Ready Check: Alts and Raiding

Whether you're currently raiding Karazhan or Sunwell, you've likely run into the alt issue. You spend night after night playing the same character, pressing the same buttons in the same environments, and reach a point where you don't need loot from certain instances and are bored stiff of taking your main there. Yet there's that level 70 alt that could do with some drops, and playing it will also bring a new dimension to liven up an old instance.
It's not usually as simple as just playing another character for the night, though. There are a number of issues that raid leaders and guilds run into when the concept of alts coming to raids rears its head, which this column will look at.
Alts and Fairness
First off, the F-word: fair. As soon as you deviate from your usual raid-filled-with-raiding-mains bread and butter, things start getting a little grey. Fairness needs to be taken into consideration with many issues, from figuring out who can take an alt and who can't, to the distribution of loot and standards you hold players to.
The key principle I've learnt from experience here is to work things out in advance, lay them down on forums or elsewhere (raid chat, vent etc before the raid starts) and not to make things up as you go along. Of course, you'll run into new situations that demand an on-the-fly answers, but if you've got set rules and principles then you should be able to work these problems out easily. The majority of problems I've seen with fairness and alt runs were when people were winging it, and raid members started to complain because things started getting unfair.
What is fair? This might mean a different thing to your raid group than to others. For some, it's giving everyone an equal chance to take part. For others, it's working out what benefits the raid most. Perhaps it's rewarding those who put in more time and effort, either on mains or alts -- giving bonuses to the people who'll be there for the long haul. Or it's just for kicks and giggles, with the aim of having a good time (which includes pleasing as many people as possible with the loot decisions, too).

Putting alt raids together
When bringing in alts, there are really two different classes of raid. Firstly, a main raid that lets some people switch to alts, either because you need them for raid balance or because you can afford to have a few lesser-geared players along with a longer-term aim. An example here would be gearing up a shaman alt on Black Temple and Hyjal farm runs so that it's available to swap in for one or two Sunwell fights if needed. Since you outgear the content, having an undergeared healer won't really hurt the raid much, and the end benefit is more flexibility in your raid composition for Sunwell progress.
The second type of raid is a full alt run, with the expectation that most people will bring alts and standards set accordingly. You might not be breaking DPS records but everyone will get to have a bit of fun. An example of this is a BT guild putting together a Karazhan run on an offday. Most mains won't need anything from the instance (recipes or offspec gear, perhaps) and it's an opportunity for everyone to kick back and relax on different characters.
With either raid, you'll have composition requirements to fulfil, which is where the issue of fairness comes in. Is it fair that the same shaman alt gets to come on all Black Temple clears, when someone else's shaman lies gathering dust? The other players with shaman alts might say no, but the guild as a whole might say yes, as it enables one character to get Sunwell-ready rather than give assorted epics to multiple people with no benefit for the guild. In a case like this, you have to examine why you're letting alts into raids, and make sure that everyone understands it's not just so that particular person is rewarded with more purples.
When it comes to putting together raids comprised mostly of alts, composition becomes a major problem. Suddenly all your tanks are healers, all your healers are DPS and.. wait.. nobody has a tank alt? It's hardly fair that your MT has to tank on his nights off because nobody else could be bothered to roll a tank. Fortunately in my experience these things tend to even out, thanks to respecs and people realising the surefire route to getting raid spots on their alt. If you end up having to ask people to bring their mains, it really helps to keep track of who's had to play what, so that you can ensure it's not always the same person losing out.

Know your limits
Okay, so we're all superstar players with a superstar lineup of alt characters, all in full tier 6 and we can play all of them blindfold. Right?
Maybe not.
There are three problems you can face when taking alts to raid content, even if it's Karazhan: gear, skill and preparation. Gear is obvious enough: a character that's newly level 70 in a handful of blues and levelling greens is hardly going to rock the Black Temple damage meters. This is more noticeable with tanks and healers, but even for DPS alts, things like having a large enough health pool can matter.
Generally, you'll set some standards for alts on raids to ensure that gear is at least sufficient for the content. Depending on how many mains you have along, and how draconian your guild usually is, you can choose to be fairly stringent or relax the rules. For example, you might want alts to meet Karazhan gear baselines that involve making some effort with crafted or heroic gear; Black Temple alts should have been to tier 5, and have a smattering of Zul'Aman and badge gear. Obviously everyone has to start somewhere, and making the rules too strict can just foster discontent, so you'll need to find a balance that suits your guild.

Skill is a debatable issue. If someone is fantastic at playing their main class, that doesn't always translate to their alts, which can cause some sticky situations -- having mediocre players doing stupid things because they're on an alt can make the runs painful for everyone involved. Sometimes you have to say no to people, although it's easier to do this in a positive light (we really need you on your main) than a negative one (you suck at your alt); note that they might find out the real reason eventually.
The advantage of being in a large raid guild is you're surrounded by good players of all classes and roles, so if someone's not very good at playing their alt, point them at someone who can play that class for some tips. Patience helps, too -- some abilities come faster with practice.
Finally, preparation. Again, the standards you set here might vary depending on your guild. A fairly serious endgame guild would probably require all alts to fully enchant their gear and put rare gems (ideally epics) in epic items, and bring full consumables to make up for any gear disparity. Others might make this more a personal choice, to make things fairer for those who don't have much time to farm. Barring someone from a run simply because their boots aren't enchanted can border on the petty, but seeing how people treat their alts' loot (and checking if they have the know-how to put the right gems and enchants in) is a really telling sign of how much they care about that character.
Drama-free loot distribution
On these alt raids, loot will drop. When loot drops, drama will happen -- you can almost guarantee it. This again comes back to the central concept of fairness, as drama usually arises because one person thinks they deserve an item more than another. Unless you're clear on the loot rules beforehand, you can almost guarantee you'll be accused of taking someone's side and giving them loot because you like them more.
A lot of alt raids and PuGs simply use rolling as a loot mechanic; this is fine, although it can lead to a fairly skewed distribution of items if one person simply gets lucky. If they do, fair enough -- random loot is random.
A general improvement to simply 'roll on everything' is to add a couple of caveats that tend to make the system a little fairer. Firstly, prioritise mainspecs -- a holy paladin rolling on DST won't win it over that rogue. This gets a bit messy if someone's respecced so they could get in the raid, but assuming everyone knows their declared main spec (and they don't get huffy about not winning stuff for the spec they raided with) then you cut out most of the drama.
The second rule is one item per person until everyone has something. This can work out fair on paper but still lead to drama, of course, when people winning items early in an instance lose out on tier gear.
Alternative loot systems include loot council (if you particularly care about alts' enchants, for example, you can loot council items and penalise those without enchanted gear or those who underperform at their job) and good old DKP. DKPing alt runs creates a system that's roughly fair, and you can even award extra DKP to those taking mains, or allow people to use their main DKP to bid on rare items over alts.
What you do here obviously depends a lot on your existing loot system, but be careful; it's entirely possible for someone to stockpile a lot of DKP by taking a main and then bring in a freshly minted alt and loot everything. Is this fair? On paper, yes, as they earned the gear -- but those competing for loot against them won't be so happy.
In general, allowing alts into raids is a positive move as it gives people a new angle to enjoy raiding from. However, beware of the pitfalls: raid spot drama, he's-in-greens drama, l2p drama and loot drama. By figuring out what's fair by your guild's standards, and what people are willing to sign up for, you can avoid a lot of this -- but beware of those who are simply loot hoovers without much of a clue, or your raids will end up full of them.
Filed under: Instances, Alts, Ready Check (Raiding), Features, Raiding








Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Eternalpayn Jul 15th 2008 7:16PM
What's up with the link on the armory picture?
darian Jul 15th 2008 7:29PM
It's a DST joke.
PeeWee Jul 15th 2008 8:17PM
We keep it simple
-If you need the item you Need for it, but only if it's a Main char for his Main role.
-If you want the item for your Main for an off-spec, or you want it on an alt, you Greed.
All Needers go before Greeders. If no one Needs, the top Greeder gets it. If you win the item on a Greed bid, your GP is increased by 50% of the item value.
The one "on top" is the one with the highest EP/GP (gained DKP on all his chars divided by the total value of all items he's received on all chars)
The system is called EPGP - http://code.google.com/p/epgp/
Memzer Jul 15th 2008 8:41PM
"It's hardly fair that your MT has to tank on his nights off because nobody else could be bothered to roll a tank." - Q F T
Your tanks and healers have alts they might like to play as well guys!
Vlatch Jul 16th 2008 1:06PM
Agreed, our main tank in the guild has been feeling guilty about playing her hunter to level 70 and not taking her tank to some of the runs. Finally, we convinced her that it was okay, and that playing the character she wanted to play was what having fun is all about.
It may not always be possible, but really understanding what guild members want to do with their time is important, and knowing that they'd rather bring in a main instead of wiping repeatedly with an alt.
The question of alts when it comes to gear and skill is this: can you beat said boss without wiping. If not, they're alts aren't ready yet.
Benor Jul 15th 2008 9:41PM
I think a good rule of thumb, in terms of whether or not someone can actually play their alt, is to run a five man or two with that alt and observe. Obviously, a raid environment will be different, but if you see that the hunter has trouble chain trapping, or can't really do it at all? That alt probably won't be good for CC in the raid. Same with the rogue who keeps pulling threat.
Rosoe Jul 15th 2008 10:16PM
One comment I would add is that if your guild has some mains which are unable to get slotted for the guild's main runs due to gear problems, they might be considered for priority on major loot upgrades which would bring them out of "alt run" territory. My guild has a few problems with this situation - taking in undergeared but competent players, and then not slotting them due to gear issues, but giving alts as much or more of a chance at upgrades than the mains. Sure, the alts have "earned" their time off to play, but if you're looking to expand your raiding core, it would make sense to do it first with mains, then with alts.
Draelar Jul 16th 2008 2:22AM
For our progression raids, we simply say "no alts, unless the Raid Leader asks you to bring an alt". This means that we don't have to worry about having second rate alts in the group, and if we need, say, a hunter instead of a warrior, then the warrior can take his hunter alt, assuming it's geared well enough.
We had a time when people were signing up to raids with alts that arguably could perform well in the instance we were going to, but as officers (who also play alts) we think it's easier to make progress if each player focuses on having one character to improve.
As for loot, we've got the "simple" rule: main onspec > main offspec > alt onspec > alt offspec
We also use EPGP, which is quite a nice system.
Keya Jul 16th 2008 4:08AM
My guild (current raid progress: BT 8/9) has had the issue of a bored raid leader with too much time; Thus we now have T5 farm runs with Alts and even some MH action with the same raid; Which spares the main raid some time to clear up the rest of MH and will give the raid many group composition options in the months to come. Great idea!!
Keya Jul 16th 2008 4:09AM
My guild (current raid progress: BT 8/9) has had the issue of a bored raid leader with too much time; Thus we now have T5 farm runs with Alts and even some MH action with the same raid; Which spares the main raid some time to clear up the rest of MH and will give the raid many group composition options in the months to come. Great idea!!
Cynra Jul 16th 2008 7:07AM
Glad you brought this up; it's been an issue in my perky priestess's raid in both the past and present. Back when we first stepped foot into Tier 5 content, we got thrashed by every other boss after managing to down Lurker. My raid leaders decided to run back to Gruul's and Magtheridon's Lairs with our tail between our legs to help gear up players. Thus began an almost three month stint where all we did was farm Gruul and wipe messily on Magtheridon (this was, of course, before the series of huge nerfs that followed).
We got to the point where everyone had the gear that they wanted on their mains, except for a couple of key pieces -- such as the Dragonspine Trophy. At this point, our raid leaders, in their infinite wisdom, decided to let people bring in alts instead of their mains. This would have been good had it been fair.
It wasn't.
You see, every DPS class just happened to have another DPS class or two or even three in the wings. A mage would have a rogue. A rogue would have a Retribution paladin. A warlock had an Enhancement shaman. And so on and so forth. For almost two months these intrepid individuals had the chance to bring those alts to the raids, while the healers -- who had NO replacements among the ranks and were told were TOO important to allow to bring in alts since they were TOO good -- languished in Tier 4 content, bored out of their minds, farming gear for swarms of undergeared alts. We lost two damned good healers due to this idiocy and I came pretty damn close to ducking out myself; I had a DPS character of my own that I wanted to bring, begged to bring, even offered to find healing replacements for my slot, but was told that I was too good to replace and that I was expected to continue healing as DPSer after DPSer rotated in their DPS alts. I let my commitment to the raid get in the way of my having fun with the game.
Now, the mention of bringing ANY alts to the raid leaves a sour taste in many people's mouths. We recently had one DPSer claim that he was burned out and he may have quit the raid because he wasn't alllowed to raid on his alt; he ended up changing his mind when he got an offer to sub with his main with a raid that had Tier 6 content on farm. We had one healer who swore to delete his healing character because he was so bored, but somehow ended up getting permission to bring his tank while the healer -- who he had sworn he was going to delete because he hated healing SO much -- ended up in that other more progressed raid.
The whole thing could be very innocuous, but the decision wasn't explained to the raid initially and it does look a bit fishy since our raid leader's new Tier 6-geared alt is a member of that other raid. Bleh!
/end rant
zappo Jul 16th 2008 11:05AM
Well there are two failings here. One of them is with leadership. Not letting healers play tanks/dps is almost a guaranteed way to burn them out. That's killing the goose that laid the golden egg. It's probably better to let healers goof off half the week then to simply NOT have them when they just burn out and/or leave. And lets be honest here, dps is a dime a dozen. A person who has a great tank/healer, and is alright in dps is much more of an asset to a guild then someone who has 10 dps characters. If the people in charge can't see that, it's poor leadership.
The second failing is with people not drawing the line. Now this varies from person to person, and I'm extremely blunt so it's probably easier for me, but you have to know when to tell people when to back off. If you aren't having fun healing ALL the time, then take your dps player somewhere else and have fun. If the raid decides to oust you, what's your loss? The fact that you don't have to sit around bored 4 times a week?
Currently I do the highest DPS in the guild and they wanted me to run something. I told them flat out that I was busy dousing flames for the midsummer fire festival (most fun I've had in a while actually), and that someone else could fill in. Did they really need ME in particular? No, they could get buy with someone else it would just be (ever so) slightly harder. If they need me for a crutch that much they can either deal with it, or maybe get their act together.
PsychoChris Jul 16th 2008 7:49AM
Well the best way I have found to manage alts is to have a seperate run for them. You need to have progression runs and more casual runs. If people want to gear an alt then they have to compete for a spot in the more casual group. It keeps it "fair", if that is even possible.
Oh, and this was not so much a problem when characters actually had to earn attunements....grr Blizzard.
h8rain Jul 16th 2008 11:02AM
I have a Spriest alt and I still went through the "trouble" of getting the key to kara.
Attunements, imo, are there to "check" the player to see if they are ready. Kinda like the Curator. If you can't down him, leave, gear up more, and come back later, because you probably won't get any farther.
gunn Jul 16th 2008 11:31AM
This post hits on something we've been discussing in the guild I'm in. Pretty much covers ground we've covered. We still do not allow alts in on any of our raid nights. Comments are good and brings up two things I've suggested to make alt bringing easier for everyone. Tell me what you folks think about them
1. Anyone who wishes to bring an alt must Re-apply to our guild with the alt. It must be accepted as anyone who raids with us is on a recruit status.
2. The alt must play a different role in the raid. IE. a DPS main must bring a Healer/Tank. A Tank main needs to bring a DPS/Healer. A healer main must bring a DPS/Tank.
3. For those who meet the above 2 goals, we would set up an alt rotation to do our best to fairly get alts in farmed content
Twizter Jul 16th 2008 11:27AM
The way we do our alt runs and pugs, you put in 2 items into your vent comment and the spec you will be rolling for that night. Say a holy paladin comes, but wishes to roll on prot gear, he may put in Prot - Kaz'orgal's Hardened Heart / Pepe's Cloak(lol). When we do the first pull in the instance, a screenshot is taken of everyone's vent comment, it cannot be changed after pull. When an item drops, you can /roll on the item if you had it in your vent comment. If no one listed it, it's a free /roll for anyone. It's worked very successfully for us in T5+ runs (and our weekly hyjal pug.)
just my .02$