Wrath Beta patch notes: Rogue
The long awaited Wrath of the Lich King beta is hitting the masses and the patch notes are out. As you've seen regarding other classes there is a ton of really exciting news. Right off the bat Blizzard is changing stat itemization in regards to +Hit and +Crit to a more generalized Hit Rating and Critical Strike Rating. These stats, which in the past had been separated into melee and spell versions are now a single stat that can be attributed to any class. For classes with mixed or hybrid functions, this should greatly assist overall gearing. Rogues should see no overall changes in the way the Hit or Crit mechanic works on pre WotLK gear other than just wording on the tooltip.I have to say that the changes that Rogues can expect aren't of the world-shaking variety, but many of them serve as excellent clean up improvements.
A number of these initial changes can be lumped in the "that's-great-probably-should-have-been-this-way-all-along" category. Even so, let's spend just a moment discussing them.
Non-invasive changes
For a start, WotLK has removed the need for at least two kinds of reagents: lock picking tools and Flash Powder. I'm not sure Rogues were really suffering for the two bag slots or the on-going reagent cost for the powder, but I suppose that it's one less thing we have to think about when spamming box-opening skills in trade channel. Most Rogues I know use an automated poison mod Hemlock that will automate the purchasing and creation of poisons and Flash Powder so running out wasn't really an issue (or was it?).
Another small change is to Deadened Nerves in the Assassination tree, which will reduce all damage by 1/2/3/4/5%, which is a change from physical damage only. I see this as yet another talent clean-up since damage mitigation should not be based on style (e.g. casting damage vs. smacked-in-the-face-with-a-big-stick damage), and really, if I've sunk 30 points into a tree, that talent really should be a little more multi-faceted.
While we're still lumping the minor changes, both Kick and Gouge received a shiny polish. Gouge, an in-combat talent that incapacitates the target for up to 5.5 seconds (fully talented) and causes 105 damage has been buffed to require only a single talent point (down from a maximum of three) and will have its damage modified by attack power. I don't have the calculations yet on what the overall possible damage may be but I'd expect it to be consistent with other Attack Power modifying skills. Frankly, I'd be willing to move the Gouge change into the more substantial category of "I-can't-wait-for-this", but I'd have to see its use in PvP first. Kick, a highly desirable PvE and PvP skill, was adjusted to remove the damage component and reduce its talented portion by giving it just one level. I'm not really sure why kick ever had a damage element (I checked the tool-tip, and it's not "kick in the groin"), and you know it's not really a scale-tipper when you don't ever see any PvP videos regaling the "highest kick crit evah on cloth....over 9000!". I'd like Kick to have a shorter cool-down though, ten seconds can really be forever.
Changes with bite
Ok, we can now move on to the changes that I'm most happy about and would really like to see in action. Primarily, Rogues are constantly balancing Energy vs. Combo Point generation and talents that can add points based on passive skills are win in my book. Setup, which can generate a Combo Point on a dodge or resist (by you) has been buffed to 33/66/100% based on points allocated. This can be a really big improvement in PvP since dodge and resist stacking abilities; talents and gear is core to the class. With a high degree of dodge a rogue can have a 100% chance to add combo points, which improves the point to energy ratio since the combo gain was passive. Nice.
Premeditation, a talent in the Subtlety tree, can be activated while in Stealth to add two immediate combo points to a target, useable within ten seconds of application. This was buffed to twenty seconds, a really nice improvement since stealth speed is generally handicapped by 30%. There have been plenty of times that I just couldn't reach the target in those ten seconds, due to AoE effects, Flare or other environmental issues. Fleet Footed also received a nice balancing change, moving it from a resist change on movement impairing effects to a duration modifier (25/50%) based on points talented to it. I am not fond of talents that have a large randomness to it (a la Blade Twisting) and that cannot be counted on to work ever. With the change to Fleet Footed it will now work every time and the more points you put into it (up to two) will always reduce the duration of any movement issues. One of our biggest issues is being kited around, or in PvE being stuck while a boss unloads on you. This will give you a passive 50% reduction in effect duration. Sweet.
So I mentioned Blade Twisting up there a moment ago. It's a lot better now that it's not tied to a few attacks but is now based off of any attack that causes damage. However, because it has a random element to it (even if it is 10%), I'd advise keeping away from it and applying those points to other things in that tree.
Finally, Vile Poisons and Riposte received nice buffs. Riposte used to be a talent in the Combat tree that would allow you to disarm your target for six seconds, PvP and PvE applications, after a parry and do 150% weapon damage to the target. Now we get a 20% slow on targets attacks to you, which is a better PvE trade off since many mobs don't use weapons anyway and cannot be disarmed. Vile Poisons has had its ranks reduced so you need to put fewer points into it to get the maximum 20% buff. That gives Mutilate builds an extra 2 points to put elsewhere, which is always a winner in my book.
So, dear reader, you've got a starting glimpse at what is in store for the class post-expansion, and for the most part, is good news. I would have liked to have seen more improvements around Stealth and Sap and certainly a for-sure fix for the woe that is Vanish, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for the next batch of class news that comes out.
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Expansions, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
below Jul 19th 2008 11:39AM
Probably still no fix on vanish. Meh.
First?
Zerker Jul 19th 2008 11:57AM
why don't they put a delay on the stealth component of Vanish. I.E you are immune to all damage/attacks for 1 second before the vanish and after.
most of the things that break stealth are actions that are already in motion before vanish is cast, this fact plus latency can see you on your client get the vanish off only to have it broken, when in actual fact the hit came before dropping combat. But if you were immune to that action then it wouldn't break your stealth.
I'm looking forward to trying out the new talents, especially the top talents in Subtlety and Combat. Ninja minded Rogue players that have been watching too much Naruto have been long asking for shadow clones, and the combat talent is kind of like that..... well it has potential and I want to see how Blizz implements it.
The subtlety talent screams out with Damage and CC potential, Ambush and Cheapshot being able to be used more than once a fight without putting vanish on cooldown? lets see how that goes.
tehvoid Jul 19th 2008 11:53AM
I'll repeat myself from another thread:
From what we have seen so far, Rogue is still an egoist class, no buffs or any utility for party and raid members. An with Turn the Tables* particularly, rogue class is more than before an "opportunist" class.
Sure sap has been improved to others than humanoids but making it usable in combat would grant the rogue more weight while considering a last dps. If the new gouge would do that, that will be fine with rogues' cc but there's still the lack of utilities :s
All other class has at least one, why not rogues?
I'm sure that's difficult to invent one, but I hope the dev had given it a try.
*([Turn the Tables] Whenever anyone in your party or raid blocks, dodges, or parries an attack your chance to critically hit with all combo moves is increased by 2% for x sec)
Jurm Jul 19th 2008 1:10PM
While rogues do lack party buffs and whatnot, a few of us (not many) are mildly proud of that fact. Honestly, rogues are one of the few 'pure' classes left. Too many other classes are turning into do-it-all swiss army knives. If a priest, druid, shaman, or paladin asks to join your party, you have to go thru a whole interview to find out what role they're capable of playing there. And then they roll "need" on everything in there because just about anything that drops can be used for one of their many equipment sets. They re-spec to the flavor of the week build, and are surprised that the rest of the guild doesn't know that they're dps now instead of healing. After a while, it feels a little generic.
Groups used to invite rogues for their CC, ability to stealth (scout ahead), and to pick the locks on all the chests that nobody else had access too. Now as blizz expands everyone else's talent trees, there's less and less left that makes us rogues - or any other class- really unique.
I'm not sure if remapping builds is really the answer anymore anyway. And yes, I am a little bitter. Sorry for the rant.
Xaphan Jul 19th 2008 11:56AM
Blizz "Rogues, here are your changes"
Rogues "WTF?"
Blizz "Here's a cookie" /runs
Rogues "WTF?"
I think that sums up a good portion of how many people feel right now.
Clevins Jul 19th 2008 12:15PM
Yeah. If this is all of the changes we see....
Blizz really needs to add some raid-wide buff that we can bring or other utility. DPS alone isn't enough with other classes coming close (or being ahead depending on tier and encounter). The original Hemo change in 2.3.0 was nice, but that was nerfed along with the Hemo damage (and just got nerfed again in 2.4.3) so...
But right now I have no in-combat CC (wtb Blowdart stun!), no way to buff the abilities of my group or raid and I'm sorry but while Kick is nice... it's not all that. Give us some way to increase the melee damage or debuff the boss that makes a noticeable difference... please! (and I still want poisonable Blowdarts!!)
Erika Jul 19th 2008 1:39PM
I have been saying this for a while. Dont give me the pure class bs. Every class except rogues can help the party/raid somehow.
Warrior=Shouts
Priests=Fort
Locks=Candy
Mage=Food
Druid= Every form except cat that I know of. Nobody Cares about travel or water.
Hunter has Trueshot or misdirection
Palidin=Buffidin
Shaman=Pick a totem
Barish Jul 19th 2008 1:55PM
Agree!
darian Jul 19th 2008 2:40PM
Personally, I'd like to be an egoist.
The problem is that the sum of our DPS and utility is not enough to warrant our position in a raid, correct? So why is it then that everyone says, "Therefore, let us be exactly like every other class and have utility" rather than "Perhaps our DPS should be increased"?
I like the idea of raid synergy, but I think there should be at least one class that says, "Screw it, I'm in this for me."
Kittimm Jul 19th 2008 12:06PM
Yea, let's lower the cooldown on kick. I mean it's only 5 seconds lockdown every 10secs. And us rogues DO struggle so. And it's not like we have any other interupt effects like KS, Gouge, Blind, CS, Garotte, DT, Macestun + a never ending pushback stream only bettered by a hunter.
The riposte change is a straightout nerf PVP-wise, which is a great shame. At points I've given up ShS to gain riposte and sweeping strikes - and the tradeoff is quite sensible still.
With 20% slower attack speed...it'll be useful but nowhere near like it was. It's both a sensible change and a shame.
I don't see the PVE side being that useful, either. Unless you're levelling or grinding, the mob shouldn't be hitting you for you to perform a parry anyhow. Most other mobs will die long before this is largely useful.
And no vanishing powder is great news. 20 powders? I honestly didn't think anyone just kept a single stack in their bag. I've got 200-odd of them on me right now. It's not like I'm going to use them in a single sitting, but it's nice not to have to run to the vendor each and every time i want to do anything.
Lowering Gouge talent points is a huge change when you consider the versatility of the skill and how accessible it is. I try to include it in all my builds, so lower cost is a big saving. The kick cost being lowered is just common sense. Noone in their right mind will spend 1 point there instead of 2.
Same goes for imp.sprint, though...
JPN Jul 19th 2008 12:20PM
I generally only keep 2 stacks on me anyway.
But keeping 200...at minimum, if you use one every five minutes, you'll run out in 16 hours and 20 minutes...best case scenario...do you really need that many?
Mediator Jul 19th 2008 12:54PM
JPN, a PvP rogue will go through flash powder very quickly, because you'll vanish 2-3 times a fight, and each fight will reset the cooldown and prep's cooldown... yes 200 flash powder sounds about right, because if you run out of a reagent and lose because of it, you will definitely beat yourself up about it
JPN Jul 19th 2008 12:16PM
Lots of PvP-friendly changes. Seems like not a lot new for PvE rogues, but I haven't read any other information, this is the first.
I do kind of like the "solo" feeling of rogues (no group buffs, buffs for others, etc.) but it can get old.
bumble Jul 19th 2008 12:26PM
more pvp easymode for rogues it seems
squeama Jul 19th 2008 1:05PM
WAH!
Got kilt by gnomes lately?
/sap
/pickpocket
nothin here, guys!
--Squeama, Feathermoon
Tiny Dancer
...of death
bumble Jul 19th 2008 1:08PM
I prefer pants to kilts.
-bumble
who doesn't see
the use
in huge ass
signatures
on comments
Metzli Jul 19th 2008 12:22PM
We don't need raid buffs and imba cc...we only have one rule in a raid...dps dps dps...
We're the nr1 single target dps class, give us more and the rogue class would be OP
Saithir Jul 19th 2008 12:44PM
10 seconds cooldown on an interrupt is nice even without lowering it, since shield bash and counterspell both have 25 or so seconds CD.
And with no group buffs, oh well, rogues are about damage, and that's why we get invited, so who cares ;)
We *do* have some kind of a buffs, though - Expose Armor for example. It's not widely used and useless with a warrior tank, but we have it. :)
Anyway... the changes are mostly minor, as I still wait for AoE damage and Throw Specialization (interrupt on Deadly Throw without PvP gear? sounds sweet for me).
Derick Jul 19th 2008 12:50PM
Well, the flash powder thing is nice because I never have just 1 stack with me. I usually stockpile 100 with me, so its really gonna be 6 slots I'm getting back.
I like that right there.
Rewolf Jul 19th 2008 1:57PM
Uhm, 100 pieces of flash powder equals 5 stacks.
:D