forms give you. More gear drops for warriors cause warriors NEED gear to compete with other classes.--> a thunderclap for castersBS. I have no thunderclap. I've got a crappy bash on a 60-second cooldown.Your Shield Bash? 12 seconds.--Check the new talents, it's called Infected Wounds.Anyway, I think you miss the point... you talk about gear while I talk about utility. I don't know if you raided preBC, but druids that tried to tank were laughting stock, you gained a lot of ground, and have become better than warriors in many an encounter... and I'll give you a quick example:Illidan. I'm maintanking and we use a druid and a warrior with FR gear for p2. At p1 the druid is at cat for and dpses. At p2 he pops to bear, and tanks one of the adds, taking only slightly more damage than the warrior tank, and creating roughly the same threat. On p3 and onward, he truns again into a cat and dpses, of course combatressing someone if the proverbial sh!t hit the fan. At the end, he has 3 times more dps than the warrior FR tank.And I wonder... what raid leader wouldn't take 2 druids as FR tanks on Illidan?This is just one of the many examples I can give you on endgame.Also note, Blizzard is not unaware of that. They purposely add abilities that require a shield (deaden at RoS, shear on Illidan etc) to force a place for protection warriors in raids.
7-11-2008 @ 11:50AM
To Squishy:Quick search on wowhead.com4 leather items with +def (all blue)259 plate items with +def (153 epic)To Wild:I am in the same boat when I comes to DKP. At any given time, I either have the most or second most by a point or two.
7-11-2008 @ 1:10PM
"And I wonder... what raid leader wouldn't take 2 druids as FR tanks on Illidan?This is just one of the many examples I can give you on endgame."You're missing the point dude. Yeah, it's a better decision to have druids flame tank. And most druid tanks would give upp ALL their DPS potential just to be ABLE to actually tank Illidan instead of his pets. Warriors, Pallies, and Druids can all flame tank. Druids CAN NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES tank Illidan due to shear. Stop complaining.Oh, you only need one prot warrior for Sunwell? Go talk to Ret Pallies about only needing one person from your spec in a raid. It's not like you're the only warrior, you're just the only prot. What's your raid makeup? 1 prot warrior, 1 prot pally, 2-3 bears? I bet there's also 1 ret pally, 1 Survival hunter, 1 MM hunter, 1 shadow priest, 1 moonkin, etc. You're not alone.You need to think about your situation. You're the MT. Period. You get to be the guy standing there smacking the big bosses and laughing. You get first call on all the gear that drops. You are REQUIRED for almost every boss in endgame raids while the rest of us are niche players. Your complaint is simply that you STILL don't get ENOUGH. This isn't old world anymore pal, other tanks are here and ready to fight for a spot. You still have the best tanking abilities in the game, but you want us to NOT be able to compete with you. You are already the king and you just don't want to have to work to keep the spot.Then again, from the way your post is written, it seems that your problem is that you personally AREN'T the MT, some other better prot warrior is, and you're bitter because the prot pallies and Druids are keeping you from getting into the raid. Sorry about that, but that ain't my fault. Go work harder or find a new guild where you CAN be the MT.
7-11-2008 @ 2:00PM
I agree 100%. This isn't about QQ, it's about reality. Protection warriors just don't offer anything but the ability to tank ONE target. They can't DPS, they certainly can't heal, they offer no buffs or debuffs (that can't be applied by a DPS warrior) and in an instance where you need all classes to be flexible, a protection warrior just doesn't pull his weight.With the expansion we are getting ANOTHER tanking class, and people need to ask themselves, when was the last time you took 4 tanks on a RAID? With 4 classes that can spec as tank, you're not going to have room to take one from each class with you to be 'fair'.You'll have to make choices based on which classes can do the most when NOT tanking, or provide the greatest variety of tanking abilities. Druids, with their superior talent trees can spec feral/combat and go DPS with a gear switch. So that leaves the paladin, death knight and warrrior. The death knight is the new 'magic boss' tank since there will be no new resist gear sets. The paladin is the only effective AOE tank. This leaves the prot warrior without much of a job.Will prot warriors be tanking in the expansion? Of course. However, it will only be in guilds where the prot warrior is the guild master and/or in guilds where the prot warrior has been around so long that it would cause drama to ask them to step aside. In new guilds you will see prot warriors have a greatly reduced role, and I expect to see a lot of out of work prot warriors in the future.Let's just say I have parked by prot warrior and an rolling death knight the first chance I get. I can see the writing on the wall.
7-13-2008 @ 4:18AM
Savant... where on earth did you read this?"since there will be no new resist gear sets. "
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