Ask a Lore Nerd: Now now, there's enough Light for everybody

Aydinn of Cenarion Circle wrote in to ask...
My question is (which may seem obvious to some), who is the goblin statue at Booty Bay? Why does he deserve a statue?
Answer: Thanks for writing in! Good to hear from people from my home server. That statue on Janeiro Isle might be of Baron Revilgaz, the overseer and top dog of Booty Bay. He deserves a statue because... he wanted a statue, and he's freaking Baron Revilgaz. He runs the show. Really, though, it's kind of a generic Goblinoid figure so it could be nobody at all.
At one time, it was a statue of a Human Priest. It's a nod to a really cool landmark here in the real world. It's based on Christ the Redeemer, a statue found in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. You may recognize it from an episode of Lupin III. Eh? No? ...oh. Oh well. It's a pretty awesome sight to see in real life regardless of whether you put faith in what it represents or not. The in-game model was likely changed from a Human to a Goblin to back away from the religious overtones while keeping the reference, and Goblins fit the area better anyway.
Llowe's question comes in two parts...
My main is Forsaken, and I play on an RP server. My character is morally ambiguous leaning towards "good"; she is aware of the Royal Apothecary Society's plague but does not support the notion of targeting it en masse at anything but the Scourge, which she loathes. She is an ardent supporter of the Argent Dawn and greatly admires Leonid Barthalomew the Revered. (The question's coming up, I swear!)
There is little current lore support for "good" Forsaken. It is clear, however, that not all free-willed undead casualties of the Scourge of Lordaeron actively support the goals of Sylvanas and the RAS. Is there any reason to believe that there could currently be, or some day may form or come to light, a faction of undead who actually...
- Wish to deal honestly and openly with other races, and perhaps even seek reconciliation with living races outside those of the Horde?
- Would embrace or, at least, tolerate an endeavor towards finding a "cure" or something of that sort (like what the Earthen Ring / Thrall & Co. were supposedly duped into thinking they wanted)?
- Are not consumed with single-minded hate and wickedness (and other symptoms of malnourished plotting and one-dimensional cultural characterization on Blizzard's part)?
In short: Yes, I would say it's possible, but a widespread acceptance of being 'good' is unlikely anytime soon. Leonid Barthalomew is a good example of it being possible. The Cult of the Forgotten Shadow is a good example of it not being widespread.
Question: It is a disappointing (to me) but inescapably canon fact that the Light seems to have abandoned the Forsaken in their undeath. Disheartening for any "good" undead, indeed. Forsaken priests follow, rather, the Shadow. Fine, but I think it would be great if there could be a way for Forsaken to wield the Light once more... Though I doubt that will happen, can you conceive of some other way that undead individuals might be able to become Light-wielding Priests or Paladins? Or could undead Paladins be possible some other way?
Answer: Again, this is going to be largely my personal opinion rather than canon lore. The old RPG books say that no, the Forsaken absolutely cannot wield the Light as it would destroy them. However, revelations (and game mechanics to a lesser extent) in WoW make this a little less... extreme and absolute. I would say that the way has been paved for it to be possible in the future. Remember, the Blood Elves claim that the Light had forsaken them, but they're buddy-buddy with A'dal now.
The 'Holy' in Warcraft tends to be a mindset type of thing nowadays, though the Naaru definitely are a presence. If you have the devotion and dedication, and you're the right type of person, you can return to the Light. The Forsaken falling to the Scourge obviously severed any previous ties to the Light, whether that be for physiological or psychological reasons, and if they want to regain it they need to not be huge ass jerks trying to murder puppies. I could see Barthalomew as the first Forsaken Paladin. Heck, he's looking for a 'cure' for Undeath. Maybe after WoW, some of the Forsaken will return to the living. Who knows? Nothing is absolute in Warcraft, really. All we know is that right now, we've been told it's not possible for the Forsaken. One day, it may be.
That sounds like a good RP hook to me. A Forsaken trying to find a way to regain their connection to the Light? I'm sure it's been done more than once on every RP server out there, but that doesn't make it any less fun. I say roll with it, and see what happens. Be creative!
Siona asks...
If the Blood Knights no longer have the Naaru in the basement to feed off of, what's supplying their powers now? Are they considered "true" Paladins?
Answer: The Blood Knights (at least the ones that consider Lady Liadrin their Matron) have joined A'dal and his forces. Additionally, when Kil'jaeden is defeated in the Sunwell Plateau, Prophet Velen uses the remains of M'uru to reignite the Sunwell, but as a source of Light. We'll see if the Blood Elves remember that gesture of kindness in Wrath, eh?
Tunza asks...
Tauren and Centaur have been at war for some time. With all the content relating to Orcs and Humans at the centre of WoW and the side stories of the elves, dwarves, forsaken and trolls, do you think that the Tauren story will ever be told in more detail in WoW? Is there any likelihood of a Tauren storyline in Northrend (frozen cows?)?
Answer: I'm sure you've heard since you originally asked this question, but the chances of this happening are very good! In fact, it is a 100% chance. Taunka are cousins of the Tauren. While Tauren are like cows and bulls, Taunka are more like buffalo or bison. While they're an independent race nowadays they share ancestry with the Tauren, so it's very very likely we'll learn more of Tauren origins and perhaps their relation to the Titans. You know, if they have one.
rawrawrawr asks...
If Night Elves (especially druids) are so hating of arcane magics, why do they use arcane spells such as moonfire/starfire?
Answer: Moonfire and Starfire, technically, do not come from the same source as things like Arcane Missiles. Their source is literally the moon, Elune for the Night Elves. The Tauren don't particularly worship Elune, but she's very heavily tied to Druidism and the Tauren do have a name for her: Mu'sha. If it weren't for game mechanics, it would probably do 'moon damage' or something like that, but it would be really silly for them to implement another school of magic for two spells and would add unnecessary work for the devs and the players.
Celton asks...
Why are there satyrs in Maraudon (Lord Vyletongue, etc)? From my understanding, Maraudon has nothing to do with demons or the Burning Legion... it's all corrupt elementals and centaurs.
Answer: Good, old fashioned Burning Legion jackassery is afoot. Much of Desolace is overrun by demons thanks to the Burning Blade, and only the Horde and Alliance presence there is slowing it down at all. Despite Desolace's desolateness, Maraudon is still a seat of power for the element of Earth on Azeroth- the ugly chickadee at the end is the daughter of an Elemental Lord. So regardless of whatever freaky interspecies relationships are going down there, it's a very verdant and alive region. The Burning Legion hates things that are verdant, so it's corruption time!. Also, maybe they think an earth elemental and a horse-thing making love is gross. Because hey, it is.
Reziel asks...
In Warcraft 3, there was a separate type of murloc used in the swampland tile sets that was different from the murlocs in the "Azeroth" tile sets. I think they were called Mur'gul, but I'm not sure. Do you know of any real differences between these two appearance-wise, lore-wise, or other?
Answer: The Mur'gul are sort of an offshoot of the Murloc race. According to the RPG books, the Mur'gul were once Murlocs, and were twisted by demonic influence. So it's a little bit like the Night Elves becoming Satyrs, Blood Elves becoming Felbloods, et cetera.
The Mur'gul are described as exceptionally cruel and sadistic, enjoying to torture and play with their prety before they kill and eat it. They hunt in swarms, but will easily turn on eachother if they're hungry enough. They have thicker hides and more pronounced claws/spines than Murlocs, and they're definitely more aggressive and feral.
Marc wrote in to ask...
Was the Eastern Kingdom always called the Eastern Kingdom? After all, if they didn't know about Kalimdor, how did they know they were the Eastern Kingdom?
Answer: This one is going to be a bit shaky, because the lore tries to justify the gameplay changes made in Warcraft over the years. Kalimdor didn't exist in the beginning. However, I'll give it a shot!
When the name Azeroth (derived from 'Azotha' which is the name of the early humans) was first used, it was used to reference the collection of human kingdoms in the world. The name Azeroth was eventually used to refer to the entire known world, not just Human land. At the time, the entire known world was only really the Eastern continent. The Trolls and High Elves knew otherwise, but they weren't very social people at the time. After all the many wars went down, Humans and their allies were the dominant races, and the winners write the history books. Azeroth stuck as its name.
Once Kalimdor came around, the term stayed in use to refer to the entire world. The eastern continent became the Eastern Kingdoms, and the western continent retained its ancient name of Kalimdor. Amusingly, if the civil ancient races hadn't kept to themselves, the world might still be named Kalimdor instead of Azeroth.
That's about all that we have time for this week, and I apologize if I haven't gotten to your question yet! I have a lot of questions and I try to get everyone unless your question is a repeat, or needs a more thorough answer like our special on faith and religion. I will get everyone sooner or later though, so don't worry! If you still have a question and don't mind the wait, feel free to ask in the comments section below or write in to lorenerd@wow.com!
Filed under: Undead, Analysis / Opinion, Lore, Wrath of the Lich King, Ask a Lore Nerd






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Sean Riley Jul 20th 2008 7:41PM
While it's far from canon, I've always liked this stance regarding 'good' Forsaken:
All undead, all of them, are insane. This is a natural consequence of being taken away from life. It's why ghosts are vengeful and cannot move from the places and times of their life, it's why ghouls go bugnuts and rip everything apart. It's why Sylvanus's desire for revenge goes beyond sensible and into obsessive territory. You can't be undead and sane.
For most undead, this warps into vengeful paranoia and meglomania, as we've seen. If you're not buying into this, it's because some OTHER insanity is filling the gap.
I like this approach because it makes sure that your Forsaken character remains broken, while giving you more play options.
Llowe Jul 20th 2008 8:12PM
(@ Sean Riley) Hah, agreed. There's plenty of in-game text supporting the idea that the Forsaken are all pretty much off their collective rockers, so to speak. And it does a good job of explaining the prevalence of malice and cruelty among the undead while still allowing them a path to "goodness."
(@ Alex) Thanks so much for getting to my question! I was afraid it was too long, but you tackled it just fine. =) Your answers basically confirm how I feel about it. Thanks for giving my favorite race some exposure, haha
Slavaa Jul 20th 2008 8:38PM
You sir, are State-of-Living... ist...
We undead are not insane, our hate for all living things is entirely rational.
Jayjay Jul 20th 2008 8:09PM
I know you answered Night Elf druids using Moonfire/Starfire but how are Night Elf priests allowed to use shadow spells? They are the most evil of all powers and it seems it is the only school that they use other than nature and arcane.
ILikePvPbuthatePvPers Jul 20th 2008 8:56PM
Game Mechanics =/= Storyline
Realistically the only Priests that should be able to use Shadow spells are Forsaken Priests because of their new religion and Troll Priests that specializes in Hexes.
As it stands now, even a human Holy Priest have a Shadow Spells in their arsenal. It's just game mechanics.
ILikePvPbuthatePvPers Jul 20th 2008 9:04PM
Oh and Shadow isn't evil per say. I think you're confusing Fel Magic with Shadow.
Fel Magic is Demonic and definitely evil. Shadow is a Divine power that's not necessarily evil. It's how you use it. Light and Shadow are two sides of the same coin. Afterall, you can use the Light to call holy fire down on your enemy's head.
It's like with Druids and the Arcane-based Moonfire and Starfire. Technically, they're not Arcane but game mechanics say they are. Warlock Shadow Spells are Fel Magic instead of actual Shadow Spells.
Eternauta Jul 20th 2008 10:23PM
What really confuses me is not how they cast shadow spells, but how undead priests can cast holy spells? I thought that the light has "Forsaken" them...
Yeah, I know its about game mechanics, but it would be more interesting (and believable) if this had a lore background.
Linkage Jul 20th 2008 11:58PM
Well, holy spells don't necessarily come from the light. Remember that BE paladins got holy spells without being blessed by the light. Granted they were draining a Naruu, but they found a different way, nonetheless.
Jessierockeron Jul 20th 2008 8:13PM
How come warlocks can summon people?
J. A. S. Jul 20th 2008 10:14PM
Well, they summon pets, right? There was probably a warlock a few decades ago that said to himself 'Hmmm. If I can summon a demon from another dimension, I wonder if I can summon that guy standing over there?' And thus, after a series of unsuccessful tests with less than willing test subjects, they managed to perfect the art of moving a being from one place to the other without losing any bits inbetween.
Somehow I imagine it was a gnome warlock that invented that spell.
Tridus Jul 20th 2008 9:53PM
The other (non lore) answer for what "Azeroth" refers to is that originally (Warcraft 1/2) it referred to the kingdom we now call Stormwind. Blizzard however needed a name for the world later, and the name "Azeroth" was really well known since it was the focal point of the first two games.
Drakthorn Jul 21st 2008 12:47AM
So when the lich king was losing power in wc3x, he lost control of sylvanas and she turned on him and arthas, creating the forsaken. Then at the end, the lich king joined with arthas and got all his power back, or at least started getting his power back. So how did the forsaken continue their independence when the lich king's strength returned? and how do they raise more forsaken that aren't controlled by the lich king without using his plague?
SaintStryfe Jul 21st 2008 1:02AM
+1 for Lupin III reference
Arajal Jul 21st 2008 1:13AM
@ Drakthorn:
When Ner'zhul lost too much power with his Lordaeron forces, the link broke, thus giving the Forsaken free will. Even though the Lick King was born when Arthas and Ner'zhul fused, the link was still broken, and the Forsaken had gained enough power to, in a sense, resist re-domination. According to lore, they are still struggling to keep their indepentance from the Lich King.
As for raising new Forsaken, it is probably a breakoff "plague" of sorts working in the favor of the Forsaken. That or they are using what little extra power they have to use powerful necromancy.
Avonar Jul 21st 2008 3:23AM
As usual, great stuff - I love seeing the questions that come up and their answers. Thanks!
Piers Jul 21st 2008 4:36AM
In answer to the "how do blood knights get their power" question, take a look at this quest in the line to get redemption: http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=9684
It says there that some of the belfs have soaked up enough of the light to continue providing it for others.
haircute Jul 21st 2008 5:16PM
Yeah, I really enjoy the lore nerd columns. I've only recently started delving in to the lore behind the game and it's made the experience much more enjoyable. My hardcore diablo days kind of turned me in to a questing machine by which I mean I don't even read the "flavor" text but just look at the objectives and go go go. Keep it up!
ramz Jul 21st 2008 6:27AM
why arent the forsaken being cured by jaina or any other powerfull sorcerer? (http://www.wowwiki.com/Wish)
Phil Jul 21st 2008 8:39AM
Probably because Wish is a D&D spell. Jaina's powerful but I don't think she's outright altered reality in-game, AFAIK.
thatquietgamerdude Jul 21st 2008 8:22AM
Is this where you ask questions for the next installment? I can't remember if I asked this before or not but here's my question: You see Burning Legion teleporters all over the place, bringing in demons from the Twisting Nether. Why did Kil'jaeden have to be summoned through the Sunwell? Couldn't he just step through one of the teleporters?