Officers' Quarters: Pointing fingers
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.In an online environment where people rarely, if ever, come face-to-face, it can be quite easy for misunderstandings to occur. Ninety percent of the time, these misunderstandings happen because someone makes an assumption about another player's intentions based on something they did or said. In those circumstances, who is to blame: the person who didn't make their communication or intentions clear, or the person who jumped to conclusions? In my opinion, both share fault, but pointing fingers gets us nowhere. This week's e-mail is a good example:
I was just booted from a guild and I have a question about the circumstance. I took an enchanting recipe from the guild recipe tab and learned it. They accidentally put it into the wrong tab, so instead of the private tab they put it into the open guild tab. I apparently wasn't supposed to have it and was booted. Now I have a guild harassing me and demanding I replace the pattern. I would like to but it won't get me back into the guild but it might hurt my chances for getting into another guild. What should i do and is it really my fault?
Here we have possible fault on three fronts. The first is the person who placed the item in the bank and put it in the wrong tab, thus making available to anyone a recipe that was supposed to be exclusive to a subset of the membership. The second is the person who took the item. The third is the person who set up the guidelines for the bank.
All of these issues could have been avoided with better communication. The person who deposited the item could have checked with an officer about what tab to place it in. The person who took the item could have checked with an officer before withdrawing and learning the recipe. And the officer who set up the bank guidelines may not have been clear about where things should go or what is acceptable to take without asking.
As officers, it's important to recognize that these communication lapses do not solely rest with the members in every case. More often than not, we are also at fault to a greater or lesser extent. So to the guild blaming, kicking, and demanding restitution from this person, I will say this: Take a look at what you could have done to avoid this situation in the first place.
You are treating this former member like a ninja. Maybe he is. I'm only getting his side of the story (with very little specifics) so it's impossible to tell if he was simply eager to withdraw something he could use or looking to make a profit from the guild's resources. But the officers involved may have drawn some dire conclusions about what could have been a simple misunderstanding.
To the author of the e-mail, your reputation has been tarnished on the server whether you are guilty or not. If you want to restore your good name, you'll have to settle things with your former guild. I suggest first attempting to speak with the guild leader about the situation. Don't get off on the wrong foot by pointing fingers at the other people involved. That's only going to cause more strife.
Instead, just express your regrets about the situation and tell your side of the story. Be calm and rational at all times. Having dealt with this myself many times, I am much more likely to side with someone who can present their case without getting overly emotional. Those who resort to anger or tears to convince me that they were wronged are often, in my experience, being less than truthful about what really happened.
I can fully understand being upset during or immediately after a conflict. After a day or two, however, I'm less interested in your feelings than I am in getting to the bottom of everything. "QQ" doesn't get much sympathy anywhere in Warcraft. Just spend 5 minutes on the official forums if you don't believe me!
If the guild leader doesn't accept your side of the story, like it or not you'll have to offer something in return for the recipe to restore your reputation. It may be very difficult for you to replace it if it comes from a raid, so an alternative may be necessary. Either way, if you don't ultimately make this incident right in their eyes, they could very well prevent you from finding another home by sharing their low opinion of you with other guilds' officers.
Next time, if you have any doubt at all, ask before you take. This axiom applies to loot in every circumstance. And officers, make your loot rules and policies as clear as possible. Better communication is the key here.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
mcclary Jul 14th 2008 12:33PM
haha, guess everyone forgot about the kid that got booted for profiting from the stuff in the guild vault.
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/07/09/guildwatch-the-thread-you-are-looking-for-has-been-deleted/
Maybe I wouldve had better luck resurrecting "Open your face, jellyfish."
sephirah Jul 14th 2008 11:43AM
A question:
Did they kick you and then asked for the replacement of the formula, or did they ask for the replacement and then kicked you?
Rhudaur Jul 14th 2008 11:47AM
It seems to me that there are two issues here:
1. The guild is clearly "to blame" for putting the item in the wrong area. If one of your top ranked members inadvertently makes an error, accept the responsibility, and try to put into place methods so it doesn't happen again.
2. The person who not only took the item but then used it on their own character before asking an officer about it was demonstrateably thinking more about themselves than the guild.
Either:
a) the person had exhibited this kind of attitude and behavior before and this was the last straw for the guild officers and they were justified in kicking them out, or
b) the person had been an exemplary guild member, and had donated far more to the guild in the past than they had received in turn, and was at least in their own mind "owed," and the guild officers over reacted by kicking them out because of their own distress about an error being made and to cover up the error (change the guild discussion focus to that "terrible" person rather than have it focus on their own mistake).
Maybe bad publicity is as good as none, but by making a public big deal out of it the guild has done themselves no good recruiting wise.
And if I was the person who took the item, I would be doing something to try to make it up and settle it....who wants to be thought of as a potential guild member who would think about themselves first and their guild second? Even something as simple as a promise to always use the item at mats plus no charge for guild members as long as they are on the server should be good enough I would have thought (meaning that the person is stuck with that profession as long as they are on the server). I don't think they should have to replace the item - making it for guild members is equivalent I think.
Clevins Jul 14th 2008 4:11PM
Or, more likely...
3) The member had been a decent guildie, neither taking much from the bank nor depositing much and grabbed this one day by mistake.
Oh and all of the people assuming this guy's a ninja... stop and think. If you were going to ninja a really valuable pattern... would you learn it? or sell it? Because I have to tell you that a valuable enchanting formula will sell for FAR more on the AH than you'll ever see in tips.
Kuroyume Jul 14th 2008 11:54AM
sounds to me like one of the kicking officers wanted the recipe for himself and that's why he overreacted...
otherwise, why care? the enchant would've still been available to the guild free of charge, and if it was on the public tab, it is implied that it is up for grabs...
Ravenblight Jul 14th 2008 2:47PM
This is exactly what i thought...
Ryk Jul 14th 2008 11:58AM
The guild member now knows a rare enchant and could be expected to do it for the guild at no cost. Instead of having this potential resource in the guild (and having the enchant sit in a bank tab is no use to anyone, really), they've booted him and almost certainly cut off any future access to the enchant.
Either this guild is extremely high-strung and short-sighted or there is more going on than has been described here.
Grats to the writer: You know a rare enchant! Use it, profit from it, love it!
Saelorn Jul 14th 2008 12:03PM
It's hard to say anything for sure, without knowing more of the specifics. I know my GM is constantly nagging everyone in the guild to take anything out of the guild bank if we can use it, to avoid clutter. Yes, this includes epic craftable patterns from SSC since any of the "core raiders" who needed it and could use it would have done so before it made its way into the guild bank (presumably they would have been there when it dropped).
As long as the person didn't take the thing and stick it in the auction house, I don't see the fault in the matter (especially for enchanting, where the one who learns the recipe is putting themself at the disadvantage, since they won't be able to use the formula on their own alts). It really is largely a matter of what is "normal" for the guild at hand.
Fugmug Jul 14th 2008 12:03PM
Bullshit.
No one gets booted from a guild over taking something that was allegedly in a entire guild access tab.
There is *WAY* more to this story than is being told. Watch. If more of this comes to light, you'll see that there was other stuff happening besides taking something from a common drop area.
I'll bet this was the kind of member who was constantly taking recipes, gems, enchanting items, potions out of the common tab and only putting things in like ruined light leather scraps and murloc eyes.
Fug
Theserene Jul 14th 2008 1:54PM
Seconded. Something else is going on here.
Daimon Jul 14th 2008 2:11PM
I may agree with you, it is that that guy was not very popular or appreciated AND (of course) they choose blame him instead of blaming a fellow oficer buddy, who obviously screwed it up big time. This is a lose-lose situation for him. You pay the guild in return they won't take you back and even if they do you'll always be tagged as the "ninja" or you can't fix things and your reputation as ninja remains in the server. You have 2 options:
1- You have enough friends in the server to have them know what happened, they side with you and you join their guild (possibly this last guild was full of jerk nobody in the server liked to your favor).
2- Change name and server.
Rob Jul 14th 2008 12:06PM
All of this reminds me how sucky the gbank system is currently. We really need a bit more control over it. In another online game (KOL), the gbank has a points system, every item withdrawl has a certain points assigned to it which can be changed by the guild leader. Everyone had a certain number of points to withdrawl stuff, and they get points by putting in stuff.
I dont know about you guys, but I've invested much more into my gbanks that i will ever get. It'd be nice if I invested 5k gold i could be able to withdraw a few hearts of darkness without relying on a guild officer for example.
But yeah, honestly, I just don't use the gbank any more. If people want stuff they can ask me directly. I'll donate cash and the guild can use it for repairs, etc. Cash is always valued ;)
Narroweye Jul 14th 2008 12:11PM
If I get it right it was an enchanting recipe. Which means that other than the ring enchant it doesn't really matter *who* in a guild can do the enchant, right?
So to me the question is: Why the fuss? And more importantly: Why kick the guild member that can now do that supposedly super fancy enchant?
Yes, he should has asked if just to make sure but to make such a big deal out of it that doesn't really has any impact (again if its an ring enchant is something else) whatsoever is something I don't get.
The only reason I see for the guild getting this angry is that someone else that was more of friend to the guild officers wanted to make some good *private* money by using the enchant for his own business.
Other than that there is not point in actually firing the (supposedly) only member of the guild that could have provided a super fancy enchant to the guild members free of cost.
cearrdorn Jul 14th 2008 12:29PM
@fugmug
You've obviously been spared some of the guilds that we read about here. There are guilds that gkick folks for the most inane things, this is just another one of them.
Fugmug Jul 14th 2008 2:27PM
but then why even put up a gripe post about getting booted from such a guild?
That's nothing to complain about. If anything getting rid of a guild like that is a perk.
Remember, this one is Officer's quarters, not Guildwatch. (I dunno, kinda like saying it's the NYPost, not US Weekly. Although I'm not sure who gets insulted in such a statement and who should actually be insulted. But if you want unfoundedd liberal self-righteous drivel, go no further than Matt Rossi. He truly is Warcraft's NY Times.)
Fug
Kassaria Jul 14th 2008 12:32PM
Bottom line is, a recipe was placed in the public area of the guild bank, and this guildie w/d the recipe and used it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this; and I agree with previous posters who stated that they shouldn't have to "check" with an officer if they are legitimally in a tab that is open to them. Whomever "booted" this player does not hold very high standards in my book. That is not someone who is a "leader". There may be other factors here, but based on what the e/mail stated, I wouldn't want to be in a guild that acts like that.
Now, I really disagree with the author's statement that this person's "reputation" on the server is "tarnished" and has to settle with his previous guild to restore his good name. Are you kidding me? No two guilds operate the same way and misunderstandings and personality conflicts are common between ppl and guilds all the time. Just because an officer "booted" this guy because he "legitimately" w/d a recipe does not "tarnish" his reputation. If that were true, then we all would have "tarnished" reputations for any kind of misunderstandings that happen on a daily basis. And he absolutely does not need to "offer" something in return. It was or was not the mistake made by whomever put the recipe in the tab in the first place, whether it was really meant to be deposited there or not, we do not know. Chalk it up to lessons learned and move on....
MechChef Jul 14th 2008 12:47PM
I have to side with the new holder of the recipe. If he was in a position to take it and then use it, good for him. Need before greed. Once the guild kicked him, they /gkicked their bargaining power to coerce him to replace it. F them.
Keysdawg Jul 14th 2008 12:48PM
Maybe its just me, but the public tab is for everyone. If you leave a tab for the use of the guild at large, then anything on that tab is fair game. Obviously, you should use reason, and it has to be for you to USE not to SELL and make a profit off it. But if you can use the item(s) then by all means.
That's why there are ways to make restrictions. Value objects should be restricted, plain and simple.
Jayboy Jul 14th 2008 1:33PM
That's the biggest point. The guy didn't AH the recipie, he learned it. He didn't learn it and quit, either. It's in the damn guild. He even said that he'd like to replace it, but it won't help him get back in the guild. Think about that converstation then. If anything, in my reading, it's the guild that is being a loot whore. If it matters so much to you "which" guildie has the recipie, then you're got cliques or issues. If the guy wants to put it back and stay in the guild, what is the problem?
Anyway, if you're going to have an open guild tab, but expect everyone to ask before they take things, then what is the point. Go back to permissions and making people ask all the time. It defeats the entire purpose of having an open tab if you expect people to ask permission anyway. And some "unwritten" rule about what things to ask about is arbitrary and dumb.
There could be more to the story, but there could not be. The guy could have honestly gone to the open recipie tab, taken and learned the recipie, had the guild members who screwed up/wanted it for themselves get pissed off, kick him, and then hound him to replace/recompense, him offering to do it but still being told he's out of the guild anyway.
Believe it or not, there are a lot of screwed up guilds and automatically siding with the guild over an individual isn't always right. If it's like that, there isn't anything he can do, and I wouldn't recompense them. If they're not letting you back in the guild, they're going to bad mouth you no matter what. They sound like a poorly run, overreacting, loot whorish guild to me. Obvioulsy the emailer could be changing the story, but that's how I read it.
talkingmike Jul 14th 2008 1:49PM
"Instead, just express your regrets about the situation and tell your side of the story. Be calm and rational at all times."
If everyone followed this advice and did not take everything as such a personal affront, there would be far less guild-drama.