Arcane Brilliance: Why Frostfire Bolt could change everything

Each week Arcane Brilliance serves up a big slice of Mage-cake. Of course, Mages have a very different idea of what it means to "bake" and then "frost" something, so Mage-cake might not be quite what you're expecting. Unless of course you were expecting a blackened husk of indeterminate (vaguely Gnomish) origin frozen into a block of ice, in which case you'll get exactly what you thought you were getting.
So last week was fun, huh?
I have to say, I expected some controversy, but nothing like that. My earlier column about how much I love being a Mage got 32 almost universally positive comments, which seemed quite respectable to me at the time. This one, in which I bemoaned what I perceive to be a very fixable problem with the class (the fact that our DPS doesn't balance out our incredibly poor survivability) is at 200 and counting. Reading through them over the course of this week, terrified to post any sort of response lest I be torn limb from limb and devoured, it seemed like there was no middle ground. Responses ranged from "Please consider discontinuing this article from here on" to "I think this is the most well written piece on this site that I've ever read." Of the 200 responses, I'd wager 150 or so were negative.
So what have I learned? You guys prefer optimism. Apparently.
This week, I went in search of things to feel good about. I do still love to play my Mage--much moreso than any other character I have--and I truly want to be optimistic about the direction we're headed as a class. Once I went actively searching for happy thoughts, I found they were out there, in abundance. In fact, many of them were suggested within those same 200 comments.
You see, as it turns out, Frostfire Bolt has the potential to be very, very nice. In fact, Frostfire Bolt could actually change everything. Come back after the jump to find out why.
The one concrete piece of information that came out of the WWI for Mages was that we were indeed getting Frostfire Bolt, a spell that at first appears fairly mundane. At first glance, this spell delivers a new nuke that delivers both fire and frost damage, as well as a Frostbolt-ish slowing effect. Its base damage isn't quite as powerful as a Frost Mage's Frostbolt or a Fire Mage's Fireball, but the spell would allow these two specs to do respectable damage to creatures immune to the Mage's chosen method of dealing damage. This would be very handy for Frost Mages in Northrend, it is assumed, and give Fire Mages a reliable kiting method. Yay.
I could see how such a spell would fill a need. It would give Mages a way to avoid respeccing for specific fights (cough...Ahune...cough) and add to our versatility, damage-wise. Was it the big nuke I had been pining for? Not that I could see...but it certainly looked useful. Frostfire would be nice if I ever decided to go solo Molten Core at 80 or something, but it wasn't going to replace my Fireball anytime soon.
Or was it?
No, it probably wasn't.
But maybe...
Here's the thing: apparently--as things stand now in the Alpha testing--Frostfire Bolt benefits from all of the talents that affect Fire spells and those that affect Frost spells. Think about that for just a moment. To get my head around this concept, I had to go through and list the talents that could potentially apply to Frostfire Bolt. Here they are:
Fire Talents:
Impact
Ignite
Flame Throwing
Burning Soul
Improved Scorch
Master of Elements
Playing with Fire
Critical Mass
Fire Power
Pyromaniac
Combustion
Molten Fury
Frost Talents:
Elemental Precision
Ice Shards
Frostbite
Permafrost
Piercing Ice
Frost Channeling
Shatter
Winter's Chill
Arctic Winds
Mmmmkay. That's a whole lot of extra pain to heap upon one spell. Also, That list only includes the talents as they currently exist. Looking at the talent calculators on Wowhead for Wrath, there are more coming that could affect Frostfire Bolt.
Now, to be fair, there's no way to spec, even at level 80, so that you'll have access to all of those talents, but there will be some very intriguing builds out there anyway. I fiddled around with the calculator a bit and came up with an example of how much you could potentially buff this one particular spell:
Frostfire Specialist build: 0/34/37
Now, I'm sure there are better builds out there, and it's still incredibly early in the process, so better and better builds are still forthcoming, but this looked good to me while I was monkeying around with the calculator. Your Frostfire Bolt spell would potentially have the following benefits from this build, and keep in mind that this is every time you cast it, and doesn't include extra cooldown-limited effects like Icy Veins or Combustion:
- 10% chance to stun the target
- 6 yards of extra range
- Another 40% of the spell's damage added to the target over the next 4 seconds on every crit
- 70% chance not to lose casting time when damage is taken
- 17% reduced threat
- 20% of the spell's mana cost returned on every crit
- 22% increased damage done
- 9% increased chance to crit, 59% against frozen targets
- 13% mana cost reduction
- 3% increased chance to hit
- 100% crit damage bonus
- 15% chance to freeze the target for 5 seconds
- 100% chance to apply the Winter's Chill effect, which can stack up to 5 times, providing 2-10% extra crit chance.
I purposefully avoided taking any of the new Wrath talents in this build, because I wanted to work with what I know, but you can see the potential here, right? Is it okay for me to be excited about this? When you factor in things like Combustion and Icy Veins, or the Improved Scorch debuff, the damage output for this single spell could be just staggering, maybe even "jaw-dropping." I feel dirty for even saying that, but in this case, if things shake out right, the phrase might actually be warranted.
But therein lies the rub. If things shake out right. That's an elephant-sized "if," my friends. There are several ways this could go. One is that things stay the way they currently appear to be: when we all hit level 80, Frostfire Bolt will still be affected by every talent that applies to either fire or frost spells. I pray for this scenario, but fear it's unlikely.
The reason for my doubt lies in Blizzard's design philosophy so far for Mages. Since our inception, Blizzard has always focused us on Fireball or Frostbolt as our primary nukes. Even in the WotLK talent trees, there exist multiple talents that apply to those specific spells alone, talents that reduce their casting time and increase their spell damage, excluding all other spells. If Frostfire Bolt makes it live in its current form, it will absolutely and without exception replace both spells for just about any elementalist build. It will become the single best spammable nuke we have. Can you think of a reason to use Fireball or Frostbolt instead? The only caveat I can come up with is the inability to reduce casting time for Frostfire Bolt. If you invest in the right talents, you can still cast those other two spells more often than you can cast Frostfire Bolt. I'll leave it to the real theorycrafters out there to determine if being able to cast about 7 Frostbolts in the time it'd take to cast 6 Frostfire Bolts is worth losing about half of the stuff in that bulleted list of effects up there. Certainly the extra cast-time would be a concern in Arena combat. Still, from a purely PvE, DPS perspective, I believe Frostfire Bolt would become the nuke of choice in almost every situation. And I have a sneaking suspicion that Blizzard doesn't really want that.
The more likely possibility, in my opinion, is that the spell will operate on a mechanic that forces the spell to define itself as either a fire or frost spell when cast, depending upon the target's immunities. The way the spell description reads now, according to the Alpha wiki, the damage is considered fire damage unless the mob is immune to fire, in which case the spell causes frost damage. That would mean only fire or frost talents would apply to any individual cast. I really hope this doesn't happen, but it seems like a distinct possibility to me.
For now, though, I'm going to dare to dream. The world (of Warcraft) is alive with promise and I'm going to allow myself to become excited about it. I can't wait for the Beta, when we'll be able to actually get some hands-on data on the spell.
Frostfire Bolt could potentially perform all of the tasks of both of our current primary spells at the same time, and twice as well. You could kite with it. You could trigger all of the giant crits you're used to with it, plus more. You could use it in Shatter combos. You could proc Impact with it. You could pump out crit after crit with it after activating Combustion. It will be comparably mana-efficient.
If this holds up, Frostfire Bolt will not just become a viable part of your spell rotation; for elementalist specs, with an occasional Scorch thrown in to keep the debuff up, Frostfire Bolt will be your spell rotation. Who knows? Maybe there'll even be an Inscription to reduce it's casting time.
See? Maybe we'll be able to top the DPS charts again after all. I'm going to take my pessimism and blow it up.
With a Frostfire Bolt.
Filed under: Mage, Analysis / Opinion, Expansions, Classes, Talents, (Mage) Arcane Brilliance, Wrath of the Lich King, Worldwide Invitational
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
pepe Jul 13th 2008 5:11AM
It's not about optimism, it's about what many perceive as the rich kid complaining because his private jet is from last year. It won't get much sympathy from the not-so-rich ones.
The difference between mages and locks is small enough that if the mage has slightly better gear he/she will outdps the lock.
I think it's very complex to exactly balance a class to do a certain amount of dps. Buff mages and the next in line to QQ will be rogues, buff rogues and then it's locks ... etc
I think the hardest part is that Blizzard has to balance both pvp and pve viability.
amirhosein Jul 13th 2008 7:04AM
well you said that it does fire damage but it's not considered a fire spell so it surely benefits from all mage talents (they affect fire frost or everything) i'm about 90% sure that it is going to be what you are excited about it does fire or frost but is surely considered both.
amirhosein Jul 13th 2008 7:07AM
i mean the mage talents say they for example increase the damage done by fire SPELLS by 10% not increase your fire damage done by 10% so even though it does fire damage it is considered a fire and a frost spell
Tirion Jul 13th 2008 8:40AM
A lot depends on how Blizzard tweaks things during the Beta, and how itemization works out. Either Frostfire Bolt or Arcane Barrage could be the mage's salvation in WotLK. Or they could be crap.
We don't know damage coeficients (at least, I haven't seen any). We don't know set bonuses. We don't know how much Haste or Spirit is going on the level 70 epics.
I'm not saying that I think mages are going to the head of the DPS class in WotLK, but I'm not ready to say they're not either. Post BC, Mages have become famous as the QQ class.... but we should remember that class balance gets turned on its head from time to time. Back when I started playing this game, Warlocks and Druids were the big QQ classes, and Shamans were gods. Things change, and until we see mages in action on the Beta servers, there's no way to know which way the wind is blowing.
You just can't theorycraft based on incomplete numbers and no playtesting, but I'm cautiously optimistic about the future of the class. On the other hand, I'm also preparing to switch mains, should we get pigeonholed as an AoE clas or some crap like that.
Tirion Jul 13th 2008 8:41AM
"...We don't know set bonuses. We don't know how much Haste or Spirit is going on the level 70 epics."
Er... make that "level 80 epics." Sorry, it's early and I need more coffee.
Another thing that bears mentioning is that FF bolt is on a three second cooldown, which makes it relatively useless in the Arena. If Blizzard wanted to ramp up the Mage's PvE DPS without provoking screams from the eSorts crowd, that's one way to accomplish that. Again, cautious optimism; we'll see.
Menalaous Jul 13th 2008 9:52AM
YOu know I read WoW insider for the positives, the bonuses, the little tid bits of information that i actually learn, or to even see things from a different stand point. Thank you for shedding a positive column on what many in the class are complaining about.
I just want to say this. In at least one part of the game, early EVERY class has been/is now broken. Thats right. In three years of playing I have seen every class be broken. From Paladins to Rouges. From Shamans to Warlocks,from mages to warriors and back again. In its attempt to keep the game balanced and still meet the constant complaining of its gaming comunity because one class has an ultimate attack/combo of attacks against another class and they dont like it that they cant win in EVERY situation, they spend alot of time working on that one problem, then the next, then the next. The end result, broken classes, unbalanced classes as one is nerfed and another in tern gains a "boost" as its not nerfed. Paladins used to be the end all be all, now, they are slowly climbing up the broken chain, SLOWLY. In turn Shamies used to be the end all be all. All I used to hear was "shaman are OP". And even when a class is OP in everyone elses eyes its not good enough in the eyes of its own players (ie party vs raid wide totems, also many still view bubbles as being severly OP when in fact bubbles have been severly nerfed in the past 3 or 4 years).
This is isnt the right place for a rant and I know it but its getting freaking annoying. To keep reading the class bashing crap on WoW Insider. I have even fallen into it when people press the right buttons. The truth. ALL THE CLASSES ARE CURRENTLY Broken. There is something that needs to be fixed with them all. Therefore all the classes are balanced in that they are broken. Yes even rouges. The last 3 guilds I have been in only take rouges into BT, Hyjal, Sunwell if they have no one else. If they need melee dps they take enh shamy for the of healing/ranged dps. Druids for the same reason or a warrior for the off tank. BLizzard has apparently then broken Rouges for end game. I can come up with this stuff all day for the different classes. What does this mean...play the game and quite bitching or play a new game
Markymark Jul 13th 2008 3:14PM
No one is whining... people are simply expressing their opinions on the current state of the class and whether Frostfire bolt is a make or break talent. It's always some idiot who reads the comments and interprets them as complaints. No one is bashing any other classes but all were saying is compared to all the nice things other classes got and looking at what were handed were demanding equality and issues being addressed instead of being swept under a rug.... So far the only issue thats being addressed is our damage but I feel that's not enough.
Lerxst Jul 14th 2008 9:07AM
Your wall of text is immediately rendered moot due to your inability to properly spell "Rogue".
True, over the years people have complained about how every class is broken at one point or the other. Lots of them have since been fixed (Warlocks, Rogues and Hunters come to mind as being the most visibly "fixed").
However, Mages have *always* been "broken", from day one. Sure, there are a few absolutely fantastic players out there who min/max like crazy, know every skill and talent inside out and when to use them, are are quite successful at playing the class in both PvP and PvE. That can be said for players of every class.
But Mages are inherently screwed due to both their squishiness and the fact that they have to stand still for a considerable amount of time to do any real damage, and even then their damage output just doesn't compare to the other big DPS classes, in spite of it being their only role.
Am I alone in remembering just how long it took Blizzard to fix Arcane Missiles? And how many Mages still enjoy blinking *backwards*? Simple things that either took forever to fix, or, in the case of Blink, still haven't been fixed are a pretty good example of just how concerned Blizzard has been with the class. I will not hold my breath for this stupidly named new spell to be the saviour of the class.
And yes, I have multiple 70's, I could complain about most of them in some way or another, but of them all my Mage is both my most favourite and most frustrating.
Bloodysaber Jul 13th 2008 2:02PM
I'm more than excited for Frostfire Bolt myself. It is the real reason that my mage will get any love at all come the expansion.
Back at 60 I loved Elementalist builds in PvP (0/24/27
Sinthar Jul 14th 2008 11:36AM
Hi , I dont wanna come over as smug smart or sarcastic - im not. But i AM the best dps in my T4/5 guild (or very close to it - the RL and GM both have been quoted to me as say i am the best). I am nothing special - cookie cutter arc/frost build, with decent gear (for our progression). What happens to us mages when we go higher (were only just starting T5 really u see) that gimps our dps so much. This being a mage forum i ask humbly for advice, so i know what to expect. At the moment i outdps even the locks with spammed FB with a final flurry of AB til im oom for the end of the fight. Ive even kept 2T4 pieces just to stop knockbacks on casting time. So i am a little confused as to why i seem to be topping the tables when our class is meant to be broken. Is it where we are raiding, is my guilds dps lower than expected. Have i got a bug that doubles my dps when im not looking??? Sorry about the last one , just confused as to what the problem actually is. Please help (anyone)!
Joker Jul 23rd 2008 4:13PM
Who/what else are you raiding with? If you are legitimately at the top of your DPS tree with similarly geared warlocks and rogues then I will look at my own positions more. But, if you're out DPSing them because you outgear them heavily...well that doesn't do much to provide us with a stable comparison now does it?
Sinthar Jul 24th 2008 11:21AM
Hi Joker,
Erm well yes i am similarly geared, T4 and token stuff mostly. Kara, and gruuls epics, and crafted belt of blasting, and two ZA pieces. Nothing more. My guildies are about the same general level, maybe slightly less geared than i, but not to any significant level. (although saying that our locks are a little undergeared as we have few and those are newly recruited). My nearest competition for dps are a couple of rouges who get to within about 3-4% of me occasionally, but on a mage freindly fight like gruuls, i beat most by about 10% - i even have to use invis as my aggro dump usually. Sorry i didnt get back to you before - had IE problems. At the moment ive been helping another mage in our guild - and hes getting closer to me now, but needs a few pieces of kit - but he still in crafted spellfire set and still about equals the rest. My reported dps for my last boss fight was an average of 1345dps throughout the fight (by others - i dont run meters as they dont tell the whole story)
Does that help any?
JB Jul 15th 2008 6:36AM
Read carefully:
"Launches a bolt of frostfire at the enemy, causing 629 to 731 Fire damage, slowing movement speed by 40% and causing an additional 60 Fire damage over 9 sec. If the target is more vulnerable to Frost damage, this spell will cause Frost instead of Fire damage."
It does fire damage + a slowing effect. I am guessing that only fire talents and talents that proc from a slowing effect will work with it.
So for example, Ice shards won't help it, unless the target is more vulnerable to frost damage...
Truffled Jul 15th 2008 4:25PM
This is the impression I get as well. Meaning that unless the target is more resitable to frost damage (thereby Frostfire does frost damage), it will be pretty useless as a frost mage to cast this spell. If I have no fire talents to boost my fire damage, then why would I use a fire spell, when my frost spells get the bonuses?
Daxington Jul 17th 2008 3:06PM
I'm an arcane mage, and have been for as long as I can remember. I like the extra kicks that the arcane specific talents give me. But I never really see a whole lot about any arcane spec'd mages on here. should I be ashamed, or is arcane just a not too good, not too bad scenario?
Laz Jul 19th 2008 11:12AM
Arcane isn't a bad spec in fact it still houses some of the best talents for mages, such as improved conuterspell, Arcane Concentration, Arcane Meditation and so on but I think the fact that the spells available for dps in this tree are limited tend to be the downfall of it truly shining. Most tend to use the arcane tree as support for fire or frost which is does very well, rather than a main source of damage.
Leshya Jul 20th 2008 11:05AM
I'm actually arcane specced (40/0/21). I do extremely well, even when I'm just using frostbolt (which is when I have no shadow priest). I always have a frost mage, which helps. We are on the verge of killing Illidan, so that gives you an idea of our content level. If these Frostfire changes work out, I'll probably switch to that. If not, I'm still satisfied with the arcane changes. :)
Joker Jul 23rd 2008 3:02PM
The problem that I'm seeing is that this spell seems to be something that is probably promising a lot more than it can deliver. Reasonably speaking it's only going to be able to draw on one talent tree or another on a hit, that isn't what I'm focusing on though. The problem I see is that the spell seems more like it's solving the wrong problem. Mages face issues due to a combination of being hideously vulnerable to spell pushback, high mana consumption, and being hit the hardest out of caster DPS in terms of itemization. Frostfire bolt looks like a spell that will be interesting, but I seriously question if it will be useful outside of one or two specialized builds.
Lephturn Jul 23rd 2008 4:05PM
Waiting to see a reply to Sinthar...
For those above who say "your opinion doesn't count unless you are talking about T6 raiding", that doesn't make sense. What % of players, let alone mages, ever see T6 raiding? That's right, a VERY small number. So balancing skills and talents around T6 end-game raiding doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
MrFredII Jul 26th 2008 12:49PM
The notion that T6 content doesn't effect the mages who aren't in that small percentage is incorrect. Raiding guilds focus on progression. None of the guild that I have dealt with say "we're only going to T5". They all are focused on getting to T6 at some point. The raid invites and gear allocation strategies are affected by how to get to T6.
Its not that the opinions of non-T6 players do not count. It that a lot of non-T6 raiding decisions are made by people with T6 in mind.