Arcane Brilliance: Why Frostfire Bolt could change everything

Each week Arcane Brilliance serves up a big slice of Mage-cake. Of course, Mages have a very different idea of what it means to "bake" and then "frost" something, so Mage-cake might not be quite what you're expecting. Unless of course you were expecting a blackened husk of indeterminate (vaguely Gnomish) origin frozen into a block of ice, in which case you'll get exactly what you thought you were getting.
So last week was fun, huh?
I have to say, I expected some controversy, but nothing like that. My earlier column about how much I love being a Mage got 32 almost universally positive comments, which seemed quite respectable to me at the time. This one, in which I bemoaned what I perceive to be a very fixable problem with the class (the fact that our DPS doesn't balance out our incredibly poor survivability) is at 200 and counting. Reading through them over the course of this week, terrified to post any sort of response lest I be torn limb from limb and devoured, it seemed like there was no middle ground. Responses ranged from "Please consider discontinuing this article from here on" to "I think this is the most well written piece on this site that I've ever read." Of the 200 responses, I'd wager 150 or so were negative.
So what have I learned? You guys prefer optimism. Apparently.
This week, I went in search of things to feel good about. I do still love to play my Mage--much moreso than any other character I have--and I truly want to be optimistic about the direction we're headed as a class. Once I went actively searching for happy thoughts, I found they were out there, in abundance. In fact, many of them were suggested within those same 200 comments.
You see, as it turns out, Frostfire Bolt has the potential to be very, very nice. In fact, Frostfire Bolt could actually change everything. Come back after the jump to find out why.
The one concrete piece of information that came out of the WWI for Mages was that we were indeed getting Frostfire Bolt, a spell that at first appears fairly mundane. At first glance, this spell delivers a new nuke that delivers both fire and frost damage, as well as a Frostbolt-ish slowing effect. Its base damage isn't quite as powerful as a Frost Mage's Frostbolt or a Fire Mage's Fireball, but the spell would allow these two specs to do respectable damage to creatures immune to the Mage's chosen method of dealing damage. This would be very handy for Frost Mages in Northrend, it is assumed, and give Fire Mages a reliable kiting method. Yay.
I could see how such a spell would fill a need. It would give Mages a way to avoid respeccing for specific fights (cough...Ahune...cough) and add to our versatility, damage-wise. Was it the big nuke I had been pining for? Not that I could see...but it certainly looked useful. Frostfire would be nice if I ever decided to go solo Molten Core at 80 or something, but it wasn't going to replace my Fireball anytime soon.
Or was it?
No, it probably wasn't.
But maybe...
Here's the thing: apparently--as things stand now in the Alpha testing--Frostfire Bolt benefits from all of the talents that affect Fire spells and those that affect Frost spells. Think about that for just a moment. To get my head around this concept, I had to go through and list the talents that could potentially apply to Frostfire Bolt. Here they are:
Fire Talents:
Impact
Ignite
Flame Throwing
Burning Soul
Improved Scorch
Master of Elements
Playing with Fire
Critical Mass
Fire Power
Pyromaniac
Combustion
Molten Fury
Frost Talents:
Elemental Precision
Ice Shards
Frostbite
Permafrost
Piercing Ice
Frost Channeling
Shatter
Winter's Chill
Arctic Winds
Mmmmkay. That's a whole lot of extra pain to heap upon one spell. Also, That list only includes the talents as they currently exist. Looking at the talent calculators on Wowhead for Wrath, there are more coming that could affect Frostfire Bolt.
Now, to be fair, there's no way to spec, even at level 80, so that you'll have access to all of those talents, but there will be some very intriguing builds out there anyway. I fiddled around with the calculator a bit and came up with an example of how much you could potentially buff this one particular spell:
Frostfire Specialist build: 0/34/37
Now, I'm sure there are better builds out there, and it's still incredibly early in the process, so better and better builds are still forthcoming, but this looked good to me while I was monkeying around with the calculator. Your Frostfire Bolt spell would potentially have the following benefits from this build, and keep in mind that this is every time you cast it, and doesn't include extra cooldown-limited effects like Icy Veins or Combustion:
- 10% chance to stun the target
- 6 yards of extra range
- Another 40% of the spell's damage added to the target over the next 4 seconds on every crit
- 70% chance not to lose casting time when damage is taken
- 17% reduced threat
- 20% of the spell's mana cost returned on every crit
- 22% increased damage done
- 9% increased chance to crit, 59% against frozen targets
- 13% mana cost reduction
- 3% increased chance to hit
- 100% crit damage bonus
- 15% chance to freeze the target for 5 seconds
- 100% chance to apply the Winter's Chill effect, which can stack up to 5 times, providing 2-10% extra crit chance.
I purposefully avoided taking any of the new Wrath talents in this build, because I wanted to work with what I know, but you can see the potential here, right? Is it okay for me to be excited about this? When you factor in things like Combustion and Icy Veins, or the Improved Scorch debuff, the damage output for this single spell could be just staggering, maybe even "jaw-dropping." I feel dirty for even saying that, but in this case, if things shake out right, the phrase might actually be warranted.
But therein lies the rub. If things shake out right. That's an elephant-sized "if," my friends. There are several ways this could go. One is that things stay the way they currently appear to be: when we all hit level 80, Frostfire Bolt will still be affected by every talent that applies to either fire or frost spells. I pray for this scenario, but fear it's unlikely.
The reason for my doubt lies in Blizzard's design philosophy so far for Mages. Since our inception, Blizzard has always focused us on Fireball or Frostbolt as our primary nukes. Even in the WotLK talent trees, there exist multiple talents that apply to those specific spells alone, talents that reduce their casting time and increase their spell damage, excluding all other spells. If Frostfire Bolt makes it live in its current form, it will absolutely and without exception replace both spells for just about any elementalist build. It will become the single best spammable nuke we have. Can you think of a reason to use Fireball or Frostbolt instead? The only caveat I can come up with is the inability to reduce casting time for Frostfire Bolt. If you invest in the right talents, you can still cast those other two spells more often than you can cast Frostfire Bolt. I'll leave it to the real theorycrafters out there to determine if being able to cast about 7 Frostbolts in the time it'd take to cast 6 Frostfire Bolts is worth losing about half of the stuff in that bulleted list of effects up there. Certainly the extra cast-time would be a concern in Arena combat. Still, from a purely PvE, DPS perspective, I believe Frostfire Bolt would become the nuke of choice in almost every situation. And I have a sneaking suspicion that Blizzard doesn't really want that.
The more likely possibility, in my opinion, is that the spell will operate on a mechanic that forces the spell to define itself as either a fire or frost spell when cast, depending upon the target's immunities. The way the spell description reads now, according to the Alpha wiki, the damage is considered fire damage unless the mob is immune to fire, in which case the spell causes frost damage. That would mean only fire or frost talents would apply to any individual cast. I really hope this doesn't happen, but it seems like a distinct possibility to me.
For now, though, I'm going to dare to dream. The world (of Warcraft) is alive with promise and I'm going to allow myself to become excited about it. I can't wait for the Beta, when we'll be able to actually get some hands-on data on the spell.
Frostfire Bolt could potentially perform all of the tasks of both of our current primary spells at the same time, and twice as well. You could kite with it. You could trigger all of the giant crits you're used to with it, plus more. You could use it in Shatter combos. You could proc Impact with it. You could pump out crit after crit with it after activating Combustion. It will be comparably mana-efficient.
If this holds up, Frostfire Bolt will not just become a viable part of your spell rotation; for elementalist specs, with an occasional Scorch thrown in to keep the debuff up, Frostfire Bolt will be your spell rotation. Who knows? Maybe there'll even be an Inscription to reduce it's casting time.
See? Maybe we'll be able to top the DPS charts again after all. I'm going to take my pessimism and blow it up.
With a Frostfire Bolt.
Filed under: Mage, Analysis / Opinion, Expansions, Classes, Talents, (Mage) Arcane Brilliance, Wrath of the Lich King, Worldwide Invitational
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 5)
Username Jul 13th 2008 10:16AM
@Elyx
The problem is, while we have of minor annoyances which are persistent throughout the life of any leveled mage (think blink's spottiness), things really start to get noticable PvE side when you reach T6. Scaling is really bad since warlock's scaling is absolutely OP.
I suspect T6!warlock is beyond Blizzard's comfort zone for a class's OP situation (based on changes upcoming to Wrath, we know they don't like the direction of destro shadow in T6). However, because of the way they designed their raid encounters they can't just bring warlock damage down to something more reasonable now. Thus, they're addressing the situation at the expansion reset.
In Karazhan, you're not going to really see the stark damage component of what's wrong with this class. I guarantee it. So know that going in. You might realize whatever's wrong with mages PvP-side at a more entry-level, but I wouldn't know: I'm no one to give input about mage PvP as I can't stand it, and won't PvP with my mage even to get best-in-slot gear PvE wise. I do my PvPing on my healing priest.
Honestly I don't mean to insult you, but if you truly want to know whether or not a class' perceived situation is real or just QQ, you'd probably get more accurate results just from reading the theorycraft at Elitist Jerks' forum. (I can't do math to save my life, so they're an excellent resource for me especially.) It's really hard to assess the problems of a class in the PvE side of things without having seen more of the class in PvE than Karazhan.
Another example, I'm leveling my feral druid and she's only 46 now. At this point in time, I would say that feral is super OP, but I know from research that bear butt tank itemization is truly crap and you have to arena to get gear in some slots. That's the perception of a feral far higher than my own baby 46, and while I'd say feral is fine, there's a whole other subset of feral in endgame which is not fine. (I don't believe you should be required to PvP to reasonably obtain PvE gear.)
Just goes to show how random factors like level or progression can mean the difference.
Chryso Jul 12th 2008 7:24PM
Can't say I'm blown away by frostfire's potential, but it offers an effective basic dmg spell for a variety of specs, which it's certainly about damned time for. Trouble is, damage types aren't really the big problem here, and never were (Ahune excepted).
When they have something to say about our miserable survivability in PvP, and lack of definable roles in PvE other than caterer and sprinkler system, then we'll be getting somewhere.
It's nice, it's just not enough.
luds Jul 12th 2008 7:15PM
Hi, as a warrior i'm always biased towards mages our so called counterclass. I too think mages needs their pve side improved alot its not okay to be weaker than warlocks in both single and multi target dps.
However on the PVP side i think mages are pretty fine, they need(and will get) some dispel protection, what they should not get is an increase in both dps and survivability as that can throw off balance pretty easily. Does that mean mages shouldnt get new funny stuff to play(and excel skillwise) with? No, not at all they should get whatever possible to improve their experience.
Another point i can't believe mages(and other closses) are sayin dev's love warriors, we have remained unchanged for a few years now, we didnt get ANYTHING remotely new/fun at Burning Crusade(okay i forgot spell reflect which was pretty bad at BC release and s1), did this put us at a disadvantage? Hell no, a skill we got 7 years ago saved our day (MS) but my actionbars look exactly the same like they did when doin some WSG premades for high ranks. To summarize this i think warriors are at a very balanced state besides rng-spec ehhh mace it's the classes backing the warriors that are overpowered, mainly Druids and Rogues.
(PVE Dps needs to be improved tho :P)
Bethany Jul 12th 2008 7:44PM
I agreed with your article last week.
Maybe Blizz will listen.
Furydeath Jul 12th 2008 8:27PM
I'm just glad for the list of what frostfire gets. I was hoping blizz would add something to the talents that says something like: Note counts for frostfire. or something like that. Most the new things so far seems to be just for PvP.
Only one I don't really like as a mage is the frost stun. It is only usable on a frozen target so why would you stun them when you can get a crit. Knowing blizz the stun will probably brake the freeze effect.
Balasan Jul 12th 2008 9:23PM
"So what have I learned? You guys prefer optimism. Apparently."
Nahh, you're wrong. Mages just love to QQ.
Demosthenes Jul 12th 2008 9:27PM
We "QQ" with and for a reason.
Roxton Jul 13th 2008 7:14AM
No, when a mage offers constructive criticism like last week, that's QQ. When warlocks go and protest in game and fill 40-page forum threads with "OMG BLIZZ NERF LIFE TAP AND I WILL EAT UR BABBY", apparently that's "negative feedback from the community".
Trevin Ward Jul 12th 2008 9:32PM
"Mages: Elementalist builds will get a little boost in WoTLK. "
I don't know what Blizzard is doing, this article and that line there make me think that this might be a possibility. (quote is from this: http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/06/30/worldwide-invitational-paris-the-roundup/).
I agree, deep fire and deep frost will still use their classic nukes, but if frostfire does truly gain the benefits of all frost and fire talents, you've got a boost for elementalist builds right there.
twh Jul 12th 2008 9:34PM
Just a little FYI for you cry baby mages:
At least you know what you're getting. Paladins and hunters, on the other hand, don't.
Heilig Jul 12th 2008 9:45PM
Since my three 70's are a Paladin, Hunter, and Mage, I feel qualified to say this:
Shut up. When Paladin and Hunter changes are announced, if they're bad, we'll discuss them then. Mage changes have already been announced, and they are lackluster at best. Telling us that "At least you know what your changes are" is trolling of the worst kind.
You're right. You don't know what your changes are going to be. They could end up being FANTASTIC. As it stands now, I wish the Mage changes were still in development instead of this junk they gave us.
Taxis Jul 13th 2008 1:47AM
Mage changes are still in development. Nothing is set in stone until the expansion hits, and even then its a work in progress.
Elitiana Jul 13th 2008 9:51AM
I really do suspect that frostfire will only be good for elementalist builds, fire will still top the dps but when we have raids with multiple fire and frost resist bosses the elementalist build will shine.
As always it'll be a majority of fire/frost immune mobs and bosses.
I also believe that frostfire will end up only using the approriate talents depending on the damage type the spell actually does.
STereo Jul 12th 2008 11:00PM
Mages poor survivability is a myth that still hangs around from the pre-TBC days when it was true.
Cloth armor = leather armor = mail armor = trivial or no armor in TBC.
Armor that matters = plate or shield or both
Mages have iceblock which gives them much better survivability than other classes less blessed and blink is pretty great too.
Mages do great in 3v3 arena great in dps and are on the upswing overall in arenas.
And their damage is certainly overpowered in pvp.
This is a good solid class with nothing to complain about
Leance Jul 12th 2008 11:34PM
Mages are probably one of the most balanced classes in WoW,they have always been.
Even blizz says that ,mages are usualy in the right spot and many new things are tried on them.
Heilig Jul 13th 2008 2:10AM
"Mages have iceblock which gives them much better survivability than other classes less blessed and blink is pretty great too.
Mages do great in 3v3 arena great in dps and are on the upswing overall in arenas.
And their damage is certainly overpowered in pvp."
Way to completely miss the point. We're not talking about PvP, even though ALL the new Top-tier talents I have seen so far are strictly for use in PvP. What we are talking about is Raid viability. As of now the ONLY reasons to bring mages and not warlocks are AI, Tables, Sheep for some trash, and a portal out at the end of the night.
Markymark Jul 13th 2008 3:08PM
Mages poor survivability is a myth that still hangs around from the pre-TBC days when it was true.
It's still true post TBC days even with Ice Block a trained skill its still not the end all be all whe nit comes to surviving.
Mages have iceblock which gives them much better survivability than other classes less blessed and blink is pretty great too. Lol you must live under a rock because Blink is far from Great its not 100% reliable and thats a liability trying to get some distance to cast and you go nowhere. Warlocks are getting their own semi blink with that demonic circle. I wish at least their would be a higher rank of Blink but you travel a farther distance.
Mages do great in 3v3 arena great in dps and are on the upswing overall in arenas.
To get to that in arena you basically have to be Frost... what happened to other trees surely everyone doesn't want to be frost to be competent in pvp.
And their damage is certainly overpowered in pvp.
Only time our damaged is overpowered in Pvp is when shatter combo's or trinkets are involved. We have to work for that damaged as opposed to a warlock running around dotting everyone and their on top of the charts.
This is a good solid class with nothing to complain about.
Yea nothing to complain about except those who except whatever Blizz hand feeds you.
Glad to see some people aren't holding their breath for the proposed spells and talents Blizzard has given us.
I do agree however that with Frostfire bolt being Elemental will be more competent if they dont nerf the mechanic of the spell receiving bonuses from the spell.
buenoexcellente Jul 15th 2008 10:35AM
Mages damage is hardly "overpowered in PVP". Its only "comparable" really considering that pillars provide 100% mitigation. Its certainly nothing that can take out a Resto anything.
The reason Mages have become usable in PVP is a metagame one, not a power one. The teams that would have normally relied on a Warlock can no longer do so because Melee scaling has pushed Warlocks almost completely out of the Arena, and Mages are pretty good against melee classes. Thus Mages can actually compete, but that isn't the same as being overpowered, its having a niche in an overall warped environment.
Phantomwolf Jul 12th 2008 11:20PM
Honestly I think there are just to many what ifs and such to get my hopes up on this one.
Unless the frost talents affect the fire portion and vice versa at the same time its not going to be what some are hoping it will be.
My mage is parked for now and I am leveling other alts until I see some true "love" from Blizzard with this class.
I am just hoping the reason the class has seen less attention so far is that its getting major changes like Paladins, and had allot to work out.
HUR Jul 12th 2008 11:31PM
well.....last time I complained about the QQ article so I guess these time the right thing to do is to post something positive.
So ,good article.