More leaks from the Alpha forums on Shamans, Warriors, and Death Knights
Deathknight.info has just posted another batch of info from the Alpha forums, this time with Wryxian and Slorkuz talking about Shamans, Warriors, and Death Knights. Primarily, they focus on the tanking abilities of Death Knights and Warriors and delve into some possible improvements to the Shaman Enhancement tree in WoTLK, including possible new talents:
Shamans
Enhancement Shamans, says Wryxian, will probably see further review. It looks like a lot of the new Enhancement talents will see some changes as well:
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Weapon Specialization (which gives special abilities based on which weapon type the Shaman uses) will likely be removed
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Improved Shamanistic Rage (which made Shamans using SR immune to all movement impairing effects and stuns at 2 points) will also probably be removed.
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Wryxian mentioned a possible replacement for Weapon Specialization: Each melee critical hit would give a stacking buff that reduces cast time by 20% and lasts for 15 seconds. That would mean that at 5 stacks, you'd get a free instant cast spell.
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Feral Spirit, the 51 point enhancement ability that summons ghost wolves to aid the Shaman, may be getting a second look as well.
For Enhancement DPS, they hope that totems and shocks make up for the lack of melee abilities to keep it interesting, though they may consider a new melee move for Shamans as well. In addition, he promises new totem changes soon.
Read on for some juicy information on Warriors, Death Knights, and Blizzard's vision for tanking in WoTLK.
Warriors
For Warriors, Wryxian offers some insight into the new tanking philosophy. He says that the new high end gear will be designed to add a significant amount of AP to Protection Warriors in order to boost DPS and threat. Between that, and new and revamped abilities and talents, tanking should be a different experience in Northrend for all classes.
Death Knights
Slorkuz's commentary on Death Knights centers around the Blood tree, primarily. The Blood tree, he says, will be a good leveling build because of the amount of healing, but the ideal is that it be as desirable as the other trees in its own way. Frost will be good for crowd control and burst damage, and Unholy for debuffs, but the Blood tree should also be desirable to groups and raids, perhaps through healing.
To this end, they are considering revamping Blood Presence to provide group healing and regeneration. They are also considering adding a dependable party strength buff proccing ability, although they don't want to push it so far that Blood Knights are forced into the melee group like Enhancement Shamans have been in the past.
He also provides some further insight into Death Knight roles in general. Through the use of Frost Presence, every Death Knight should be able to tank, and while each tree has its own individual tanking talents, none of them should feel mandatory. In addition, Death Knight tanks should not feel gimmicky. A tanking Death Knight shouldn't have to sulk at the back of the raid until their gimmick fight shows up.
In addition, he reiterates that every tank should feel like they can DPS. It's a bit harder to completely revamp the existing Protection trees to be DPS-capable because of expectations, he says, but Death Knights can expect to be built from the ground up to be flexible. Either way, every tank class should expect the gap between them and the DPS to be much smaller, both while they're in tank gear and even more so if they switch into their DPS gear.
Final Thoughts
I have to admit that as much of a Death Knight fanatic as I am, I've been getting discouraged lately as I try and fail to create a "tanking build" for a Death Knight. You just can't grab every good tanking talent as a Death Knight without grabbing a lot of seemingly superfluous DPS talents, and you'll never have enough points to get them all. Even now, I can't completely shake the feeling that they'll eventually need to revamp at least one tree to be the tank tree if Death Knights are going to see any real use as anything other than last resort tanks at most levels.
But at the same time, they do seem to be genuinely dedicated to making every Death Knight tree a true hybrid tree. Blizzard seems to have a plan that's coming across very well in these posts, a plan to make tanks less talent dependent and more flexible. If they can pull this off, I think it'll be a very solid strike against the tank shortage that seems to be afflicting the game currently, and a way to make playing more fun for all tanks, and probably everyone else as well.
Blizzard's talking the talk, and doing it well. It should be interesting to see if they can follow through with the implementation.
Filed under: Shaman, Wrath of the Lich King, Death Knight, Talents, Classes, Expansions, News items, Analysis / Opinion, Warrior, Rumors






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
epsilon343 Jul 17th 2008 7:45PM
Hey, it's not an update without at least some Shaman nerfing...
It's interesting that the Death Knight seems to be having an identify crisis. I haven't played around with their talents but is it possible that they wanted to avoid pigeonholing DKs into a specific role? I don't know, for some reason the allure of the class has been ever so slowly disappearing for me.
Kaydeethree Jul 17th 2008 7:45PM
(try #3?)
Wait, wait... Wasn't the insider's policy not to discuss leaked alpha info? Just link to it so they can pretend that they're upholding Blizz's request?
Badger Jul 17th 2008 8:11PM
KD3, I said this over on Eliah's post, too.
C'mon, Insider dudes and dudettes, what's the deal?
SpaceDog Jul 17th 2008 8:45PM
Eh. Maybe, but this pretty much comes up in every article now. >.<
Just accept it. :)
Dan O\\\'Halloran Jul 17th 2008 9:09PM
Our policy is to not host any screenshots or direct information from the Alpha. We will however link to other sites that do so and discuss what we see and read freely.
Dan O'Halloran
Editor, WoW Insider
Kaydeethree Jul 17th 2008 9:31PM
Meh, I should've expected that after seeing the "Let's encourage people to get Deserter by making them think they're AFK" article. Maybe one day I'll learn to not expect the best out of other websites. Guess anything goes in the desire for page views.
Kantankerus Jul 17th 2008 9:50PM
Couldn't agree more, kd3. 'We won't tell you how to build a weapon of mass destruction, but if we see others talking about how to do it we'll openly talk to and link their sites in'
Yup, smart thinking there, WoWInsider. 'Journalist integrity' gone right down the tubes, eh.
Kyrra Jul 17th 2008 10:15PM
Ya, it is kinda silly to keep giving commentary on these leaks. What's up wowinsider?
Shalmaneser Jul 17th 2008 10:56PM
Journalistic integrity doesn't mean what you think it does. Not bowing to pressure to suppress information would have been the better path to follow. Maybe the most famous example of journalistic integrity was the NYT publishing to the leaked pentagon papers. Now Blizz isn't the Nixon administration and WotlK isn't Vietnam, but I've always been really disappointing with WoW Insider bowing to pressure, and this current situation is really half-assed.
Shalmaneser Jul 17th 2008 10:57PM
Journalistic integrity doesn't mean what you think it does. Not bowing to pressure to suppress information would have been the better path to follow. Maybe the most famous example of journalistic integrity was the NYT publishing to the leaked pentagon papers. Now
Blizz isn't the Nixon administration and WotlK isn't Vietnam, but I've always been really disappointing with WoW Insider bowing to pressure, and this current situation is really half-assed.
Lucid Jul 17th 2008 7:47PM
While I do love the notion of a non-cookie cutter class, and the introduction of tanking alternatives, I fear making deathknights too much a hybrid will put them in the same boat as paladins. And we've already seen that boat set sail for fail.
Shadowfury Jul 17th 2008 7:53PM
I really hate the current DK trees. Since we don't have any idea of what we will spam while tanking, I can't really find a tree to focus the points on. The current tank builds are something strange like 18/44/9 or 20/40/11
I have to agree with blizzard about not theorycrafting on leaks, and instead on gameplay, but right now it's madness to even think about the possibilities.
S?hrtogg Jul 18th 2008 6:17AM
ANALYSIS OF A DK TANKING BUILD
I think a DK with any spec can tank any normal instance perhaps even heroic instances with some good tanking gear set, some different runes and frost presence.
+ My point of view
If you want to get the best out of your DK tank for raiding, I think you need to focus on your niche: spellcaster tanking, but not at the cost of your melee tanking viability. Acclimation (frost40) and Spell Deflection (blood15) are the key. Since DKs rely on a high parry chance for tanking, I bet Spell Deflection will mitigate a significant amount of spell damage and for regular tanking, the Forceful Deflection (b5) talent is very helpful too.
I came up with 18/53/0
http://wotlkwiki.info/talent/deathknight.html?b=623c51403q5305501303013031013013231051zd
Not only does it make perfect sense that since frost presence is for tanking, the frost tree is also for tanking, but everything just seems to fit without an abundance of dps talents.
+ Talents in the Frost Tree
Icy Touch is a core tanking ability, because it slows down attack speed (similar to thunder clap) as well as casting speed (fitting the DK niche) by 15%. Mastery Attack speed is further reduced by Frigid Dreadplate. Bringing the Icy Touch CD down from 6s to 1s (Imp frost0) seems neat. I chose not to add a 15% chance to freeze to Icy Touch (Frostbite f0), because it's randomness may seriously hurt you in mob positioning more than it may benefit you in the form of Frost Rune Mastery (f25). Furthermore, bosses are immune to the freeze anyway.
Many frost talents go without saying: armor, spell damage, +hit, parry, +4% hp for the party.
On the way we pick up some neat other talents: Frozen Rune Weapon (f10), extra frost damage and applies frost vulnerability. With Chilblains (f25) we add a slow to Icy Touch and Mind Freeze. Aneurysm (f35) allows you to use Mind Freeze for free either to interupt vs casters or simply free damage and threat vs melee. Frost Strike (f40) gives a on-next-melee ability similar to heroic strike.
+ AoE Tanking
Three other new abilities can be used as an initial combo for AoE tanking: Deathchill (f20) 100% crits for 6s -> Hungering Cold (f50) AoE silence + freeze -> Howling Blast (f30) AoE damage, triple damage vs frozen targets. That's some neat base threat: triple critical damage to all targets multiplied by 110% because of Tundra Stalker (f45). After 30s a mage can Frost Nova to get another triple damage Howling Blast. Further AoE threat is applied by spreading diseases with Pestilence and erupting them with Blood Boil, which also acts as an AoE taunt. Death and Decay, with its CD reduced to 30s can be used, but take care as mobs can be feared by it.
+ Other talents to consider
So far on what this build gives you, because it misses out on some good stuff: Veteran of the Third War (blood30), +6% total str, +3% total sta. It is possible to get this talent and Frost Aura (f35) +4% hp party. In the unholy tree, we miss out on most importantly: Bone Armor (u25), Magic Suppression (u25) and Anti-Magic Zone (u30). You cannot get these talents however without sacrificing both the parry talents in blood5/15 and Acclimation (f40). It's giving in one for the other, while it requires you to pick up a lot of mediocre talents for tanking in the unholy tree and lose significantly in the frost and blood tree. An example of hybrid tanking in an unholy spec if you ask me.
One more subject I'd like to touch is Death Grip. As far as I can see, it looks like it works more like Mocking Blow than like Taunt as well as giving the DK a neat way to pull. If it turns it is a Taunt however, Unholy Command (u5) is definitely worth it, considering the long CD.
+ Conclusion
The Frost tree seems to fit the DK tank best in terms of general tanking utility. Some parry talents in the Blood tree can be picked up while sacrificing hardly anything in the Frost tree to give a 18/53/0 build for level80. This gives the DK a good baseline for tanking and makes him superior for mitigating magic damage and tanking trash packs of multiple casters.
There are some useful tanking talents in the other trees, designed by Blizzard to give each tree tanking viability, but these do not seem worth it to go that deep into the Blood or Unholy trees.
This concludes my analysis of DK talents for tanking based on the talents and abilities at http://wotlkwiki.info
I hope you enjoyed the read. I can't wait to find out more about DK tanking, so share your thoughts!
deviationer Jul 17th 2008 7:54PM
shweet I'm all for more dps for prot warriors. Sounding like some good times are ahead for wrath raiding.
Azyriel Jul 17th 2008 8:05PM
I just hope they give love to every class and try to make every talent spec viable in multiple ways.
Gurran Jul 17th 2008 8:23PM
Aww, vova. You mean that I can't download the alpha client, burn it to a disc and use it as a coaster?
The download locations are well known by now and the client is fairly useless as the alpha servers are closed.
mirilene Jul 17th 2008 8:33PM
Dan:
First of all - Lets make up our F-ing minds. Are we discussing alpha leaks or not?
Second - i know very little about tanking. But DPS Talents + Tanking talents + blizzard's new vision of tanks requiring DPS to generate threat = what's the big deal you're having coming up with a tanking spec?
roguedubb Jul 17th 2008 8:41PM
Wasn't it previously mentioned that damage tanking will be more prevalent, thus making those seemingly superfluous DK DPS talents good for tanking too?
I've always thought the notion of low-damage high-threat tanking was odd. Why exactly would a raid boss stand there beating on some heavily armored punk who's doing low damage? Oh yeah, they're calling the boss names.
Sylythn Jul 17th 2008 8:45PM
As you're trying to build up your tanking build here's some thoughts I kept in mind - reactive healing will likely be threat attributable to you and if it holds with other forms of healing, it's 2x the threat so all those healing talents will help keep you up and keep you in threat. Second, abandon all attempts at getting 61 or even 51 point talents - I found what seems to be a kick ass hybrid build with 20-30 points in each tree. And lastly, don't think about it like you would existing tanks, you're not building a tank out of surviving fights, you're building a tank out of beating the unholy shit out of things.
Baluki Jul 17th 2008 9:07PM
I definitely agree that they need to take a good look at Enhancement shaman abilities, but I'm really interested in seeing them improve the Elemental tree more. The new Elemental talents are nice, but they're mostly PvP-focused, and there's not a lot there for PvE. Elemental needs its own Unleashed Rage or Stormstrike - something that either buffs the party by doing damage, or debuffs the target with a primary nuke.
I wrote a lot about it on my blog, if anyone cares.
http://baluki.blogspot.com/2008/06/wlk-shaman-talents-and-spells-leaked.html