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7-23-2008 @ 8:58AM
the warriopr protection tree is indeed very nice and has recieved a lot of love.. though as a 51 pointer, shockwave is kindof lackluster, as it is more of a 5 man talent than it is a raid talent, or anything else really. Not something I'd spend 51 points to get as a MT for a raid.Fury has recieved some attention, though heroic leap is more of a gimmick than a worthy 51 pointer (again). Titan's grip seems to be hurting white damage quite a bit, and the 20% slow pushes the swings to the 4+ second marks.. which for a class based entirely on dealing damage to get rage, hurts a lot. Miss a swing or two? You'll be waiting a long time to get ANY rage.The arms tree is frankly pathetic. The biggest issue is that Mortal strike is such a prominent and *nescessary* talent... yet it's quite far into the tree (31 points). Other classes have had 21 pointers or other such talents moved into earlier tiers... MS could use the same (or be trained). In its current state... there's little to no reason to ever go past MS in the arms tree.Imp mortal strike: too many points for too little a benefit.Unrelenting assault: less of a cooldown on overpower.. which is a battle stance only ability, whereas warriors stay mostly in fury. Revenge is the same, nearly never used for arms warriors unless tanking, and even then..Bull Rush: making a short stun barely longer. eh.Endless Rage: was lackluster in TBC, still is. Too far down the tree.Strength of arms: warriors don't particularily need more health. Our gear gives plenty. But a 45 point talent giving a measly 5% strength, when a first tier paladin talent gives 15% for 5/5? Remove the health bonus of this talent, and increase the bonus.Bladestorm: definitely hope this gets changed. It looks good, huh? Nothing could be farther from the truth. It's not a CC *breaker*, only giving you immunity DURING the effect. You can still be Disarmed. You don't get any speed increase. Most importantly, you also get no rage (white hits and such) for 5 seconds while doing this.. and in a PVP environment that is an unnaceptable amount of time without rage generation. Overall warrior talents still seem very lackluster and mediocre, to outright bad in some cases. Except Protection tree, which looks good until shockwave.
7-23-2008 @ 10:06AM
Yea, I'm excited about the changes to the prot tree as well. I'm really curious how the change to crushing blows / shield block on a long CD is going to change warrior tanking. I think it's going to be positive for the other tanking classes and possibly a negative for the true "need" to have a warrior Main Tank.I think Shockwave has alot of potential in terms of flexibility and raid dynamics. You have to keep in mind that there are going to be four tanking classes now and one of the biggest gripes that warriors have is multi-mob aggro/tanking. With raid slots harder than ever for a tank to get, the more that you can do makes you that much more valuable. Whether we all like it or not, it appears the homogenizing of the tanking classes are on the way and probably here to stay.
7-23-2008 @ 10:25AM
Cheeno: the problem with shockwave at the moment is the cone effect. Simply put, you still have to dance and move about to get the mobs you want in shockwave's path.. or, move away to affect only those not CC'ed. Right now, it's still very hard to actually use the ability correctly, especially considering how mobs tend to form a semi circle around you.In effect, mobs form a U around you, but shockwave is a V. It's not affecting everythign it should (unlike say, thunderclap).And from what I'm reading, the threat generated by shockwave is around double of thunderclap... which itself isn't all that much. For a 51 pointer, it's of less use than say, devasate, or even shield slam which is now a trained ability. Again, it's not worth 51 points.
7-23-2008 @ 10:47AM
tchernobyl:Twice the threat as thunderclap but no target limit? Hell, I'll take it.Yes, I'll still have to run around and maybe even be forced to do those mid-air hunter arcane shots they do/did for kiting. Yes, it's not a lot of threat but considering it hits any mob in range and healing threat is divided against the all mobs in combat, warriors won't have to worry about non-CC'd mobs giving their healers dirty looks.It's not quite consecration nor does it allow warlocks and mages to nuke the place but it'll certainly help out in situations that require holding more than four targets at once.
7-23-2008 @ 10:52AM
If the threat is that poor, then I'd definitely agree with your assessment that Shockwave is a weak 51 point talent and I'd probably just skip it in my build if it went live that way. There are plenty other things in that tree that are far superior.Just curious, but are these threat numbers ones that you're parsing or are they from another site? I'm kinda chomping at the bit for some info.
7-23-2008 @ 10:53AM
GrumblyStuff: Yes, but there's no guarantee that you'll even *hit* what you want to hit. You have to aim the ability with near pinpoint accuracy to get every mob. Oh and... a stun component to a tank ability, where being *hit* gives you rage? Also not a good idea, as while stunned, you won't get hit... ie no rage.The talent is a great idea but poorly thought out and needs some revisions.(and for the love of god, why can i reply to comments, but not reply to replies of comments?!)
7-23-2008 @ 11:09AM
tchernobyl you are simultaneously complaining about the stun effect causing mobs not to hit you thus losing rage, and that the stun effect WON'T hit all mobs, thus NOT causing you to lose rage! lal@u!!certain pulls in e.g. shattered halls with more than 4 mobs that must be controlled would go more easily with this talent. It looks like it could be a better multimob opener than shield slam.I could also see it being very useful to stop mobs in their tracks when you lose 2 or 3 at once to the same aoer.
7-23-2008 @ 11:45AM
superfrank: the stun component can go to hell for all i care... what i'm "complaining" about is how the cone won't hit everything... ie the THREAT won't hit everything, which makes the ability kindof weak. Plus, protection more than anything is used for raiding, and as a 51 pointer, I'd like to see something that is used in more than say, 5 mans or just trash. As an ability, it will likely be ignored for shield slam/devastate against raid bosses.
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