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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsHunter pet aggro may be fixed in Wrath
by Daniel Whitcomb 
Jul 24th 2008 at 11:00AM
The story of Hunter pets and aggro in Burning Crusade, especially since patch 2.4.2 or so, has been a very stormy one. Even deep Beastmastery Hunters have had to learn to kite, as pet aggro grows worse and worse. Growl in 2.4.2 was supposed to scale, but almost every Hunter that tested it said it didn't, despite Hortus' insistence that it did.
Luckily, it looks like there may finally be some real relief coming in Wrath of the Lich King.
According to Ghostcrawler, they now realize that it's very easy for BC-era Hunters to pull aggro off their pets, and it's something that will be fixed in Wrath. Although they haven't done a full pass on threat generation yet, they want to make sure that a pet will be able to hold aggro against a Hunter in solo play. Even more so, a tanking pet should ideally be able to effectively offtank a 5-man instance and even main tank in some group circumstances, such as 5-man quests.
A preliminary look at both the Beastmastery tree and the Hunter pet Tenacity tree would certainly seem to bear this out. Beastmastery gets a Longevity talent which looks like it should reduce the cooldown of Growl. If it then stacks with Improved Growl in the Tenacity tree, that should make it a lot easier for tank pets to keep aggro, especially if you add the Taunt talent on top of that.
After a long Burning Crusade spent learning to kite, I know this news make me look forward to Wrath of the Lich King more than ever. It should provide Hunters both with an extra hook to grab 5-man groups, and make Beastmastery Hunters feel like effective soloers once again.
Filed under: Hunter, Analysis / Opinion, News items, Instances, Expansions, Leveling, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Roboticus Jul 24th 2008 1:08PM
I don't want to speak for locks (who don't have minimum range issues), but for a hunter, our DPS drops to 1/5th or so if the mob is in our melee range. So yes, I would say that it is fundamental to BM specced hunters that they should have a personal tank.
To your other question, a pet becomes trivial for holding aggro once you hit beginning kara gear. At that point, your only good option is to nuke before the mob reaches you. Fortunately, in t5 gear or better, you can 3-5 shot most mobs. If I send my pet in at the same time as I start casting steady shot, most of the time my pet doesn't hit the target before it's dead.
here is a thought Jul 24th 2008 12:53PM
the thing the QQs need to realize is that for the most part, hunter without pet is as good as dead, the pet is an essential part of the class, only locks come close to understanding, and most of the time their DoTs eliminate the need for a minion to get involved. But hunters can hardly hand to hand, and there is the min distance for our shots, so when our pet does not hold aggro and keep the mob beyond that min distance then 90% of our damage potential is lost.
STereo Jul 24th 2008 1:08PM
If they are going to allow non-heroic pet tanks this fix is absolutely needed. But I hardly care. The class is so broken that pet aggro is the least of our problems, forget the broken mana regen, traps, shot clipping, super delicate pets, etc.. etc... They must fix hunters for arena.
Jeremy Jul 25th 2008 7:42PM
"They must fix hunters for arena."
No, they should put Arenas on their own servers so that it stops f-ing up the PvE game.
STereo Jul 24th 2008 1:25PM
Anyway, it sounds like pet tanks are going to be pointless. An off tank for a 5 man? Who does that? You use one tank and some cc. If he can't tank a non-heroic 5 man or off tank a 10 man then this tree is a waste of time.
kujo Jul 24th 2008 1:40PM
As a Hunter myself:
a) No other class has any right to bitch about this. I leave myself out of other class's grievances (yes rogues, your Vanish is broken...we get it). Please do the same for us.
b) I never once thought pet aggro was 'broken' in the first place.
c) MM Hunters: You SHOULD be out-aggroing your pets, so this really isn't even an issue for you.
d) BM Hunters: If your pet can't hold aggro, then you need to learn NOT to push all-out burst damage right from the get go, and/or take a harder look at your itemization of gear (IE: Yes, there IS gear for either MM or BM specs.) and for the love of all that is holy: Do not use a cat as your 'tank'.
Seriously tho. I don't even think this is an issue for Blizzard to address; now, or in WoTLK.
They are already giving Hunter pets talent trees. If you want a tanking pet, then tame the respective pet family, spec it for tanking and away you go.
BM Hunters look as if they might even be able to off-tank a 5-man instance, while MM Hunters stand to have a pet that will hold mobs in their place, despite massive DPS while soloing.
Note: Right now, I'm specced MM. Yes, aggro gets pulled. However, it's still VERY few and far between that said mob even gets NEAR me...before it falls.
To be completely honest. Yes, I believe Hunters ARE over-powered in a lot of respects. This kind of 'buff', as it were, is not even really needed. And its actually one of many things which piss me off about playing the class. I love a challenge, and I love the way my Hunter plays right now. I loved it even before the Arcane Shot/Aimed Shot buffs. Please, Blizzard. STOP MAKING US EVEN MORE EZ-MODE!!!!
Mullinator Jul 24th 2008 1:56PM
You must not have the greatest gear.
I can pull aggro from my pet quite often with ONLY auto-shot.
The problem with pet aggro right now is that the better the hunters gear means the harder their pet can hold aggro.
Essentially increasing a hunters gear nerfs their pets tanking abilities which is a core aspect of hunter design. That is where the problem lies. Blizzard has in the past claimed that pets growl scaled to the hunters AP to make sure this wasn't a problem. Yet after multiple tests it was found to be bullshit. Now they acknowledge this was a problem.
Yes pet aggro is a problem right now and Blizzard has just come out and agreed. Yet here are all these people saying that isn't the case?
morlog Jul 24th 2008 3:48PM
Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance here, but why not use a cat for tanking? I would have thought the extra dps would actually help it to hold aggro?
Nick S Jul 24th 2008 5:35PM
the original poster of this reply thread doesn't seem to understand how pet aggro works.
YES you will pull aggro off your pet with a single autoshot crit, even if you wait for growl, at around 2000 AP in BM spec, using the crossbow of relentless strikes. hardly an unreasonably high gear level.
YES you should use a cat, ravager, or windserpent, because after the boar nerf, they generate the most threat per second! there are NO actual tank pets at level 70 anymore; dps pets are the only ones who have any prayer of holding aggro.
MM hunters aren't the ones who are upset here, BM hunters are! we spent 41 points in a talent tree that's supposed to make our pets a fundamental part of our play style, and we pull aggro when we so much as sneeze at a mob.
Saelorn Jul 24th 2008 3:29PM
Warriors have a similar problem when it comes to tanking: the better their tank gear, the less rage they get from being hit, to the point where they can't hold aggro in a normal five-man. Their solutions is generally to ditch the shield and maybe their pants so they will get hit harder.
Hunters, if you're having a problem with your pet holding aggro, try the same thing: take off your pants and use the worst ammo you can find.
That won't treat the cause of your problem (that growl fails to scale with your attack power), but it should treat the symptoms long enough for Blizzard to get their act together.
Kyudo Jul 24th 2008 4:54PM
So I should reduce my DPS by 2% by using crappy L10 ammo just to appease a problem created by Blizz? No thanks...
Jeremy Jul 25th 2008 8:33PM
@Kyudo,
Welcome to the world of a T6 Prot warrior trying to tank Heroics.
kunukia Jul 24th 2008 4:10PM
Thank the deities! I have just slowed down, and do just fine, because I am in no big hurry, but it will be fun when I can have my pets pull aggro off of ME again.
Kyudo Jul 24th 2008 4:46PM
I applaud the introduction of the pet talent tree and this announced change. Not because I want hunters to be imba or whatever, and forget the hating, we are pretty balanced these days (except in arenas, check the stats).
However, if I want my pet to offtank, cause loads of threat, and virtually no damage, why shouldn't I be able to?
As a BM hunter, my personal dmg is nerfed anyway, about 30% of it comes from the pet. If that falls to 15% but the pet is a decentish tank (when the right pet class and specced to tank)?
Unacceptable? I dont think so, I think this is a great direction for Blizz to go in.
Breck Jul 24th 2008 4:46PM
I feel so sorry for all the Hunters that have had to learn to kite while soloing just like all of the other ranged DPS'rs. Seriously, it's heartbreaking.
Nick S Jul 24th 2008 5:26PM
hunters are the only ranged class whose ranged attack turns off when mobs get close. my favorite class is mage, and i still don't buy this whole "hunters should have to kite, too" argument.
my hunter's damage is dependent on being at range. critical strikes from my ranged shots not only help ME do damage, they help my PET do damage as well. a mage or a warlock does the same damage, spell pushback shared by all ranged classes aside, whether the mob is 30 yards away or 6 inches.
i actually happen to agree that some warlock pets could use a bit of an aggro tuneup, but that's a different issue.
on the plus side, when you get geared enough that your pet can't hold a lick of aggro, you usually kill stuff just about as it gets into your dead zone anyway.
Breck Jul 24th 2008 6:10PM
You can't just shrug off spell pushback so easily. NO ranged DPS'r can afford to stay in melee range. The difference is, everyone else has to start kiting as soon as the fight starts. Hunters at least get a couple shots off before the mob heads for them. On top of that, Hunters get some of the best kiting abilities in the game. And of course, your pet is still DPS'ing the ass off whatever is chasing you, even if you're doing nothing but running.
None of this is even factoring in the abilities you get to control your threat generation, which apparently "don't count" based on some arbitrarily created system of principles.
STereo Jul 24th 2008 6:12PM
Another point to be made here: If the warrior class or druid class had raised such an issue, it would have been investigated and addressed. But we see where the hunter class stands with Kalgan. All we get is "you're wrong it works". That's the mentality that has kept us at the bottom for 3 brackets for 4 seasons.
hoviboy Jul 25th 2008 12:53AM
Leave the arena out of this please, it has nothing to do with pets' aggro
Daggah Jul 25th 2008 9:43AM
God forbid hunters have to do more than just stand there pressing a few buttons. Gimme a break, hunters are fine.