Forum post of the day: How to Rogue
by Amanda Dean 
Jul 18th 2008 at 5:30AM
We learn a lot form playing on our own, but by doing only that we can miss some of the nuances of our class. We can also read up on classes on websites like this one or specialty forums. Some people would like to be taught in a more direct manner. At some points, we've all taken others under our wings to show them the ropes. Most of us have gotten a few pointers along the way. We have mentors in most of our roles in life, so doesn't it make sense to have them in WoW as well?
It can be hard to directly ask for assistance, especially in a places as prone to ridicule as the WoW General Forums. Apollymi of Greymane is looking for someone to teach her to be a better rogue. She said she's read the right guides but hasn't gotten the necessary experience to match other Rogues. She's looking for someone to mentor her in all things Roguish.
To some this sounded a bit creepy, but others tried to be helpful. One suggestion was to level to 70 and follow the instructions in the guides. I have to disagree with that suggestion. Part of the point of leveling is to learn to play your class along the way. Many pointed out resources for up-and-coming rogues.
Bonar of Dragonblight took the time to offer a friendly, though not entirely eloquent, list of suggestions:
1) Combat is a nice leveling spec. Grab Riposte as well - it'll mitigate damage and is like a sinister strike for ten energy. Don't forget to grab BF, AR, combat potency, blah blah blah... as far as weapon specializations go... people will say "GO SWARDSWARDSWARDSWARDSWARDSWARD OMG NOOB," but really you have to consider the best equipment available to you before considering a specialization. That being said, it's probably prohibitively expensive for an alt to respec every three levels when he finds a new fist/sword/mace that is 3 DPS higher than his old one. Your best bet is SWARDSWARDSWARDSWARDSWARDSWARDSWARDSWARDSWARDSWARDOMGOMG.
2) Use your cooldowns - Blade Flurry, Adrenaline Rush, and Evasion are too good and on cooldowns too short to be used as "OHSHI--" buttons. Double pull when you've got BF, 3x/4x pull when you've got BF/AR/Evasion up. It helps mix things up as well.
3) Slice and Dice is your friend, and always will be. Your first combo point(s) on a mob should be spent on SnDing him ASAP.
4) Just because you HAVE stealth doesn't mean you need to spend all of your time in it. When I was leveling it surprised me how many Rogues thought it was cool to stay in stealth when moving from spawn to spawn. It's an incredibly sweet class feature that lets you skip a bunch of tedious crap, but Jesus, guys - lrn2aggroradius? Hell, sometimes it's just faster to run up to his face and sinister strike him for your first CP.
5) Put the weapon with the highest damage range in your MH. Weapon speed doesn't matter, even if this means putting your slower weapon in your OH. You'll run into this issue when you have both the RFD and SM swords. It feels so wrong, but you know it's right. Damage range, people - srs bizness.
The original poster does seem earnest in her willingness to learn a new and difficult class. My guess is that she will read up on the suggestions, but still find many of her questions unanswered. I hope she finds someone to show her around.
Would you be willing to take on a mentor/apprentice relationship in WoW?
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Leveling, Guides, Alts, Forums, Forum Post of the Day
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
VSUReaper Jul 18th 2008 5:53AM
I already do with some of my guildies. I play as an accomplished priest (raiding Holy, PVP as both Disc and Shadow) and I am always willing to sit down with someone and listen to their questions and offer advice.
I also play as a warrior tank and have become quite decent at it. I still have a ton of room to improve with, but I am more than willing to sit down and talk with someone who is just hitting 70 and trying to put together their first set of lvl 70 tanking gear: offer advice on chants, gear, reputations, and certain quests. Just cause I stumbled through something doesn't mean that everyone else should :D
Fireflash38 Jul 18th 2008 1:15PM
Terrible advice about the weapons.
You want the weapon with the highest average damage in your MH, and fastest weapon possible in your OH.
OH damage is low % of your overall damage, and you want the CP and poison procs.
Since Hemo/SS are both normalized, it is based on teh damage, not just the speed. But speed * DPS gives you the average damage, so generally the lower the speed the higher the average damage.
Go to elitistjerks.com for a more in depth write up
Tom Jul 18th 2008 5:59AM
about the staying in stealth all the time, While not mandatory if your combat, If you've chosen any other spec an oppening move is extremely important especially if your subtlety. Even if you're combat, then cheap chot will give you 2 combo points for that slice n' dice
SilentBob Jul 18th 2008 11:42AM
Yes, but with CS you also mess with your tank's ability to generate rage, and thereby threat. Personally, I start with Garotte and with the 2pc T4 bonus 1pt S&D is more than adequate for a CP rotation - 1SD/5Rup rinse & repeat.
Tom Jul 18th 2008 12:38PM
I sort of meant when you were soloing, otherwise i agree, Garotte is a better oppener in groups, much less instant threat, and only use ambush if you salv and shadowstep right before to get the 50% threat reduction
Clevins Jul 18th 2008 3:01PM
Silentbob... presuming your tank is a warrior or druid.... my pally friends just don't rage... :)
Nesh Jul 18th 2008 6:03AM
To an extent, I'd say that there are a lot of mentor-apprentice relationships all around WoW, but most of them just don't come out so obviously.
For my part, I've spent a lot of time in different guilds (raiding pre-TBC, casual and raiding in TBC) and tried to take a new player of the same class "under my wing" whenever I saw that there was something to improve and as long as the players were willing to push their skills to the limits of the game. Some did, others didn't, but I'm content in the knowledge that at least one person I've helped became a very good player.
This happens all the time between class leaders and guild members, on a certain level. However, getting an option to actually make apprenticeships "official" in the same fashion as guilds would be a nice RPish touch to WoW. For example: "Tyrande " and "Retro "
Just a thought. ;)
david.edward.myers Jul 18th 2008 6:05AM
Having played a rogue for almost 2+ years now, I love helping fledgling rogues learn the ropes... Sure people make fun of rogues saying, "Oh, you have more buttons than 3? Stun, hemo and vanish!??", but surely when you play one, this is not the case. So many abilities that have to be used at exactly the right time, in such a fast succession, I find that sometimes I can't even explain what I do because it all happens so fast. Sure the rogue has been the target of massive QQ the past few months, as people are unlocking the true power of the class... but getting to that point is no small feat. If you guys have never taken the time or had the opportunity to help a person to learn how to play your class, I highly recommend it! It's so much fun to see people go.. "OH!! Thats why I hit like a wet noodle!" (and I think no, thats because Blizz nerfed Sinister Calling...) Teach a noob today!
Lerxst Jul 18th 2008 8:59AM
@5 - david.edward.myers
"Sure the rogue has been the target of massive QQ the past few months, as people are unlocking the true power of the class... but getting to that point is no small feat."
Past few months? Rogues have *always* been the target of massive QQ, generally with good reason. If you never saw them, and can still find them, try to find the World of Roguecraft videos. It's pre-TBC, and not as relevant now, but they're still entertaining to watch.
Sneakylass Jul 25th 2008 12:02PM
This question is on wow in fighting in general and I’m hoping you can help me. My character is a lvl 70 rogue, been lvl 70 for about 6 months and I play almost every day for several hours. I have a subtlety spec 41 sub/ 20 assassination. My gear is all epic except for 1 ring and my trinkets which are blue yet. The epic gear is about 50% S1, 30% S2, 20% S3 & S4. I am continually upgrading it. I currently have about 1,600 attack power, 492 agility, 630 Stamina, & 222 Resilience. You could see my character at the wow armory, Sneakylass in Daggerspine. I tried using a combat spec, but changed because I see most of the top rogues use the subtlety spec. I have been playing the arenas a little and I’m terrible at it. I also don’t do well with the pvp fighting in the bg, or in general. I’m embarrassed to ask people to play in the arena teams, because I do so poorly. I see other rogues that just “kick butt” and do very well. 95% of the time I fight another rogue, I get beat. I really want to learn how to excel in that area. Can you give me any pointers, or direct me to someone, or some guide that will help. I need very specific details on how to move, what to use, how to use it, what to do, etc. I sure hope you can help me with this. Thank you
theyetti Jul 18th 2008 6:06AM
Uhh, anyone else getting the first link say its address is "One suggestion was to level to 70 and follow the instructions in the guides. I have to disagree with that suggestion. Part of the point of leveling is to learn to play your class along the way. Many pointed out resources for up-and-coming rogues." with a bunch of %20's in there? Wtf?
Sirg Jul 18th 2008 6:05AM
I learned most of the more advanced rogue tricks and stuff when I joined my first serious raiding guild. Then I started to "steal" roguecraft from other rogues, looking at their armory page, gear picks and watching them play.
You have to learn when to use your combo points, or for how many you should go in a certain fight. Sometimes you go out of energy before the 5th cp and if you wait to get enough energy for the next cp, you might lose dps, but if you use the 4 cps, you'll get energy (depending on spec) so you have to experiment and learn to adapt. You have to learn when to use "evis" or rupture, because in raids, rupture can be better than evis... but in pvp or grinding you need burst damage.
Anyway, don't do noob things, like leaving a city without poisons and flash powder, use ammo pouches :D or caster trinkets
Dominace Jul 18th 2008 6:23AM
Leveling in combat was by far the most boring thing I've done. When I started my second rogue, I went with assassination (till relentless trikes)/sub till hemo was available, then I paid the 1g respec fee and went into fullsub.
Tbh, it was significantly more fun. If I went this way before, I would of learned rogue classes allot better than that if I went with combat. Much do to the fact that this build is pretty much to the core of how a rogue will work, the timely use of cooldowns (allot of oh sh!t buttons in sub) and the reliance of openers coupled with the added bonus of improved stealth (which made those dungeon quests REALLY easy) it helped me learn my class allot better. Sure it might be a slower leveling, but it isn't that slow in comparison.
It also made the battlegrounds whilst leveling a hell of allot easier (not really noticeable in the 19-29 brackets 49+ it made a huge difference).
I don't raid, pvp is my thing, but even if I was aiming to raid, going combat wouldn't of really taught me much, since in raids you generally revolve around threat/rotation management which whilst leveling is non exsistant past the basics.
Worcester Jul 18th 2008 12:49PM
I agree completely.
So many... FAR too many people assume that all players want to burn through to level 70.
The Combat Spec might be preferable for a 70 raiding rogue, but for those of us who solo, Sub is great.
shoemanchris Jul 18th 2008 6:24AM
I want to take issue with your statement about weapons. OH weapon is primarily about applying poisons, hence the fast speed...more chance to miss before hit capped, therefore more hits/fight > less hits per fight.
High damage weapons = slower weapons unless you are lucky enough to drop a world/instance rare or epic that is several levels above your current weapon.
Generally, telling a new rogue slow main fast off will achieve what you want (ie max damage) without confusing them as to the principles of maxing output.
Soriel Angelfyre Jul 18th 2008 7:44AM
also if specced in combat (can't remember the talent) energy is gained for each offhand hit
Turn Jul 18th 2008 8:23AM
I agree, also if you are heavy combat you will have combat potency (eventually), using this talent to its fullest is really essential for DPS.
At lower levels though when you are relying on SS to pump out the damage and you don't even have poisons, let alone Combat Potency, then damage range > weapon speed
bmiller Jul 18th 2008 9:24AM
Later in the comment they mention the SM and RFK swords, which are:
-nicer than just about anything for that level
-guaranteed to drop for you because they're quest reward items (why waste your time running a dungeon over and over to get that special rare weapon, get out there and level!)
-both are the same melee stats (damage & speed) with slightly different bonus stats
It's the last one where min/maxers get all flustered about. Both of these weapons are great and will last a combat swords rogue a very long time. At 46, I got rid of one and got the Rune sword of the monkey (same DPS, 1.6 speed, +6 AGI +5 Stam). I still need to get a Maura group to get my Thrash blade
Loudfiero Jul 18th 2008 8:04AM
Lesson #1 - PICK POCKET
This will net you all the mats you need for poisons, flash powder and extra gold! Yeah, it makes levelling slower, but is saves you trips to a town to restock and gets you richer quicker... Also, certain mobs can have Star Ruby(s) and other valuables on them. At one point I was selling How to Cook Man(s) for 80s...seriously.
Also, I am laughed at by Warriors and Pallies that have higher AP than me...yet they later bitch about me taking aggro from them. Wah, cry me a river. If I die, I die, if I don't complain, why should you, I should have vanished to give you your aggro back. No, I don't want Salvation, the dodge bonus I get from Agility will keep me alive longer than depending on Salvation...
I have tanked Sethekk Halls as a rogue in Dungeon Set 3 (Assassination) gear with Vindicator's accessories and Some Deathblow X11 Goggles. Why do Pallies think they need to protect me with Salvation. Just because you wear plate and have higher AP doesn't mean I can't kick your ass.
...which leads me to lesson #2
Lesson #2: Learn to Vanish!
and then tell Pallies to stfu...and take their salvation and shove it up their arse.
Lesson #3: Learn to Distract!
see description for Lesson #2...
Plethora Jul 18th 2008 11:07AM
Pickpocket won't slow down your leveling, just macro it too your opening attacks...
/cast Pick Pocket
/cast sap (or whatever...I have it on all my stealthed moves)
Just remember to turn auto-loot on =)
PS...what's with all the aggression towards pally's ? =p